[Car Architect]

Originally Posted by S2!!!

Let's keep the Swift debate for another day.

Ok, agreed. The reason that I brought swift into the debate is for a comparative analysis as the both cars belong to the same segment.

Originally Posted by S2!!!

I have divided your own post in two halves. Just go through the quoted text above. In each and every point stated by you, it clearly shows Bolt as more of a 'me too' product than having an absolute advantage over any other competitors. These all are your words, not mine.

I do appreciate Tata's efforts to prove its point in the market but in reality, the Bolt diesel didn't impress. Period.

The Vista did the same, so does the Liva. But both are mediocre performers when it comes to sales. My point here is that it needed a distinct USP to stand out of the crowd. Take the Elite i20 for example which is a spacious hatchback with a good engine, premium interiors, long list of equipment and arguably better exteriors too.

Also, if features and value for money alone could sell a car, our streets would have been flooded with Tata Nanos with Bluetooth, power steering + windows, etc. Hope you get my point

I have got to agree and disagree with you here. Yes, bolt doesn't have absolute advantage over it's competitors in many department and so does every other cars in the segment. They are great in some aspects and are also 'me too' cars in most of the aspects.


Lets take the previous generation i20 (I believe the i20 is a segment higher than Bolt but nevertheless it would make a good case example)

In this i'm going to dissect the actual car not the variables such as service quality, Brand Image etc.

The i Gen i20 was a great looking hatchback with quality interiors (the Fabia had even better) and best in class features. In other aspects the car was good and was also mediocre( no offense please)

The diesel engine had the best outright performance then, but when it came to ease of driving it was among the worst in it's segment (just above 1.2L Polo) Does an average Joe consider about 0-100 time??

Lets not even talk about the mediocre petrol motor.(1.2 petrol)

Then the poor stability at our highways.A serious safety issue.

The ride quality was just about OK, but was the worst in its segment.

The steering, although light was a serious drawback.

The features list was expansive but it had omitted the basic things like average fuel efficiency, DTE etc.

The car was very average as far considered in motion.

In other words the Previous gen i20 can be classified as an absolute commuter like the Bolt. It did only very few things great (there were cars which were better off in those regards to) and many things just about OK, similar to 'me too' cars.

The car sold well, because of some great aspects of it. But was it the car with the least compromises?? No.

In another case example, Punto had the best Handling, ride comfort, stability, steering, Build quality and one of the best looking exteriors. How did it fail with this many USP's ??

Now coming to Bolt, it may not be brilliant as the other cars. But the outstanding comfort that it offers over other cars can't be discounted. It does most things good such as interior quality, engines adequate performance and drive ability, feature list, stability,steering, it even offers safety features in middle variants which most other cars fail to do and where it fails miserably is the boot space, storage pockets and most importantly is its the close resemblance to the Vista.The design still is clean and contemporary and in no way will offend anyone.

As I have earlier said, the bolt's compromises aren't serious and are easily manageable.

So my point is, a car with the least amount of compromises such as the bolt can be a success if marketed properly. And also a car doesn't need to be brilliant in some aspects to win over the market.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by Rajeevraj

Is the price difference similar across the other variants of the bolt and zest?

Tata Bolt vs Zest petrol:
XE- Rs 41,000/-
XM- Rs 32,000/-
XMS- Rs 29,000/-
XT- Rs 27,000/-

Tata Bolt vs Zest diesel:
XE- Rs 37,000/-
XM- Rs 43,000/-
XMS- Rs 40,000/-
XT- Rs 31,000/-

Originally Posted by S2!!!

When I talk about finesse, I am referring to those in terms of driving and not touch and feel or features. The moment I began driving this car, I felt very uncomfortable.

I completely disagree. Spent the entire of Sunday in it and I was very comfortable. In fact, I would say that pulling the interior together is one of the Bolt's greatest steps forward (save for the long clutch). This interior is much better than that of the Swift.

the gearbox, although smooth, wasn't as slick as the Grand i10

Not as smooth as the Grand i10, but smooth nevertheless. We can't dismiss any gearbox just because it's not the benchmark. Viewed independently, the gearbox didn't have a single issue.

but unfortunately it lacks a USP

Hit the nail on the head. The Bolt does a lot of things right, and is quite an all-rounder. However, in the crowded B2 hatchback space, and especially as a Tata product (carrying the baggage of the brand), it needed better positioning.

Pricing it on the par with the Swift isn't going to take it anywhere, even though it offers so much more in several areas.

Originally Posted by gauravdgr8

I mean, what were we expecting in terms of pricing. Bolt to be priced @ 3.99 lacs for a petrol and diesel <5 lacs.

Kindly keep the sarcasm off Team-BHP, we don't appreciate it on this forum.

Back to the point, my first post proves that the Bolt's pricing is ridiculous vis a vis the Zest. Comparing top variant to top variant, the Zest comes across as a steal, and the Bolt over-priced.

Why don't we question Maruti & Hyundai for having a 1 lac+ difference in the Swift & Dzire

Please state facts. The difference between the Swift & Dzire - variant to variant - is 50 - 60K (not over 1 lakh).

A person who can afford a Bolt, can also think to buy a Zest.

This is a very sad strategy. Of course, as you say, if the Bolt's only purpose is to push sales toward the Zest, then it doesn't need to exist in the first place.

We talk about long term reliability and after Sales. I think we are still living in the Indicab and Indigo age.

Caught Aria threads recently? Or the innumerable niggles with the Safari Storme? My brother drives a Tata Nano and - for a simple car - that car has been to the workshop way more than it should have.

Originally Posted by FourWheelDrift

Could you please tell us what price premium we should pay for a turbo petrol engine over a naturally aspirated one of same size ?

Definitely not a lakh, I can tell you that! If the price difference between an N/A petrol & turbo-diesel is a lakh, I'd say about 50 - 60K between a turbo-petrol & turbo-diesel.

Originally Posted by apachelongbow

The only negative I could gather from this review is that performance may not be all that stellar, considering the low state of tune on the diesel and the kerb weight.

Just to clarify: The Bolt doesn't feel underpowered in any way.

Originally Posted by gauravdgr8

The Vista is still very much there. TDI for the taxi market.

The Vista TDI is one of the worst selling hatchbacks in the market today. Having a product on sale for the heck of it does Tata no good. Quoting an old post of mine:

Originally Posted by GTO

Tata is not only making its customers confused, but is looking confused itself. Get this:

Indica variants (All info from their website):

eXeta : 8 variants
Indica eV2 : 4 variants
Indica V2 N/A : 4 variants

Thus, you have a whopping 16 variants of the 15 year old Indica!

Indigo:

eCS : 9 variants across THREE different engine options

XL : 3 variants

In all, the ol' Indigo has 12 variants!

Manza

8 variants (the only sensibly positioned car here). 4 each for petrol & diesel.

Vista

TWELVE variants with FOUR engine options.

If I were a potential customer, I'd be sure as hell confused in a Tata showroom . I mean, seriously, does the Vista need FOUR engine options?

Meanwhile, Maruti keeps it simple. The Swift has 3 variants (entry, mid, top) for each of the two engines (petrol, diesel). The Swift & Dzire have sold 20,000 and 10,000 units respectively in some of the recent months.

I can just imagine the scene:

Tata Junior : Sir, our sales are down / flat in the last quarter
Tata Senior : Lets release some more engine options and variants. That should solve matters for sure.

I have the Vista Refresh with the Hydraulic Steering and recently test drove the Bolt and the Zest. Believe me, the steering felt too light for city driving. The heavy steering on my Vista gives immense confidence. Although parking with EPS is lot easier.

The Bolt's EPS is what the market prefers. And yes, it is the one of the best EPS among hatchbacks today.

Originally Posted by AVR

Not OT but maybe they want people to move to the Zest!
Reminds me of a very interesting marketing gimmick that will probably make sense here: Link

So maybe they don't want people buying the XT Bolt but move to the Zest XT!

Nice one, thanks for sharing.

I doubt this is true though. Right now, Tata's sales are so low that they really can't afford to be thinking of a secondary sales strategy of transferring Bolt customers to the Zest. Their passenger car business is in the doldrums today.

They should do everything they can to maximise the sales of these cars individually.

Originally Posted by thoma

I am wondering if the reflection could be from the glass window rather than from the ORVM itself? Either way, I agree it is distracting for the driver and no way we can drive with windows down in the scorching sun.

Originally Posted by itsashishsharma

Spot on. It can't be the ORVM, its physics, it got to be the window glass.

Thanks for pointing out the error, guys. Will have it corrected.

[FourWheelDrift]

Originally Posted by GTO

Definitely not a lakh, I can tell you that! If the price difference between an N/A petrol & turbo-diesel is a lakh, I'd say about 50 - 60K between a turbo-petrol & turbo-diesel.

Thanks GTO.

In absence of Bolt having an equivalent NA petrol, you seems to suggest that the Bolt Revotron (turbo-petrol) should be priced at some significant premium above other equivalent hatches with 1.2 NA petrol engines.

In reality, is it ?

Cheers,

FourWheelDrift

[DieselWheels]

Excellent review mate, Did you feel the same level of confidence while attacking bends, which the Punto exudes. I have driven a friends Vista Q-Jet and it did not have such stability, which I feel in the Punto.The Punto feels planted and stable.
Does the Vistas' woes continue to show up in the Bolt?

[Car Architect]

Happened to test drive the TATA BOLT.

Here are my Observations:

Exterior design:

The overall design comes clean and contemporary.Although sharing most of it's design with Vista, the Bolt manages to look apart with some subtle styling cues the side profile notwithstanding. But I have to concede that, Bolt doesn't have stylish factor that cars like swift and Grand i10 possess.

The paint quality is top notch and build precision tolerance level is the best seen in a Tata. Build quality is typical tata with the doors closing with a solid thud albeit not European thud.

Interiors:

The interiors look and feel very European, inputs from design studios in UK and Italy clearly seen. Material quality, fit and finish are really good. This the best seen ever in a TATA although still a level down when comparing to Hyundai (in terms of overall quality).

For example, the plastics covering the top of the steering console, door latches, power window switches, fog lamp switches and the 12v PowerPoint cover feel out of place in the car. There are many nice touches such as the soft action engaging hand brake, the music systems control buttons and the indicator stalks reek of quality. To summarize, with Bolt, the interiors aren't a deal breaker anymore.

The dashboard wears a black and brown combo color palette. The design and the color provide a sporty ambiance inside the car. Despite the darker shades the interiors don't feel claustrophobic , thanks to the generous greenhouse. Overall the interiors of bolt are a very nice place to be.

The fronts seats have a healthy travel range and provide good lateral support. The driver's seat has a healthy height adjustment.
The steering is a notch smaller to my liking and it comes with rake adjustment. The MID is a very comprehensive unit. The footwell is reasonably spacious but it doesn't come with a dead pedal and there is no space to rest your left foot. Overall ergonomics is satisfactory with mostly everything falling to your hand. The visibility is on par with the other hatches and the mirrors are of adequate size and they keep you well informed about the action behind.


The car has ample legroom both at the front and the back. The generous cabin width makes life easy for the middle passenger at the back and with the perfectly reclined seat angle the bolt's rear seat is a fantastic space to be. Under thigh support is satisfactory and the headroom is also decent. The main drawback is the firm cushioning of the seats and headrest.

Storage space is a sore point in the Bolt. Other than the massive glove box and the pull out drawer there isn't any defined storage points. The entire car has a single cup holder ahead of the gear lever. Also the boot space of 210 liters is amongst the smallest from the segment.

I didn't get the chance to Test the added features in the Harman system of the bolt. The sound quality, going by my uncle's Zest is outstanding. The UI is easy to use also and the system has many nice features.

Engine and Gearbox:

The ubiquitous Multijet engine churns out 74bhp and 190nm of torque. The engine is very well refined and the NVH levels are very low. Compared to the vista, this one felt as if it belonged to the different league.

The engine has ample low end torque which made the drivability inside the city a bliss. Downshifts inside the city are limited, you can even move off in the second gear from the standstill. The engine's tractability felt very similar to the Vista. Acceleration was very linear and brisk throughout the turbo range.The performance can be termed adequate and it won't set any new drag records. Overall a very well executed tuning of the Multijet engine that will please the majority of the population.

The clutch pedal operation was on the lighter side although I didn't find it's travel range too long. The gearbox was were very slick in operation and the throws were short.

Ride, Handling and Braking:

Tata has made a significant improvement in this department, even though the yesteryear Tata were competent in this area but the difference is still perceivable. By providing stiffer suspension setup the car feel much matured and confident around the bends. The pitching of the nose under hard acceleration is completely eliminated, a trait which the vista suffered from.

The ride quality, despite being stiff is very compliant. Although being far from plush (the vista provided it) the ride quality won't make you feel every bumps and potholes in the road. The high speed stability has improved
over it's predecessor, undulating roads don't bother it either.

The steering is nice and light within the city and weigh up very well out on the highway, don't expect fiesta like feedback from it.The brake have adequate bite and stopping power is on par with the others.


What's great about Bolt:-

- the interior space
- NVH management
- expansive feature list
- the ride quality
- safety even on the middle variant.
- exterior build

What's good about Bolt

- competent handling
- interior quality and build
- engines, their performance and drivability
- steering and braking.

What could have been better about the bolt

- exterior design
- boot space
- storage areas
- outright punch from both the engines.

Overall, a well rounded of product having the least amount of compromises.Will be ideal for a person looking for a comfortable city hatchback that wears a no nonsense attire.

[aniketi]

To make Bolt different from the competition, Tata should bring AMT in both Petrol and Diesel Bolt. It will give the USP it needed and will differentiate it from the crowd. Automatic is the future in India as all cities getting crowded every month and traffic is becoming unbearable. AMT has ease of automatic and FE and price (almost) of the manual. I guess it will certainly help Tata to increase the sales numbers for sure.

Off topic: Even if Tata educate all their dealers and improve on A.S.S. as Maruti and Hyundai have, sell will increase 20-25 % without doing anything. They currently have good models which can sell more for sure. Just that their dealers are too careless and behaves as if they are doing favor on us by selling the car, sad but true :(

[v_safari]

Test Drive :
I loved the hatch. It is very comfortable to be in. Clearly better interior design than the Swift and other hatches. I20 is good too (only in interiors).
Ride handling is to my liking, neither too soft nor too hard. It is optimally tuned. For me 90% times I'd be using it is for home-office runs. For highways I have Safari.
Looks great, I love it. Few of my friends did not like it much.
People still have this thought in their mind (TATA is for trucks and this is a taxi)
Looks are subjective but Bolt clearly looks too good to be called a taxi.


Service :
I've been to Concorde Service Center Patparganj (Delhi), and I've seen more Zests than Bolt there.
I own a Safari Storme. Overall both the Bolt and Zest's owners whom I interacted with were happy with their cars. Many had migrated from other similar segment cars i.e. Swift, Figo etc.
What I felt at the A.S.S. is that bol, zest and storme owners are treated very well and the SAs try to listen to the problems if any from the owners, and they try their best to fix everything.

One question : Any idea if and when TATA is planning to launch the 90 HP Bolt ?? I wish they launch it soon. Or the BOLT 120 hp turbo petrol

[Nissan1180]

I had a good look at the Bolt while booking my nano, and there are a few things which I would like to share.

1. The Bolt does not look like the Vista - at least not in person. The doors, the hood, the boot, the fenders- every panel looks different. I have attached an image ( sourced from here) that can enable you to visually compare the two products.

1. The interiors are much much better than that of the Swift. The silence at idle is better as well. I am not acquainted with the Polo or the new I20- but the interiors feel richer than the i10 at least. In fact, when you look at it with an unbiased perspective, this car looks like a complete premium hatchback- it does not miss out on space, features and aesthetics.
2. The design of the engine compartment is really good- there's enough space to access all the components and this will be a boon 5 years down the line if you want to move to a FNG after the warranty gets over.
3. The paint quality is better than most cars in the segment- at least the shine is more distinctive. I am not sure how they managed this but the paint looks really elegant even from a distance-the gloss is richer.

If you removed the badge on the hood, this is a car that would have had a long waiting list.

I hope someday this company would be able to regain the trust and faith that their customers lost in them. I had no interest in buying a premium hatch, but after paying close to 3 L for a Nano, I sometimes think that I could have paid 2 L more to get the Bolt-I try not to think in that manner, but the car looks so good in person that my rationality is challenged by it.

[gopa99]

I am waiting to see more pictures of the interiors a.k.a seats, door sils and boot of the Bolt, especially users after TD saying it as rich in quality and feel.

[kaviprem]

Is there a variant called "SWX" ? I am seeing this car, TATA BOLT SWX" for the past 2 days near Marathahalli area, the same car with "L" board, around the same time [morning 9:00AM] going towards Marathahalli-Sarjapur Ring Road.
I see the "KHT Motors" sticker in the rear windshield.

Prem.

[revvhed]

I really like the look of the Bolt, particularly the rear. In fact, I don't care much for the tail lamp design of the Zest. I feel they look out of place and stuck on. That said, how much worse is the ride quality of the Bolt as compared to the Zest ?
I've come to the conclusion that the most important things needed in a car in Mumbai if it is to be a daily driver, are plush ride quality and good ground clearance.
I can't believe I just said that ! Am I being practical ?
I must be getting old.

[VeluM]

Originally Posted by revvhed

I really like the look of the Bolt, particularly the rear. In fact, I don't care much for the tail lamp design of the Zest. I feel they look out of place and stuck on. That said, how much worse is the ride quality of the Bolt as compared to the Zest ?
I've come to the conclusion that the most important things needed in a car in Mumbai if it is to be a daily driver, are plush ride quality and good ground clearance.
I can't believe I just said that ! Am I being practical ?
I must be getting old.

I don't know about the ride quality vs the Bolt, but you will not have anything to complain about in the Zest. Also, for the very small premium over the Bolt you get a much more practical boot, better performance from the diesel, and a few extra tid-bits that add to the feel-good factor. This is comparing XT to XT.

The Bolt has a firmer ride, and going by my experience with the roads in Mumbai, that is not a good thing. The Zest rides brilliantly and handles respectably well. In short, Bolt only if you have a non-negotiable size constraint/requirement

PS. Yes you are being practical (Sacrilege!!), but you'll be surprised at how much fun (relatively) the Zest can be too. More so the Bolt probably with the firmer setup.

[cjsarora]

Indica (top model) or Bolt (Base model)
What is the more preferred option guys?

Usage would be normal home usage like getting veggies, dropping kids to school, etc. Primarily would be driven by driver.

[AutoIndian]

Originally Posted by cjsarora

Indica (top model) or Bolt (Base model)
What is the more preferred option guys?

Usage would be normal home usage like getting veggies, dropping kids to school, etc. Primarily would be driven by driver.

When you are comparing the above two cars, I assume both meet your requirements and are at more or less same price level. Since your car will be chaffeur driven most of the times, back seat comfort is of prime importance. My suggestion would be check out both the cars for that. Also Bolt being a new car will have lesser depreciation and is likely to fetch better resale value. All the goodies of the top end variant will be of little use as you are not going to be in drivers seat most of the times to enjoy those features. Bolt is rarely seen on the roads, whereas the Vista is very commonplace especially it being preferred by the cabbies.

My suggestion would be go for the Bolt

[cjsarora]

Originally Posted by AutoIndian

When you are comparing the above two cars, I assume both meet your requirements and are at more or less same price level. Since your car will be chaffeur driven most of the times, back seat comfort is of prime importance. My suggestion would be check out both the cars for that. Also Bolt being a new car will have lesser depreciation and is likely to fetch better resale value. All the goodies of the top end variant will be of little use as you are not going to be in drivers seat most of the times to enjoy those features. Bolt is rarely seen on the roads, whereas the Vista is very commonplace especially it being preferred by the cabbies.

My suggestion would be go for the Bolt

Thanks a ton.
Can you enlighten me towards the engines? I mean whether the same engine is doing the duty in both /some different tuned versions/ or completely different engines altogether. Any difference in the refinement levels??