[ethanhunt123]

Originally Posted by hemanth.anand

Sorry, But I'm not interested in engaging in any kind of brand wars. Imported brands definitely score high with finish, weight, sound insulation etc.

Neither am I interested in praising one brand over the other. I just wanted to know which ISI helmet would you consider as safe as imported DOT/ECE helmets since you are so confident about them.

Originally Posted by hemanth.anand

I'm not qualified to perform comparative tests and show it to you. Also I do not know if weight alone dictates safety. If you are qualified in this subject, please show me that an ISI standard helmet (not just marked) is unsafe compared to a ECE22.05 standard helmet. Only thing I know, after having read both the ISI and the ECE22.05 standards, they are almost same. If only we had some NCAP kind of test results available.

Sir - we live in India. We can have all sorts of rules on paper - but we know how they are actually put on practice. If we were following all the rules in Indian Constitution/law book - we would be probably the No1 country in all meausres in the world. Anyway - my point was simple - i would not trust my head with the unsafe "ISI - marked" helmets - i would trust my ECE/DOT certified Shoei GT-Air instead.

Originally Posted by hemanth.anand

Anyway, If I had a Arai/Shoei/Schuberth/Shark, I would go to a local sticker guy and get that ISI mark for the sake of our Police. Or better, I would get it painted with a stencil. Let's see what the Transport department replies to Bangalore Police department's request for clarification regarding this topic

Never do that please. Sticking a fake ISI sticker can land you in a much bigger soup. I would rather consider 100 bucks fine as the cost of keeping my head safe rather than indulge in this fraud.

Besides i dont have much hope from Transport Deptt - they will either pass the buck or insist on following the rulebook.

Originally Posted by payeng

Other way would be to get the Helmet brands willing to sell in India get the ISI Registration done.

THH Helmets (international brand) that are sold in India, is manufactured in India (Somewhere in Maharashtra if I know correctly) and are also ISI Marked.

The other day, I saw a ROYAL ENFIELD Branded OEM helmet on a rider which had both DOT and ISI Marks on it.

It would never work with the big brands like Arai, Shoei, Schuberth, Bell etc given the volumes they sell in India at the price points. Heck i doubt if even HJC would agree. THH etc are not really big brands - plus they sell at price points which can drive enough volume to justify the added cost of ISI certification. (Shoei/Schueberth donnt even have official distributors in India - most ppl pick it up abroad or import it)

As far as DOT sticker on some of these helmets are concerned - one thing to keep in mind is that DOT is self declaration with random testing. Given that this RE helmet would probably never get sold in US - therefore never picked up for random testing by DOT - its up to you to belive they actually adhere to DOT standards.

[binand]

Originally Posted by Jaggu

I have a humble MT Revenge which i bought 3 years back for 5000 INR, it had 5 star rating from snell at that time, and is ECE as well as DOT certified. So all imported helmets are NOT 15k or above and they are very reasonable even today at 6-7k INR.

I too have a Sol that I paid 5K for, about 2 years back. :-) I mentioned 15K only because a previous post mentioned that number.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motor...ml#post4344386

[payeng]

Originally Posted by ethanhunt123

It would never work with the big brands like Arai, Shoei, Schuberth, Bell etc given the volumes they sell in India at the price points. Heck i doubt if even HJC would agree.

THH etc are not really big brands - plus they sell at price points which can drive enough volume to justify the added cost of ISI certification. (Shoei/Schueberth donnt even have official distributors in India - most ppl pick it up abroad or import it).

Realistically can we expect for our Traffic Cops to identity a "Duplicate" Shuei/Shoeberth/Aroi/Boll from an "Original" Shoei/Schueberth/Arai/Bell??


If the Govt. is actually serious, they would in all probability it might ask the Brands to MAKE IN INDIA and get ISI MARKED if they want to sell in India.

Originally Posted by ethanhunt123

I would invite you to show me a "ISI" marked helmet safer than a Arai/Shoei/Schuberth/Shark.

I honestly believe that an Arai/Shoei/Schuberth/Shark/Bell would be more safer than a Studds / Steelbird. But I also believe that Studds / Steelbird helmets are not bad.. at least for sane/decent riding Speeds.

In fact the higher priced ones (around 2K) are pretty decent with decent padding to boot. A Studds Shifter Model (Rs.2K) once saved my life in a crash. Had the helmet not taken the impact that day, it would have been really serious for me.

But then, I don't ride a "SUPERBIKE" at capable of crazy (illegal??) speeds. I was on an 150 cc Impulse and had crashed at around 75 Kph.

[ethanhunt123]

Originally Posted by payeng

Realistically can we expect for our Traffic Cops to identity a "Duplicate" Shuei/Shoeberth/Aroi/Boll from an "Original" Shoei/Schueberth/Arai/Bell??


If the Govt. is actually serious, they would in all probability it might ask the Brands to MAKE IN INDIA and get ISI MARKED if they want to sell in India.

Going by that logic - how will the cops distinguish between a genuine ISI sticker and fake ISI sticker ? The kind of helmets i see sporting ISI mark - gives me a lot of confidence

Originally Posted by payeng

I honestly believe that an Arai/Shoei/Schuberth/Shark/Bell would be more safer than a Studds / Steelbird. But I also believe that Studds / Steelbird helmets are not bad.. at least for sane/decent riding Speeds.

In fact the higher priced ones (around 2K) are pretty decent with decent padding to boot. A Studds Shifter Model (Rs.2K) once saved my life in a crash. Had the helmet not taken the impact that day, it would have been really serious for me.

But then, I don't ride a "SUPERBIKE" at capable of crazy (illegal??) speeds. I was on an 150 cc Impulse and had crashed at around 75 Kph.

Even those coconut shell type helmets might save someone's life in an accident - it all depends on impact force, angle & hundred other factors. Please don't assume that Arai/Shoei etc will only be useful at high speeds - infact most of helmet testing is done simulating european highway speeds (less than 100-120kmph).

Bottom line is simple - if someone is happy with their ISI certified helmets (most of which dont even come with a proper size chart for eg) - all power to them. Please dont force people using better helmets to downgrade to them just because of some stupid rule - especially when it concerns one's own safety.

[LoneRidder]

Mod note: Post moved. Please use search and post in appropriate threads. Thanks.

Originally Posted by LoneRidder

The high court held that motorists should wear helmets as prescribed under rule 230 of the Karnataka Motor Vehicles Rules. The court stated that a helmet should have ISI number (IS 4151:1993) mentioned on it.

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/...wears-isi.html

More crackdown to follow...!

Bengaluru traffic police have turned over-zealous with their crackdown on substandard helmets by suggesting that ones that meet global standards - such as United States' DoT and Europe's ECE - are not acceptable. Only riders who wear ISI-marked helmets will not be penalized when the rule comes into force from February 1, police said.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...w/62612553.cms

[Rahul Rao]

The police are following rules, as of now they have decided not to confiscate but to give a suspended challan awaiting the department of transportation reply. It is now upto the relevant department of the transport ministry to add other standards ie. DOT or ECE etc. Note that the world over brake parts have only DOT certification. In legal language all this will only apply to private imports, and it will have some minimum price restriction eg $100 and above.
Lastly the real fault lies with the importers and distributors who have not tested the product they are trading in to Indian standards. It is their duty to do so, and after receiving the certificate get it printed on the helmet at the time of manufacture.
If a manufacturer statrs making a new car they get the testing homologation and approval done here. A car accepted in UK, Australia or any other RHD market is not automatically accepted here.

Rahul

[payeng]

Originally Posted by ethanhunt123

Going by that logic - how will the cops distinguish between a genuine ISI sticker and fake ISI sticker ?

The kind of helmets i see sporting ISI mark - gives me a lot of confidence

That (identifying Fake ISI Markings) should ideally be the NEXT STEP for the Govt. to tackle.. right? Not to mention remove ISI Marks from Brands that don't provide adequate safety.

Foreign Helmet brands (non ISI) would obviously lead to confusion whom to penalize and whom not.

Think from the Point of View of how to tackle / administer such a safety legislation in a humongous nation like India.

[Avikbrio]

Here is a nice comparison of helmets from lower to higher price range compared with their SHARP ratings. You would be surprised to find that more expensive helmets doesn't automatically assure you a higher safety rating than the lower priced one.

http://blm.io/blog/motorcycle-helmet-safety-price/

[Sheel]

Came across this on FB. I hope some sense prevailed and they finally are able to find out as to if the Snell/DOT/ECE are better than ISI ones.

[AtheK]

Received this over whatsapp, posting here to just lighten the mood a bit.

I hope common sense prevails, and international standards are accepted and respected.

[Ricci]

Originally Posted by payeng

Realistically can we expect for our Traffic Cops to identity a "Duplicate" Shuei/Shoeberth/Aroi/Boll from an "Original" Shoei/Schueberth/Arai/Bell??

If the Govt. is actually serious, they would in all probability it might ask the Brands to MAKE IN INDIA and get ISI MARKED if they want to sell in India.

But then, I don't ride a "SUPERBIKE" at capable of crazy (illegal??) speeds. I was on an 150 cc Impulse and had crashed at around 75 Kph.

The volumes are too low for the majors to setup manufacturing in India. It seems car and bike enthusiasts are only meant to have pipe dreams, forever obstructed by red tape and artificially raised prices.

So you rode/crashed at 75km/h? You've then already done the illegal thing - as per MVA, the all India limit for 2 wheelers is 50km/h. That aside, do I see a chip on the shoulder and an axe to grind against superbikers?

Originally Posted by Rahul Rao

The police are following rules, as of now they have decided not to confisticate but to give a suspended challan awaiting the department of transportations reply. It is now upto the relevant department of the transport ministry to add other standards ie. DOT or ECE etc.
Rahul

We Indians are very good at 'following' rules. Just like our security guards. I asked them about their routine frisking and checking - they say "we have orders from superiors , check everyone and every vehicle, opening the trunk and bonnet." So they do it dutifully, opening every car's trunk and bonnet, giving cursory look , in their mind they're doing their job, in reality they're only superficially viewing the contents of the trunk or engine bay - they don't even check bags or other stuff in the boot, and until and unless they saw an object that could only be a security thread - like red sticks tied together with a clock ticking away, they wouldn't even know what they're supposed to look for. Our cops are largely like that - automatons, drones in flesh and bone, unthinking, obeying.

The law is written in words and letters, but the intent is what's the spirit of the law, whereas our government and cops , automatons that they are, stick to the letter of the law in flagrant violation of the spirit of the law. I can only hope the senior officials in the police and transport ministry are more capable of using the education they received and view this matter in the spirit of the law and declare no-persecution of other-name certified gear.

Originally Posted by payeng

That (identifying Fake ISI Markings) should ideally be the NEXT STEP for the Govt. to tackle.. right? Not to mention remove ISI Marks from Brands that don't provide adequate safety.

Foreign Helmet brands (non ISI) would obviously lead to confusion whom to penalize and whom not.

I guess it won't be long before the same government cites 'make in India' as reason to allow only ISI helmets, safety be damned, agenda rules over people's lives.

Originally Posted by payeng

Think from the Point of View of how to tackle / administer such a safety legislation in a humongous nation like India.

Are you also going to argue that teaching common sense and good traffic/driving sense into a huge population like ours is impractical, so forget about driver training and make even more traffic rules and increase fines for violating them, as if that will make roads safer?

[payeng]

Originally Posted by Ricci

That aside, do I see a chip on the shoulder and an axe to grind against superbikers?

You Sure? You should check my CV

Originally Posted by Ricci

We Indians are very good at 'following' rules. Just like our security guards. I asked them about their routine frisking and checking - they say "we have orders from superiors , check everyone and every vehicle, opening the trunk and bonnet." So they do it dutifully, opening every car's trunk and bonnet, giving cursory look , in their mind they're doing their job, in reality they're only superficially viewing the contents of the trunk or engine bay - they don't even check bags or other stuff in the boot, and until and unless they saw an object that could only be a security thread - like red sticks tied together with a clock ticking away, they wouldn't even know what they're supposed to look for. Our cops are largely like that - automatons, drones in flesh and bone, unthinking, obeying.

BINGO. You have said it.

That's exactly why "No ISI Mark = Fine" can be understood and implemented by our "Friendly" Neighborhood Policeman. Expecting each and every policeman to distinguish a genuine reputed branded helmet would actually end up leaving the law to manipulation.

Rather than cursing, I would like to hear solutions being proposed for this issue.

[theexperthand]

Originally Posted by payeng

Realistically can we expect for our Traffic Cops to identity a "Duplicate" Shuei/Shoeberth/Aroi/Boll from an "Original" Shoei/Schueberth/Arai/Bell??

Think practically - how many fake 'Shuei/Shoeberth/Aroi/Boll' helmets will be here when compared to countless fake ISI marked helmets? I personally find this a lame argument for not allowing originals.

If the Govt. is actually serious, they would in all probability it might ask the Brands to MAKE IN INDIA and get ISI MARKED if they want to sell in India.

Most of the brands do not have any official distributor in India. I have no problem in making ISI a benchmark, but just because some one is more cautious about own safety and want to buy a good helmet which costs a lot from outside of India, it is not fair to punish him\her by making it illegal to wear it.

I honestly believe that an Arai/Shoei/Schuberth/Shark/Bell would be more safer than a Studds / Steelbird. But I also believe that Studds / Steelbird helmets are not bad.. at least for sane/decent riding Speeds.

There is no question that the current lot of ISI certified helmets are not bad, when compared to the 100 rs helmets or other non ISI marked helmets. As I said, they are good to be a baseline. But let us please do not make them the upper boundary value also.

An Impulse is a good bike for trail riding when we compare to what is available currently in India. But if you have the option to choose a bike from Suzuki DR-Z400, KTM EXC 250, Kawasaki KLR 250 and Impusle, will you still choose impulse? (for a moment, let us forget about service costs, spare parts availability etc and just focus on the ability of these bikes to ride over different terrains).

In fact the higher priced ones (around 2K) are pretty decent with decent padding to boot. A Studds Shifter Model (Rs.2K) once saved my life in a crash. Had the helmet not taken the impact that day, it would have been really serious for me.

Good that the helmet saved you - but is it a limiting factor to buy something better, if you can afford it?

My first helmet was a Steelbird make, then moved to a MPA make - both were open face, ISI marked ones. But when I realized the safety threat of not wearing a full face helmet, I moved to a full face helmet. My first full face was a GP-ONE and I chose it because it felt much better when compared to the other Studds\Steelbird\Vega helmets in the market. To boot, it was ISI certified too. Next came the MPA-AGV, which was again made in India with ISI mark and it was again much better than the other ISI branded helmets available in India. But strangely, I do not see any more of these premium ISI helmets. The now available upper spectrum of ISI helmets - the Steelbird Air, Vega Axor etc dont even hold a patch when it come to build quality and padding comfort, when compared to GP One/MPA-AGV etc.

Now I wear a SOL helmet, which again blows any ISI marked helmet out there when it comes to build quality, padding comfort,visor quality etc. I am also reasonably sure that it is at least as safe as the best ISI marked helmet out there and in all probability will fare better than any ISI marked helmets in market now- so, just that it is not ISI certified is a reason to deny me wearing one?

But then, I don't ride a "SUPERBIKE" at capable of crazy (illegal??) speeds. I was on an 150 cc Impulse and had crashed at around 75 Kph.

To each his own - While you may be comfortable riding a dual sport\off road bike at 75 KMPH wearing your studds shifter, I find it comfortable riding wearing my SOL helmet and full riding gear (Mesh jacket, leather gauntlet gloves, riding pants and boots), be it my Duke or Scooty Zest - every single day, when I ride to work.

Bottom line is, different people have different priorities and views about safety. While current crop of ISI helmets are a good enough standard to be a baseline, please do not stop people who want to use better stuff from doing so. Live and let live.

--Anoop

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by payeng

That's exactly why "No ISI Mark = Fine" can be understood and implemented by our "Friendly" Neighborhood Policeman.

Have to agree with you on this point. Either there has to be some simple system in place, or riders should be left alone if they wear decent helmets.

Cant expect a normal policeman to understand all about imported helmet brands and international standards.

Originally Posted by payeng

Rather than cursing, I would like to hear solutions being proposed for this issue.

Most stupidest solution - Which sparked this thread and is easiest to implement - Ban everything else except Indian helmets with ISI.

Best and hardest solution, and one which might never happen because it requires some work from the Government and BSI - Start some sort of homologation procedures for imported brands to sell in India. (Like ARAI does for cars). Let the brands sport ISI stickers over and above the ECE and DOT ones.

What will happen to existing imported helmets? Well, they'll be useless. But - if the policies are sorted and I can go ahead and buy a legal SOL/ MT/ HJC/ AGV in India - I don't mind scrapping the existing one.

But - If they expect me to ride around a Vega / Studds / Steelbird just due to their ignorance and enforcement of archaic rules - I'd rather pay the fine and wear a safer helmet.

Originally Posted by payeng

But then, I don't ride a "SUPERBIKE" at capable of crazy (illegal??) speeds. I was on an 150 cc Impulse and had crashed at around 75 Kph.

Cant help but smile at the irony of this finger pointing.

Even 75 kph is 25kph over the speed limits. To make matters worse, 75kph was crazy in that scenario as it ended up in a crash.

[payeng]

For the sake of Implementation of the law: The Best Solution according to me would be to ask the brands selling to be sold in India get Registered with Bureau of Indian Standards.

For the sake of Proper Implementation of Safety Standards: The other step would be to CLEAN the market of dubious quality ISI marked helmets/brands.

Originally Posted by theexperthand

Think practically - how many fake 'Shuei/Shoeberth/Aroi/Boll' helmets will be here when compared to countless fake ISI marked helmets? I personally find this a lame argument for not allowing originals.

That's not the point. The issue that I foresee is leaving the law open to interpretation and hence opportunity of misuse/exploitation.



P.S: Needless to say that I have no doubts over the safety provided by these reputed brands. I am only trying to highlight the other side of the problem that the Govt. has to deal with.