[volkman10]

Honda and Renault respond to the crash results,

As expected here is the response from Renault-

Safety is of paramount importance for Renault and all our products meet and exceed the requisite safety standards set by Indian regulatory authorities. India is gradually moving towards international safety norms by including more robust safety regulations and the assurance of the Bharat NCAP is a positive step in this direction. As a customer-focused company, Renault fully supports this initiative and we are already future-ready in terms of technology, design and engineering for enhanced safety for all our vehicles. The Indian government has announced that the crash test regulation for the existing cars will come into effect in 2019 and for the new cars in 2017. Renault fully supports this

Honda's Response -

the star ratings released by Global NCAP are for two variants of the Mobilio, including the V grade equipped with dual front airbags and another base variant without airbags. In both the tests, the Mobilio body was found to be stable and survival space for passengers was maintained after collision, with no A-pillar collapse.

Additionally, the opening and shutting of doors was possible after the collision, which is an important factor in rescue operations. This result was achieved with Honda’s original vehicle body structure, advanced compatibility engineering (ACE) body, which is applied to all Honda models across the world and takes care of the most inherent safety requirement of our cars

Link

[NiInJa]

Good to see the new Kwid's front structure not crumpling the way the first one did. Should praise Renault for constantly updating the car in such a short span, even if it means a progress of one star.

Your move now, Maruti Suzuki ! Show us if the Alto has improved even a bit.

Was confident Honda would not fare badly in crash tests. Time to show these results to colleagues

[chandras1]

Mod Note : There are several spelling & grammatical errors in your posts. This negatively affects the forum experience for other readers.

Kindly ensure that you proof-read your posts prior to submission. Also, it would be a good idea to use a spell-checker.

[sibot]

I as a potential buyer was swayed by the Kwid and the riff raff' they are giving with it. But thanks to these threads on TBHP, looking at these abysmal ratings I have dropped the idea all together.

@ chandras1

Even though the thickness of the sheet metal in the Etios may seem lacking, the car's structure is very well built.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by Rajeevraj

Most Indian cars tested so far have failed the test miserably even with airbags. From that context this is a small positive. From a global safety perspective we are nowhere there.

As among the cars tested till date, we need to appreciate Volkswagen and Toyota whole heartedly. They not only make good cars, but went ahead and made airbags standard across the range as well, ensuring 4 star safety for all their cars.

Honda deserves a half hearted applause since they build stable structures (hence better than Maruti, Hyundai, Renault models tested), but average in safety. 3 star and visibly more damage compared to VW and Toyota. Airbags not yet made standard across the range. They only requested the higher end model to be tested, so that the results are not published as zero star.

Originally Posted by smartcat

- These days, cars with extra active safety measures gets an extra star (Eg: Baleno with radar braking gets 4 star and BRV with ESP gets 5 stars)
.

Only EuroNCAP has updated the norms to include active safety features. 3 star Baleno rated as per EuroNCAP is way safer than a 3 star Mobilio rated as per GlobalNCAP as evident from the AOP results.

[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Only EuroNCAP has updated the norms to include active safety features. 3 star Baleno rated as per EuroNCAP is way safer than a 3 star Mobilio rated as per GlobalNCAP as evident from the AOP results.

ASEAN NCAP includes active safety features - otherwise there wouldn't have been 4 and 5 star rating for BRV. Not sure about Global/Latin NCAP.

Another important bit -

Baleno crash test simulates a 64 kmph head-on impact against 900 kilo car while Mobilio crash test simulates a 64 kmph head-on impact against 1.2 ton car. Impact against cars with similar mass and structure is the main basis for NCAP tests. Basically, in a Baleno Vs Mobilio crash test, you cannot really say one is better off in a Baleno rather than a Mobilio.

So if a five-star car crashes into a three-star car, the five-star car will fare better?

Not necessarily. Euro NCAP assessments are carried out with a car's class in mind. That means huge 4x4s aren’t compared directly to tiny city cars. As such, Euro NCAP results aren't always comparable. Generally speaking, the taller a car is, the better it will fare in an accident. This is because a taller car will more heavily damage a lower car if they collide. As such, a three-star 4x4 might still come off better than a five-star city car if they crash into each other.

http://www.carbuyer.co.uk/tips-and-a...#ixzz4Km8616Cl

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by smartcat

ASEAN NCAP includes active safety features - otherwise there wouldn't have been 4 and 5 star rating for BRV.

Well, not really.

ASEAN NCAP checks for ESC and SBR. Nothing more. That's why BRV gets a five star for models with ESC, and 4 stars without it.

Euro NCAP on the other hand grants additional points for Autonomous (radar based) emergency braking, blind spot monitoring system, lane assist, speed monitoring etc. Baleno lost one star mainly due to the absence of AEB on the base models, while higher models received a 4 rating.

Also, EuroNCAP tests for a lot more parameters as compared to ASEAN or global NCAP.

Originally Posted by smartcat

Baleno crash test simulates a 64 kmph head-on impact against 900 kilo car while Mobilio crash test simulates a 64 kmph head-on impact against 1.2 ton car.

True. I meant independently since direct head on crash is something we can never predict or prove.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by PraNeel

Rural consumers are not even educated about the importance of ABS and airbags.

And everyone needs to understand that ABS & Airbags don't make an unsafe vehicle safe. What's equally / more important is the structural safety offered. As the NCAP has repeatedly said earlier, some Indian cars are so weak that airbags don't make a difference at all.

and a big vehicle means safety

All other things being the same, this is generally true. In a 120 km/h crash, you'd rather be in an S-Class than an A-Class.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Why Mobilio?

Maybe they got the most discount on the flop model.

On a serious note though, the front end of the Mobilio is structurally identical to the Amaze & Brio. So it does tell us a little bit about the smaller cars.

Originally Posted by Vigkey

that an improved and revised and worked upon 4th version Kwid could only manage 1 star.

Still better than its direct competition that has gotten all of 0 stars. Bottom line is this = If you want safety for <4 lakhs, buy used.

[amalji]

Can anyone pour more light into why the Mobilio with and without airbags got different ratings for child protection ? Logically, I don't see the airbag having any effect on the child protection.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by amalji

Can anyone pour more light into why the Mobilio with and without airbags got different ratings for child protection ? Logically, I don't see the airbag having any effect on the child protection.

Hard to conclude anything since video shows different angles, but I think the kids are moving along with the seat in V variant, but thrown bit more out of the seat in the base variant. The front facing kid is almost hanging on the belt in the base variant.

Not sure why. Seatbelt changes perhaps?





Edit-

Two confusions now.

1. Which variant Mobilio sold in India has a black roof and black mirror caps? IIRC, not even the RS had it. This is V variant as per Honda press statement.

2. Weight difference between E and V variants is 30kg as per brochure, but the cars tested had a 130 kg difference approx. Even if one is a petrol, and other is a diesel, difference is 115kg as per brochure.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Not sure why. Seatbelt changes perhaps?

Good point. The one with airbags comes with pretensioner seatbelts as well while the non-airbag variant doesn't seem to have it. But, I'm not sure if the middle row seatbelts also come with pretensioners.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Edit-

Two confusions now.

1. Which variant Mobilio sold in India has a black roof and black mirror caps? IIRC, not even the RS had it. This is V variant as per Honda press statement.

2. Weight difference between E and V variants is 30kg add per brochure, but the cars tested had a 130 kg difference approx. Even if one is a petrol, and other is a diesel, difference is 115kg as per brochure.

This is also very weird.

[Vigkey]

Originally Posted by GTO

Still better than its direct competition that has gotten all of 0 stars. Bottom line is this = If you want safety for <4 lakhs, buy used.

Absolutely GTO. I totally agree. Renault has managed to fare better than the Altos, Eons, Gos and the Nanos of the world.

While I appreciate Renault going forward and trying to improve the structural safety we should not forget how they tried to involve in an absolutely condemn-able and fraudulent attempt to only strengthen the structure in the driver side. Also, I am still not sure if the Kwid in India is structurally as safe as the Kwid sold outside.

All said, they are better than the Hyundais, Marutis and Mahindras who are just trying to justify their product saying "We meet and exceed the Indian safety guidelines".

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Edit-

Two confusions now.

1. Which variant Mobilio sold in India has a black roof and black mirror caps? IIRC, not even the RS had it. This is V variant as per Honda press statement.

2. Weight difference between E and V variants is 30kg as per brochure, but the cars tested had a 130 kg difference approx. Even if one is a petrol, and other is a diesel, difference is 115kg as per brochure.

Oops. Are we probably looking at another fraud attempt? This time by Honda?? But, one thing to be noted is that even the 0-star Mobilio was structurally stable and A-pillar did not have deformities.

[jpcoolguy]

Originally Posted by Vigkey

Renault has managed to fare better than the Altos, Eons, Gos and the Nanos of the world.

While I appreciate Renault going forward and trying to improve the structural safety we should not forget how they tried to involve in an absolutely condemn-able and fraudulent attempt to only strengthen the structure in the driver side.

Rightly said - Kwid still fares better than other cars in its segment, but how could we be sure that Renault is not using same fraudulent practice on the cars sold in India.

I was also pleasantly surprised, like others, on seeing the 3-Star rating for Mobilio - one Honda car which I thought was of flimsy build. But as everyone said, Amaze/Jazz/City/BR-V would have been more relevant in today's scenario. Is there any specific criteria for G-NCAP to choose which model car from a manufacturer have to be crash-tested? Or is it just a randomly chosen car?

And we know that the cheapest Toyota car has scored 4-Star rating and also good on Toyota to make dual airbags as standard across the variants. Time for Honda to make dual airbags as standard across the variants.

[saket77]

The results is like a mixed bag, esp for the Kwid. One way to see it is that Renault doesn't seem to have done too much to beef up the structural safety despite being tested '0' a little while back. In that way, it is lucky to be tested twice in a short span of time while the Marutis and the Hyundais wait in the queue. A small tiny positive is that it scores at least a star. No way appreciating this 'feat' but at least this car is now just a tad safer than its second cousins like Alto, i10 and the likes which scored zero a little while ago. Still, if safety is a priority under 4 lac budget, better look into used market and into the tried and tested models.

Coming to Honda, 3 star is decent, but not sufficient especially for a Honda. Good to see Honda has not compromised on the basics but there is no rocket science that Honda (or even Renault) needs to re-learn to make safe cars. They have the tech
and it is just a matter of execution. How much more cost it would add when they already have the research and designs ready long ago?

Regards,
Saket.

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by smartcat

1999 star ratings are not comparable with 2016 ratings:

- Older tests were conducted at 30 to 35 mph as against 40 mph now
- These days, cars with extra active safety measures gets an extra star (Eg: Baleno with radar braking gets 4 star and BRV with ESP gets 5 stars)

According to my understanding that was only with the american testing agencies. By 1999 Euro NCAP was conducting offset crash tests at 40mph itself. The Elantra I had mentioned was tested in 2001. I feel those tests are easily comparable to the relatively easy global NCAP tests of today.