Mahindra XUV500 W8: Severe topple, but Side Airbags didn't deploy!

[Fabiaous]

Originally Posted by glenmz

. About why the Contis look like this - Not sure sir!

Are the continental Tyres that unreliable post 8000kms run.

[blackwasp]

I went through the owners manual and would like to highlight the following :

Air bags may not inflate if the vehicle collides with objects such as utility poles or trees, where the point of impact is concentrated to one area and the full force of the impact is not delivered to the sensors.

Air bags may not inflate in rollover accidents where air bag deployment would not provide protection to the occupants. However, side impact and curtain air bags may inflate when the vehicle is rolled over by a side impact collision.

Also it was mentioned that the car rolled over not due to hitting the tree rather the tree stopped the motion of the car. Hence maybe as there was no impact before roll over, the side airbags didn't deploy. My opinion is that the impact was not enough to warrant airbag deployment but that needs to be studied by experts.

[glenmz]

Originally Posted by GTO

Mr. Srinivas - Principal Chief Engineer, Mahindra Automotive - wrote the following email to the XUV500 owner. This email was shared with me by Mahindra.

Thanks GTO for sharing this. Thomas received this email yesterday you kinda bet us to posting this .
Just want to reiterate this - I am informed by Thomas that he got a call from Mahindra Regional Customer Care manager offering to get the vehicle inspected at Mangalore Service center but he is yet to consider this offer since He wants the inspection to take place at his presence; so he checked if the vehicle could be shipped to Cochin for further investigation. They are considering this request and haven't reverted to him.

From my previous post, the one after he took the opinion of the insurance surveyor, would be interested to know if the rear left wheel has played a part in this.

Now I understand that Mahindra is yet to inspect the vehicle. So Either Mr Srinivas has concluded everything using the email and comments in this thread or they might have some kind of magic crystal ball that gives all the answers

Originally Posted by vinodv001

From the discussions what i understood is that the tyres were used for 8000 kms , The FRONT Tyres; and the rear tyres were wornout. Was that the major reason for this unfortunate accident ?

"when you replace only 2 tyres, the new pair should be in the back." The second url shows a video demonstration this.

All 4 tyres were replaced together.

Originally Posted by blackwasp

I went through the owners manual and would like to highlight the following :
Also it was mentioned that the car rolled over not due to hitting the tree rather the tree stopped the motion of the car. Hence maybe as there was no impact before roll over, the side airbags didn't deploy. My opinion is that the impact was not enough to warrant airbag deployment but that needs to be studied by experts.

Thanks, thats good info. There was another post where there was a comment on side airbags not getting deployed when there is no roll over sensor. But if the vehicle is equipped with roll over mitigation (which is in this case), shouldn't this vehicle also have a roll over sensor?

This is a video walk thru of the accident spot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJA1MzlfkrE

[thomasmurc]

I would like to thank all those who have been posting theirs views and advising us in this thread. Also my special thanks to TEAM-BHP for approving my membership and to my friend Glen for initiating this thread and posting reviews on my mishap on this forum.

I and my friends are yet to recover from the shock of the accident. At the same time we are so grateful to the almighty for performing such a miraculous rescue.

At the outset, it looked like a case of aquaplaning as it was drizzling and there was a suspected puddle of water on the road. But on proper inspection of the spot a few days later,it was found that there was no scope for water logging at that location as the road had a proper inclination to the edge through which the rain water was drained off to the creek besides the road.

Later on inspecting the vehicle,we were startled to find that, the rear left tyre of the vehicle is completely worn out whereas the rest of the tyres were in pretty good shape while both the rear tyres had the same tread levels before the start of the journey.And when we couple this with the fact that the vehicle moving amiably in a perfectly straight road, spun around the axis of the rear left tyre at the time of accident, without any apparent provocations whatsoever,leads us to suspect that the jamming of the rear left tyre triggered the vehicle spin off at the time of the mishap.

And what saddens me the most is the fact that, being an ardent Mahindra loyalist and presently owning two of their vehicles and have previously owned four of their vehicles, is the apathy and insensitivity Mahindra has shown in this case by responding to my calls and queries after more than a weeks deliberation, that too in a nonchalant manner.
As it is evident from the mail Mr.Sriniwas of Mahindra has posted earlier in the thread, their attempt is to hastily arrive at a favourable conclusion by brushing aside blatant nonconformities like the failed deployment of airbags,failure of traction control etc without even conducting a preliminary technical inspection of the vehicle and purely based on the views shared in the forum and my mail sent to them.

[sudev]

Sorry to disagree. Jamming of rear left tyre would have had more than sufficient inputs available to driver of vehicle. Totally bald tyre in few kilometres can be result of totally misaligned or toe in/out setting. But this can be inferred from tyre inspection even now. Again this sort of setup would have prompted the feedback on wheel of the car. Till now no such input is received from anyone.

Aquaplaning is not just puddles but also film of water running across the road surface. Anyone considered muddy surface? Cattle crossing typically results in this.

One aspect is why vehicle control was lost.

Second aspect is speeds at which is was travelling when incident occurred.

Third aspect is impact, deployment of air bags etc. and damage to body shell.

[raj_5004]

Originally Posted by thomasmurc

I would like to thank all those who have been posting theirs views and advising us in this thread. Also my special thanks to TEAM-BHP for approving my membership and to my friend Glen for initiating this thread and posting reviews on my mishap on this forum.

.............................

As it is evident from the mail Mr.Sriniwas of Mahindra has posted earlier in the thread, their attempt is to hastily arrive at a favourable conclusion by brushing aside blatant nonconformities like the failed deployment of airbags,failure of traction control etc without even conducting a preliminary technical inspection of the vehicle and purely based on the views shared in the forum and my mail sent to them.

Dear Thomas,

First of all, we are very happy to hear that no fatalities occurred in this crash.

Thank you for coming up to this forum and explaining your side of the story. Now we get a clear picture of what exactly happened.

If you can, kindly answer the below queries -

• What was the speed of the vehicle when it went out of control?
• Was it raining during the crash?
• Were all the occupants, including the rear seat ones, wearing seat belts?
• Was the rear left tyre totally bald or just a certain section scraped off?

Here, I am assuming the vehicle lost control, toppled to it's side due to inertia and of course the high C.G. (without hitting anything) and after it had toppled, it hit a coconut tree before coming to a halt.

We understand your concern regarding the side airbags not working but have you thought about what would have happened if the rear passengers were not belted and the airbags got activated? They would be thrown towards the side in the direction of the airbags. The airbags filled with explosive material meanwhile will inflate at a speed of 300 km/h towards the direction of the rear seat occupants. Not a very pleasant situation.

I am not saying that the XUV will not activate the airbags if the belts are not worn, that is still undecided! But in a way, why do you want the Airbags to work when it was not needed?

[GTO]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

I am not very convinced on side curtains not being deployed in this case

Originally Posted by badri

I'm not convinced too with the reason given by Mahindra. Aquaplaning could have been the reason for the spin to start. However, once the car hits the tree sideways (or) rolls, there will be "considerable side impact" that should be enough to trigger the airbags.

100% Agreed!

It's understandable that the ESP couldn't do anything while the vehicle was aquaplaning (as the tyres have no contact with the road).

However, aquaplaning has nothing to do with the deployment of side airbags. The airbags should have activated in such a serious accident. Just look at one of the headrests and how its popped out of the window! God forbid, it could've been someone's head.

is it possible that Mahindra has wired / programmed side bags to work in conjunction with front bags depending on severity / position of hit ?

Could be a possibility.

Originally Posted by glenmz

Now I understand that Mahindra is yet to inspect the vehicle. So Either Mr Srinivas has concluded everything using the email and comments in this thread or they might have some kind of magic crystal ball that gives all the answers

I was under the impression that an official reply would come in only after the vehicle has been thoroughly inspected by Mahindra. For Srinivas to make the comment he did is rather premature, if he has indeed not seen the vehicle himself.

Originally Posted by thomasmurc

Later on inspecting the vehicle,we were startled to find that, the rear left tyre of the vehicle is completely worn out whereas the rest of the tyres were in pretty good shape while both the rear tyres had the same tread levels before the start of the journey.

Jamming of the rear tyre would lead to it flat-spotting, not a completely worn out tyre.

[supertinu]

Originally Posted by GTO

Mr. Srinivas - Principal Chief Engineer, Mahindra Automotive - wrote the following email to the XUV500 owner. This email was shared with me by Mahindra.

From the email and then confirmation from the owner, it seems like Mahindra is mainly responding based on data being posted here on TBHP and limited addl info. It would have been prudent of Mahindra to connect and get more info before giving theories of what really happened. We have enough expertise on the forum here to theorize and have already concluded everything that Mahindra is suggesting.

The biggest doubt in my view is that the side airbags didnt deploy even after hitting the tree. The side of the car shows its caved in, which mean rapid de-acceleration. ONly Mahindra can confirm if it was enough for airbag to deploy. But in my view as long as the impact is strong enough to bend the the body, it should deploy.

Only other explanation left is that since the car had already toppled before hitting the tree, maybe the airbag sensor/wiring something got damaged and resulted in non deployment.

Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad

Incidents like these further reaffirm my belief in buying only NCAP certified Europeans than desi tin cans

I am sorry but your response seems very immature in my view. I am not saying this cause I own a XUV but more because of the implied mentality that everything Indian is crap. Just for your reference you can look at the link below and let me know your view of NCAP tested Europeans.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/street...ml#post2875259

Originally Posted by thomasmurc

At the outset, it looked like a case of aquaplaning as it was drizzling and there was a suspected puddle of water on the road. But on proper inspection of the spot a few days later,it was found that there was no scope for water logging at that location as the road had a proper inclination to the edge through which the rain water was drained off to the creek besides the road.

Later on inspecting the vehicle,we were startled to find that, the rear left tyre of the vehicle is completely worn out whereas the rest of the tyres were in pretty good shape while both the rear tyres had the same tread levels before the start of the journey.And when we couple this with the fact that the vehicle moving amiably in a perfectly straight road, spun around the axis of the rear left tyre at the time of accident, without any apparent provocations whatsoever,leads us to suspect that the jamming of the rear left tyre triggered the vehicle spin off at the time of the mishap.

So the mystery deepens a bit. Since you confirm that it was raining, then aquaplaning can certainly happen. A wet road is good enough for that. Infact the start of the rain is the worst time to drive since water+dust on the road will form a slippery combination. After it has rained heavily the roads get washed off and get better.

However your point about rear tyre being ok and then wore off rapidly doesnt make sense. How much distance had you driven? If there was a major jam in the tyre, did you feel the drag on the steering wheel? a left pull or something. A tyre that wears off after 50000 kms, cant just got bald within few hundred kms without impacting the driving characteristics of the car or sound of jammed brakes or worn bearing.

[PADAS]

Originally Posted by thomasmurc

I would like to thank all those who have been posting theirs views and advising us in this thread. Also my special thanks to TEAM-BHP for approving my membership and to my friend Glen for initiating this thread and posting reviews on my mishap on this forum.

Hi Thomas, welcome to the forum.
Glad that all of you came out safe from this and hope Mahindra will keep up their reputation of being customer friendly and do the appropriate in this situation.

Originally Posted by thomasmurc

At the outset, it looked like a case of aquaplaning as it was drizzling and there was a suspected puddle of water on the road. But on proper inspection of the spot a few days later,it was found that there was no scope for water logging at that location as the road had a proper inclination to the edge through which the rain water was drained off to the creek besides the road.

From the video, it seems like the land drops from near the edge of the road by 3-4 feet. This could have resulted in the topple and not the spin or high CG. And the mud/slush might have reduced the impact rather than worsening it. Not sure if this interfered with the curtain airbag deployment.

Also the photos shows that the rear quarter panel hit the coconut tree. This could have resulted in the cave in of the top portion. If that's case, is there a possibility that the sensor placement for curtain airbags vs the point of impact played a role in not deploying the air bags ?

Originally Posted by thomasmurc

Later on inspecting the vehicle,we were startled to find that, the rear left tyre of the vehicle is completely worn out whereas the rest of the tyres were in pretty good shape while both the rear tyres had the same tread levels before the start of the journey.And when we couple this with the fact that the vehicle moving amiably in a perfectly straight road, spun around the axis of the rear left tyre at the time of accident, without any apparent provocations whatsoever,leads us to suspect that the jamming of the rear left tyre triggered the vehicle spin off at the time of the mishap.

As pointed out earlier by others, its unlikely that the tyre can wear out so quickly and the driver not noticing that. Anything out of ordinary with such an impact would have resulted in road noise, left pulling, etc.

Originally Posted by thomasmurc

And what saddens me the most is the fact that, being an ardent Mahindra loyalist and presently owning two of their vehicles and have previously owned four of their vehicles, is the apathy and insensitivity Mahindra has shown in this case by responding to my calls and queries after more than a weeks deliberation, that too in a nonchalant manner.

Given that Mahindra is considering your request to do the analysis in Cochin at your presence, it might be too early to comment either ways. I hope Mahindra live up to their reputation of being customer friendly and takes the learnings from this situation to further improve the safety of their vehicles.

[Urban_Nomad]

Originally Posted by supertinu

I am sorry but your response seems very immature in my view. I am not saying this cause I own a XUV but more because of the implied mentality that everything Indian is crap. Just for your reference you can look at the link below and let me know your view of NCAP tested Europeans.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/street...ml#post2875259

Hey Tinu - No apologies necessary. Its your POV and you are entitled to it. I stand by my comment though. I would rather be alive and immature vs. dead and level headed / fair / mature / <insert choice of description>

Thanks for the above link. I remember reading it and thank god the OP is alive and well. Quick synopsis:

- Car is on a curve, doing around 80 KMPH
- Gets clipped by a tempo at the rear
- Car spins, goes over the bridge, topples & end up on its roof
- OP escapes with injuries, none of which are serious and / life threatening

OP questions:

- Airbags did not open. Why?
- Did the sturdy contsruction of car save him?
- Why did ABS not help?

My unqualified opinion:

- There was no frontal impact. Hence no deployment. If it were equipped with curtain airbags; this would still be a very valid question
- I think the car's construction has a LOT to do with the fact that he was able to walk away
- ABS kicks in whilst braking only. The brakes were not engaged when the truck hit him. The car was already in a spin. Something like ESP / TC might have helped, although I am not too sure how helpful it would have been in a situation where:

- You are at a turn carrying a fair bit of speed
- Are hit at an angle from behind by a truck that weighs TONS. The sheer force of it must be overwhelming for a hatch

Despite all of the above, the occupant walks away. Nice!

Since I have reviewed the link you had so nicely asked me to review; I would like a similar favour from you. Please look at the below link and let me know what you think. This one BTW is from one of the largest car manufacturers in Hindustan:

http://auto.ndtv.com/news/now-maruti...h-tests-688031

In case you do not have the free time like I do, here are some excerpts from the news link:

- Indian Swift model failed the test even before the crash happened. The crash analysis showed the crash-test-dummies having sustained near-fatal injuries, more so in the case of the driver
- The car's structural integrity was also deemed as unstable
- And this is a key point, given the made-in-Europe Swift has a much sturdier structure and had achieved a 5-Star crash certification from Euro-NCAP

I am curious. What do you think of this Indian manufacturer's (one of the highest selling) offerings ...... which provide a sturdy, safe cocoon for another country's customers, but sells death traps for families in its homeland

I am happy to be oblivious to all the niceties our Indian manufacturers have to offer and continue to live in blissful ignorance

[thomasmurc]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

Dear Thomas,

If you can, kindly answer the below queries -

• What was the speed of the vehicle when it went out of control?
• Was it raining during the crash?
• Were all the occupants, including the rear seat ones, wearing seat belts?
• Was the rear left tyre totally bald or just a certain section scraped off?

Thank you Raj.

* The speed of the vehicle must have been around 90 kms ,as it went out of control
* It was drzzling at that moment
* Both front seat belts and the rear left seat belts were worn
* I had conducted the wheel alignment correction and wheel condition inspection from the authorised Mahindra service centre in Kochi, one day prior to the journey.The rear left tyre was in decent condition at the start of the trip, but upon inspection post the accident,it was found to be bald.

Originally Posted by supertinu

However your point about rear tyre being ok and then wore off rapidly doesnt make sense. How much distance had you driven? If there was a major jam in the tyre, did you feel the drag on the steering wheel? a left pull or something. A tyre that wears off after 50000 kms, cant just got bald within few hundred kms without impacting the driving characteristics of the car or sound of jammed brakes or worn bearing.

I myself, am curious on the wear off of the tyre so quickly and find it difficult to rationally explain it. But what I could vouch is that all the 4 tyres were changed together around 8000 odd kms back and these tyres were inspected by the Mahindra service centre before the start of the journey.even now we could find the front tyres in great shape and the rear right tyre in decent shape.
Since the inspection we must have covered roughly 850 kms from Kochi to Goa and around 400 kms back from there. Since the beginning of the return journey we experienced a slight left pulling though.

[raj_5004]

Originally Posted by thomasmurc

Thank you Raj.

* The speed of the vehicle must have been around 90 kms ,as it went out of control
* It was drzzling at that moment
* Both front seat belts and the rear left seat belts were worn
* I had conducted the wheel alignment correction and wheel condition inspection from the authorised Mahindra service centre in Kochi, one day prior to the journey.The rear left tyre was in decent condition at the start of the trip, but upon inspection post the accident,it was found to be bald.

Since the front and rear passengers were wearing seatbelts, we can rule out the aspect that MAYBE the airbags did not inflate because of the seatbelts not being worn.

XUV's manual mentions that the side airbags will open only in a side impact. This is what needs further analysis now.

Also, the XUV was recalled to update the side airbags software? Did you get that done on your car?

As GTO mentioned above, if it was a tyre jamming incident, the tyre treads will scrape in just the portion which was in contact with the road. The remaining tread should look good. It is not possible that the whole tread will be eaten up because of alignment issues in one day and because of the tyre getting jammed.

[glenmz]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

Also, the XUV was recalled to update the side airbags software? Did you get that done on your car?

Let me answer this for Thomas -

Originally Posted by glenmz

The vehicle should have been updated with the fix for side airbags as it was regularly serviced at Mahindra ASC.

I remember him mentioning about the recalls that Mahindra made during the earlier days. His vehicle had gone in for service the day before he took the vehicle for the trip.

[supertinu]

Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad

My unqualified opinion:

- There was no frontal impact. Hence no deployment. If it were equipped with curtain airbags; this would still be a very valid question
- I think the car's construction has a LOT to do with the fact that he was able to walk away
- ABS kicks in whilst braking only. The brakes were not engaged when the truck hit him. The car was already in a spin. Something like ESP / TC might have helped, although I am not too sure how helpful it would have been in a situation where:


This one BTW is from one of the largest car manufacturers in Hindustan:

http://auto.ndtv.com/news/now-maruti...h-tests-688031

You have been fairly logical in analyzing the Polo accident. You agree airbags should not have deployed and I too believe the same. Despite the entire car structure crumpled like a "tin can", you think its ok since its just a small hatch and ofcourse the driver walked off alive which is great. However for the accident in discussion here, where a 2 ton SUV, doing higher speeds with 5 adults on board goes through equally bad accident and all the occupants walked with with relatively minor injuries, all your logic goes to the wind and you blame it on the "Indian" tin can and not appreciate the fact that maybe the structure was designed reasonably well enough. Maybe you just dont want to accept that some Indian manufacturer could do a decent job.
That was my problem with your original blanket statement about Indian manufacturers.

I am well aware of what maruti does and even companies like Nissan for India spec models. Hence the reason I dont intend to own one of those of models in near future.

Originally Posted by thomasmurc

I myself, am curious on the wear off of the tyre so quickly and find it difficult to rationally explain it. But what I could vouch is that all the 4 tyres were changed together around 8000 odd kms back and these tyres were inspected by the Mahindra service centre before the start of the journey.even now we could find the front tyres in great shape and the rear right tyre in decent shape.
Since the inspection we must have covered roughly 850 kms from Kochi to Goa and around 400 kms back from there. Since the beginning of the return journey we experienced a slight left pulling though.

Its quite possible that the real cause of the accident could lie with something to have gone wrong with this rear tyre. However if say the alignment of the tyre was so bad that it went bald within 1000km of driving, then ideally the temp of the tyre should also have been higher and tyretronics might have caught that. Not sure if you had any such error. Anyways I think its prudent to get Mahindra to inspect the car and give there official response based on data and not just hypothetical.

[oxymoron]

One quick question, having a full time 4WD in this situation helps? Or you still have the same risk of aquaplaning.