Team-BHP - The Riding Gear thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad (Post 5283754)

Some armour is absolutely interchangeable depending on its shape and size. Elbow and knee armour is often interchangeable... for example. Should not be a reason to choose or reject gear

Hey !
Yes, Shoulder Elbow and Knee are often interchangeable only and only if the protectors has a S/E/K. While some protectors that you get for example the one that I got with the RE only has S and should be only used at Shoulder.

While the elbow one has E/K which certainly can be interchangeably used for either elbow or knee.

BUT in no way can a Hip protector marked "H" be used as a chest protectors, as per CE standards.

Eg:
1) Hip/Knee/Shoulder/Elbow all come under CE EN 1621-1 and these based on its form factor and approval by CE be interchangeably used
2) Back comes under CE EN 1621-2
3) Chest comes under CE EN 1621-3

Now, one cannot interchangeably use protectors across these standards (within the same standard is acceptable and you also get protectors which are S/E/K/H), but across standards is UNACCEPTABLE.

Check reputed brands like Knox Sastec D3o Safetech you will never find a protector that is certified for both Hip and Chest.

This is also because the parameters for each standard is different.
Eg: For back protectors CE EN 1621-2 (Back) the residual force should be <8KN (for L2).

For CE EN 1621-1 (S/E/K/H) the residual force should be <20KN (for L2) without any criteria for force distribution (it only considers force transmission) which in not the case for chest (EN 1621-3) which has a major parameter of force distribution.

So again what RE is doing is completely fooling its customers. Also because if you check any brand buying a chest protector is expensive. So may be a way of cost cutting.

I am not sure but doing something like this in EU would have landed them in trouble as it would be rather illegal.

Anyway, I am still waiting to get a revert from them and resolution which could be to give me a legit chest protectors as per CE standards. Not much of an ask I think.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevilisH (Post 5283686)

Update: Just received a call from Rynox. The warranty claim has been approved, and they have given a gift coupon equivalent to the jacket price to my Rynox account.

Mods: If possible, please merge this with my previous reply.

DevilisH, after you posted about your experience, I too received a call from a gentleman in Rynox. In summary,
- He acknowledged that the company made a mistake by repairing the pants and sending it back to me. They should have just sent me a new one instead.
- He has asked me to avoid using the pant that they repaired. It will get damaged again.
- They have given me a store credit equivalent to the price of the riding pants.

The thing is, I dont see the purpose of getting this store credit. I am certainly not going to order another pair of riding pants from them. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me the fourth time, well ....

I could look at
- their touring jacket, which is the Stealth Evo jacket (Rs 12,750). I will have to pay an additional Rs 4K from my pocket but the Royal Enfield Nirvik is a better jacket than that. 8 days a week.
- their mesh jackets, which are the Urban X / Tornado Pro / Air GT3. No money out of my pocket. But I already had an Air GT3 and retired it for its poorly thought out design.
- their full gauntlet Storm Evo 2 gloves. No money out of my pocket. But all the Rynox gloves that I have tried in Cochin (admittedly not a very large sample set), had quality issues with mismatched fitment. Im not confident enough to waste Rs 5,000 of store credit on that and then pay more to courier it back to Thane, for the team to check for issues that shouldnt have been there in the first place.
- their H2GO rain jacket. No money out of my pocket. But KarthikK, embrajesh and shaikhimran bought these for a monsoon ride last year and within one heavy rain, the jackets allowed water to seep in. As per the Rynox team, this was a known manufacturing issue and they replaced all the riders who complained about it. Not very confidence inspiring.

If anyone has any ideas, let me know.

Meanwhile, I believe that I have found the solution to my riding pants conundrum. Royal Enfield and A* have tied up for co-branded riding gear that includes jackets, gloves and a riding pant. I know the usual suspects on the forum will be excited to see this news. The prices are quite reasonable. I have preordered the riding pant from my local Royal Enfield store.

Quote:

Originally Posted by astrik.treks (Post 5283707)

So the RE Nirvik jacket was something that I bought, have used quite a few jackets in the past by multiple brands. RE was a brand that I had not tried so I got myself the Nirvik. They sell an XY Protector (Chinese brand) as Chest protector. But I was shocked to learn that what they are selling as chest protector is in fact a Hip protector by XY820.

I wish I had gone for a company that rather specializes in making gear and not gone for a Motorcycle company who has probably given very less though about how a gear should be constructed. Hip protector given as Chest protectors, seriously !!

astrik.treks, as someone who uses a predecessor to the excellent Nirvik (the Khardung La, in my case), I have recommended the Nirvik to several riders and all of them are very happy with the jacket. That said, you have brought up an important point and it is not something that I was aware of.

I dont mean to come across as defending the brand, but as someone who watches the riding gear market from the sidelines, I can tell you that Royal Enfield hasnt just slapped some jacket together in the back of their plant. They got their expertise from working with Revit. And then they have improved on their jackets over the years. Recently they tied up with TCX. In a few days time, we will get to hear about Royal Enfield's tie up with Alpinestars.

Also, Royal Enfield sells the Nirvik in the UK and other global markets. They wouldnt risk lawsuits by selling substandard riding gear. I say all this to assure you that it is not a shoddy product at all.

I will admit that this is the first time that I have heard of a hip protector being used as a chest protector. Lets wait to hear from Royal Enfield on the matter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by neil.jericho (Post 5284680)

Meanwhile, I believe that I have found the solution to my riding pants conundrum. Royal Enfield and A* have tied up for co-branded riding gear that includes jackets, gloves and a riding pant. I know the usual suspects on the forum will be excited to see this news. The prices are quite reasonable. I have preordered the riding pant from my local Royal Enfield store.

Good that Rynox did got back to you with a solution and have owned up to their problem. But yeah the ordeal that you have gone through is certainly worthy of a detailed inspection for Rynox.*
The guys at RE have not provided any solution, yet. I hope to hear back from them by the end of this month.*

RE getting something with Astar, sounds exciting but not quite. I mean why would I not directly buy Astar gear, which is readily available here. What's RE getting on the table here ?Even with the Revit X RE Darcha jacket getting discontinued, I mean why would anyone buy a RE x Revit and not a Revit jacket directly which was fairly priced at the same price point. Again what was RE getting on the table ?

And soon after RE discontinued their association with Revit they introduced the Nirvik (with a flawed protector choice). I mean how could one possibly go wrong about providing a Hip protector as a chest protector. Sadly, for me I only got to hear about mixed reviews about the Nirvik after my purchase. Must admit the ventilation*was really good. The fit certainly should have been better, the arms were bulky and loose which made the protectors not hold close to the body. The finish was horrible, I must have cut the overhanging threads on my jacket with scissors after coming*home. Clearly they did not learn anything from Revit.

Nirvik was the only jacket that enticed me to buy it given that it felt like it was VFM* as it claimed level 2 chest (which no other brand was offering at that time) but now I know what they did. Rest of the jackets by RE are overpriced.

- Explorer (8950/-) does not come with a basic CE back protector forget chest protectors. You have jackets like Solace Ramble or Rynox Urban/Tornado that cost as much and provide CE L2 back and CE chest protectors. The premium that they are charging is not at all justified (Not even the RE tag for me).
- RE Windfrarer and Streetwind 2 come with Knox L1 protectors which Spartan provided back in 2014. Every other brand today provides Level 2 protection. So I never really considered these.*
- RE Gloves seem good but no experience with them till now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by astrik.treks (Post 5284732)

RE getting something with Astar, sounds exciting but not quite. I mean why would I not directly buy Astar gear, which is readily available here. What's RE getting on the table here ?Even with the Revit X RE Darcha jacket getting discontinued, I mean why would anyone buy a RE x Revit and not a Revit jacket directly which was fairly priced at the same price point. Again what was RE getting on the table ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by astrik.treks (Post 5284732)

And soon after RE discontinued their association with Revit they introduced the Nirvik (with a flawed protector choice). I mean how could one possibly go wrong about providing a Hip protector as a chest protector. Sadly, for me I only got to hear about mixed reviews about the Nirvik after my purchase. Must admit the ventilation*was really good. The fit certainly should have been better, the arms were bulky and loose which made the protectors not hold close to the body. The finish was horrible, I must have cut the overhanging threads on my jacket with scissors after coming*home. Clearly they did not learn anything from Revit.

Your timelines on the Nirvik are slightly off.
- In 2016, Royal Enfield launched the Revit Darcha touring jacket. It was priced at Rs 21,999.
- In 2018, Royal Enfield launched the Khardung La touring jacket. This was a tweaked Darcha jacket but without the Revit tieup. This was priced at Rs 14,000, which is much lower that its predecessor.
- In 2020, Royal Enfield launched the Khardung La V2 touring jacket. This was a slightly improved version of the 2018 model. This is priced at Rs 12,950, which is lower that its predecessor.
- In 2020, Royal Enfield launched the Nirvik touring jacket. This was a clear improvement over the Khardung La model and is priced above the Khardung La V2. This is priced at Rs 14,950, which is higher that its predecessor.

I bought a Khardung La jacket in 2018 and have toured with it for thousands of kilometers. The Nirvik does improve on the Khardung La on the engineering front. It wasnt that Royal Enfield cut ties with Revit and then introduced the Nirvik.

From your feedback, it looks as though you bought a jacket that doesnt fit you all too well. Maybe a better fitting jacket from Royal Enfield, or any other brand, like Solace or Rynox etc, would have been a better choice for you, sizing wise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by astrik.treks (Post 5284732)

Rest of the jackets by RE are overpriced.

- Explorer (8950/-) does not come with a basic CE back protector forget chest protectors. You have jackets like Solace Ramble or Rynox Urban/Tornado that cost as much and provide CE L2 back and CE chest protectors. The premium that they are charging is not at all justified (Not even the RE tag for me).
- RE Windfrarer and Streetwind 2 come with Knox L1 protectors which Spartan provided back in 2014. Every other brand today provides Level 2 protection. So I never really considered these.*
- RE Gloves seem good but no experience with them till now.

As someone who has used riding jackets from the DSG / Cramster days, I will only say that there is more to a jacket that just having level 2 armour.

Is the jacket shaped well? Are the pockets well designed? Is it long enough? Are the sleeves too tight? What about breathability? Is the armour located at the correct position? Is the stitching giving up on its own? Will I have to keep running to the customer care team for refunds or can I just ride in peace?

Im not saying this is necessarily the case with the exact products that you mentioned, but with riding gear sold in India, more expensive products are often worth the premium that you pay for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by neil.jericho (Post 5284802)

astrik.treks, in theory, you are correct. Why buy Royal Enfield gear when you can buy A* gear instead? Also, there are riders on and off this forum, who wont wear riding gear from Royal Enfield, if they are riding, say a Honda motorcycle. And vice versa.

But in the real world, there are other aspects which prove that Royal Enfield has hit on a winning formula with their tieups with other brands.

- Stock availability
With Covid striking, the impact on production and supply chain of riding gear manufacturers was profound. If you go back through this thread, you will see that many of us had a tough time with finding good riding gear in the last two years. Importers found it difficult to get new stocks into the country. As a result, many imported riding gear products that were available in India, before Covid, were soon no longer to be found.

Since it is not public information yet, I dont want to disclose what exact models of A* are being brought to India via Royal Enfield. Hence, I will not comment more on stock availability. I will say that the prices of the Royal Enfield A* gear is reasonable and I predict that the gloves in particular, will sell very well.

Meanwhile, A*'s importer, Planet DSG has a limited number of products for sale, as compared to before.

- Reach
This is the game changer. For enthusiasts who are in the metros, finding stores that stock good riding gear is not a problem. They are a dime a dozen and every brand, both Indian and otherwise, is well represented. That isnt the necessarily case with Tier 2 / 3 cities and smaller towns. For enthusiasts in those markets, finding stores that sell A* and Revit gear, is not very easy. Whatever is available, would probably be old stock as well.

Royal Enfield is offering a range of well priced, international quality, co-branded riding gear, that is sold through their wide dealer network. The reach is why the past tie up with Revit, the current tie with TCX, and the soon to be announced tie up with A*, is important.

Your timelines on the Nirvik are slightly off.
- In 2016, Royal Enfield launched the Revit Darcha touring jacket. It was priced at Rs 21,999.
- In 2018, Royal Enfield launched the Khardung La touring jacket. This was a tweaked Darcha jacket but without the Revit tieup. This was priced at Rs 14,000, which is much lower that its predecessor.
- In 2020, Royal Enfield launched the Khardung La V2 touring jacket. This was a slightly improved version of the 2018 model. This is priced at Rs 12,950, which is lower that its predecessor.
- In 2020, Royal Enfield launched the Nirvik touring jacket. This was a clear improvement over the Khardung La model and is priced above the Khardung La V2. This is priced at Rs 14,950, which is higher that its predecessor.

I bought a Khardung La jacket in 2018 and have toured with it for thousands of kilometers. The Nirvik does improve on the Khardung La on the engineering front. It wasnt that Royal Enfield cut ties with Revit and then introduced the Nirvik.

From your feedback, it looks as though you bought a jacket that doesnt fit you all too well. Maybe a better fitting jacket from Royal Enfield, or any other brand, like Solace or Rynox etc, would have been a better choice for you, sizing wise.

As someone who has used riding jackets from the DSG / Cramster days, I will only say that there is more to a jacket that just having level 2 armour.

Is the jacket shaped well? Are the pockets well designed? Is it long enough? Are the sleeves too tight? What about breathability? Is the armour located at the correct position? Is the stitching giving up on its own? Will I have to keep running to the customer care team for refunds or can I just ride in peace?

Im not saying this is necessarily the case with the exact products that you mentioned, but with riding gear sold in India, more expensive products are often worth the premium that you pay for.

I completely get you point about the stock availability part.
I was talking more from a product design and development standpoint. RE gets nothing on the table for me to choose a RE x Astar or RE x Revit jacket.
Also, now that RE x Revit Darcha has been discontinued it makes me doubt on the kind of service they will provide (facing a horrible one for the Nirvik which they still sell). Buying Revit directly from Highnote (distributor) would surely provide a better aftersales service given their longstanding relation.

Same with Astar, they may stop their association and then RE by themselves have no capabilities of providing aftersales servicing.

Coming to the non-cobranded gear, their gear is extremely overpriced again.
- Yes, there is certainly more to a gear than just Level 2. But essentially we are buying a protective gear and the first point that I would consider is the Impact protection and Abrasion resistance.
- Explorer/ Windfrarer/Streetwind like I said lack a basic CE back protector forget Chest .
- Now yes, the fit of the gear, the fall of the protector etc do matter but hey these RE jackets are no precision fit that one should be okay to compromise of back protection/chest protection. I have used jackets in the past by Spartan/Rynox/Solace so I am certain I chose the right size, but seems like its just a design flaw with the RE jacket.
- There are many brands out there who provide good/similar fitting jackets and also have better protectors and higher grade of technical fabric.
- RE has adopted to use Knox Flexiform technology which is a decade old one and Knox Microlock being the latest one being adopted by others.

According to me, I will never recommend anyone to buy gear from RE (not only from my bad experience with the Nirvick)
- Uncertain support
- Not their bread and butter so they cut corners by providing age old protectors like Knox Flexiform
- Overpriced (undoubtedly) for reasons no reason at all. Nothing special about the fit/form/fabric/components that sets them apart

Though I will have a look at the Astar x RE that comes out and will hope these guys allow me an exchange if not a refund, else I am going to abandon the jacket at the store.

I understand that you had a very unpleasant experience with Rynox. I understand that the fit of Air GT did not suit/fit you well, I felt the same about the Nirvik.

With the Rynox, I have a very contrarian experience with Rynox. I have been using their Gear (Tornado Pro jacket older version) and then the Storm Evo jacket and both have been lovely. Infact I retired the Tornado Pro jacket not because it gave up, but because I was looking for a change. I have used the Aspida Icarus (if anyones remembers this one) before the Tornado and Solece*Furry jacket (but very briefly). I can very confidently say that the finish of the Rynox jacket felt quite premium than the rest that I used. I had faced an issue with their H2go rain jacket and they replaced it for me too and the new one that I got was towards the end of monsoon so did not quite get to try it for long. For whatever brief period I used the replacement that I received, it worked well.*

But from my personal experience and from what I read in the forum too, I believe that Rynox does have some good after sales service. Seems they have replaced products for Develish too like I read earlier on the forum.

I also read about 3 pants that they replaced for you (but it something they need to deep dive to understand why in the first place did 3 pants fail)

I believe that's the basic difference between Gear brand and OE brand selling gear. For gear brand they are more serious about what they sell, the gear they develop and the aftersales.

Quote:

Originally Posted by astrik.treks (Post 5284893)

astrik.treks, Im not sure that I fully understand your point here. Every motorcycle manufacturer ties up with riding gear manufacturers to launch rebranded, co-branded or custom products. Rebranding is what happens in most cases. For example, Harley used to sell helmets that were basically KBC helmets. BMW sells the GS Pure helmet which is the Airoh Commander. There are tons of such examples.

Coming to cobranding, this isnt new. The new KTM RC 390 PowerWear collection basically consists of the Airoh ST501 and A* SM6V2.

Custom gear can be designed and built, but the costs of R&D and manufacturing would be exorbitant, and this would have to get passed on to the customer. And then, you and me will complain about how expensive the new made for Royal Enfield A* gear is!

Again, Im not giving more specifics on the impending A* launch, as I will wait for Royal Enfield to officially announce the products first.

Quote:

Originally Posted by astrik.treks (Post 5284893)

Also, now that RE x Revit Darcha has been discontinued it makes me doubt on the kind of service they will provide (facing a horrible one for the Nirvik which they still sell). Buying Revit directly from Highnote (distributor) would surely provide a better aftersales service given their longstanding relation.

You can buy from an online retailer but how will you try before you buy? High Note Performance doesnt offer free returns.

Lets go back to reach. High Note Performance probably has 20 to 25 (by my best guess) partner stores. Royal Enfield is selling riding gear through all 350 of their stores. Compare the reach and the volumes on a pan India level. Who will provide better aftersales service? An importer or a company that has a direct tie up with the manufacturer? Importers can change. We have seen this in India with brands like SOL etc. Companies cant, unless a tieup breaks.

Specific to the Darcha, the model was discontinued in 2017 / 18. Im not sure what support we can expect 4 to 5 years later.

Long story short, I believe you are worrying way too much about support!

Quote:

Originally Posted by astrik.treks (Post 5284893)

But from my personal experience and from what I read in the forum too, I believe that Rynox does have some good after sales service. Seems they have replaced products for Develish too like I read earlier on the forum.

I too have heard a lot about Rynox's great after sales service. But after talking to a lot of fellow enthusiasts and getting first hand feedback, I realized that the reason for this is because they have all had to deal with warranty claims, returns and replacements etc.

The reason why we dont hear much about the after sales service for other companies is because very rarely do their products have to be returned, in the first place! Ive owned gear from DSG, Cramster, Rynox, A*, Revit, Royal Enfield, SPRS, Dainese and TBG. Except for TBG and Rynox, Ive never had to deal with the after sales support for any of the other brands.

In many ways, its like my friend telling me that his child's school principal is such a lovely lady. Its only when I asked him how he knew that, when he told me that his child is always being called to the principals office for breaking the school's rules. None of my other friends have ever met the principal of the school in which their children study.