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Old 4th April 2019, 11:08   #16
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Default Re: Apathy of people in India

Happy to report, Mumbai is much better in this aspect. When any road accident happens, people come to help quickly. I have seen and experienced it lot of times. Two years back, I had a bike accident on a rainy day. I do remember, at least 8 to 10 people (including fellow riders) came immediatly to help. City like Mumbai, where time is money. People have emphathy towards the injured person and willingness to help.
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Old 4th April 2019, 11:33   #17
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Originally Posted by Utsav3010 View Post
Why the hell do people of India lack empathy? It is totally okay if you're not willing to help. But why are you cursing and stopping someone who's coming forward to help?
And what's this nonsense you're doing with your mobiles, clicking photos and making videos? These things don't anger me, they make me really sad.
Your Dad did the right thing and that's the only thing to be done. You did the right thing by posting here. This forum has that minimum guarantee that it's visited by sensible and empathetic people. So writing this here is surely going to have a positive impact.

As for the why part, well like many other things with us, it's complicated, I guess. We remember things we see. All around us, on the mobile, in the news, we just see videos of accidents and people recording videos of them. We rarely see videos where people are actually helping people. Maybe they just don't sell, so they aren't aired nor forwarded.

Deep inside, we all know, as humans we need to help. But there's that inner 'desi' mind that starts cooking up excuses like "they were driving fast and deserved it" and any number of them for which we should be ashamed. That's not how we were, if our history was correct.

On another note, we wanted world-class automobiles and we're getting them. World-class roads? well, we got them at some places so no matter even if it's foggy we can drive at inane speeds and crash into one another like it's some stupid video game. Only that we can't restart the game.

But what about the maintenance and availability of emergency response units? Why aren't we demanding them?

We all know that we need to dial 100 for police. Why don't we remember the number for the ambulance and why aren't they in huge number on all roads so they'll be at the accident site in no time?

Given the complicated system we have where development is always a tug of war, it'll take time.

So friends, An accident is called an accident for a reason. No one wants it. So unless it's a really bad one where handling the victim is going to do more damage, let's do what we can to help them.

Being really honest, we never know when we might end up in that state, so it doesn't hurt being a little selfish. Help someone today so we might get help tomorrow when in need.

Last edited by suhaas307 : 4th April 2019 at 15:44. Reason: Spacing
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Old 4th April 2019, 11:33   #18
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People can’t stop gushing over the picture of a little boy, who tried to save his neighbour’s chick after he accidentally ran over it with his bicycle. The photo of the boy from Sairang, Mizoram was shared on Facebook by a user named Sanga Says along with the caption explaining the incident.
“This young boy from Sairang, Mizoram, accidentally ran over his neighbour’s chicken with his cycle. He took the chicken, ran to the nearest hospital and with all the money he had, asked for help. (I’m laughing and crying all at the same time),” read the post.
Source.
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Old 4th April 2019, 11:56   #19
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I somehow feel the topic of what to do in case of road accident should be included in the school curriculum and made mandatory for all schools/universities to follow. The topic should include both the incident handling steps like how to handle the accident victims, first aid, CPR, etc along with legal aspects on your rights and legal process in case an individual helps the victim.

It is not always advisable to pick the victim from the accident spot and shift them to the hospital in an auto or car as that might be fatal for the victim if not handled well. Instead, one should call an ambulance and let a medical expert take care of the situation. All these important things should be taught from an early stage and must be repeated again at the graduate and post-graduate studies.
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Old 4th April 2019, 12:38   #20
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Default Re: Apathy of people in India

Hi

I have lived half my life near NH45 and saved many lives. my car was even called as an ambulance by my office colleagues. Police harassment is something I have never faced nor hospital refusing treatment. Especially after the supreme court order. But with advent of mobile phones and need for capturing everything in it is the reason this poor state of affairs as far my observation goes.

And people don't know how save people from wreckage. Fear of fire due to explosion can be related to car accidents. Motorcycle accidents gets attended more quickly is what I have seen
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Old 4th April 2019, 12:57   #21
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Originally Posted by vinair View Post

My honest opinion, scrap the whole licensing process with immediate effect. Bring in a stringent process to certify people who can drive on real roads. People applying for license should first enroll for a rigorous time bound driving and traffic course and get certified to even apply for a license. Make it as bullet proof as any other certification program. Meanwhile, please bring international traffic management advisors to plan and redo our highways and roads to meet minimum international standards!
Fully agree with you. However, we also need strict enforcement otherwise the newly licenced folks will see that the rules are not being followed and would start driving like the rest. We need a minimum one week theory class where the students watch videos and take interactive tests to learn the rules.

We also need awareness and training for the police as most of them are not even aware of traffic rules and basic safety techniques. For example, you can see police vehicles parked on the road and people drive on the wrong side right in front of them. The police don't seem to consider it a serious issue at all. Similarly people stop and stand on the highways and the police are oblivious to it. We often see the police responding to an accident on a fast moving highway and they park their vehicle on the other side, beyond the accident rather than using their vehicle's emergency lights to indicate danger ahead for the rest of the traffic. There are countless examples of this lack of awareness on the part of the police where training and guidance can help. For instance, each patrol vehicle, even of normal police, should be required to issue at least 5 citations for wrong side driving per hour if they were not involved in any other emergency response. For hours they just sit on the roadside and people have no fear of them at all. It would be super easy for them to cite a few people per hour for some basic offenses. In addition, it can lead to many criminals being caught while they check the identification during traffic stops. In the US, most criminals are caught during traffic stops.
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Old 4th April 2019, 12:58   #22
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Default Re: Apathy of people in India

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Originally Posted by blackwasp View Post
Thanks for sharing this Utsav! You have touched quite a nerve and I hope this post brings about a positive change in people's attitude.

City specific behaviour is also quite varying. Having lived in Delhi, Mumbai, and Chennai, I can definitely say that people of Mumbai have relatively higher empathy than other places (Ofcourse this is my personal experience only).

With a smartphone or two with every person, sharing phots and videos has becomes super easy! After all India is one of the few places where Whatsapp took out full page ads to check forwarded messages before sharing with others.
ThankYou so much for the appreciation. It's indeed heartening to see people sharing experiences of Mumbai, Bangalore, Chennai etc. where people came forward to help.

I don't want to sound too harsh, but having lived in Delhi-NCR for close to 22 years, I have never seen people helping the injured out of the way. Again, I am clueless, if it's a cultural problem, lack of empathy or absolute arrogance. I hope, wish and pray better sense prevails and people develop empathy towards their fellow riders/drivers on the road.

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Originally Posted by shankarbn View Post
Police harassment is (was?) definitely real.

Let me tell you a true story. Around 15 years ago, when I was a student riding my motorbike in full riding gear and lights switched on early in the morning, a vegetable vendor on his tvs swerved into me from a wrong turn on a one way street. Once I picked up my motorbike and noticed him bleeding, I got help and admitted him in a hospital. Since the man seemed to be from a poor background, my father even paid some of the initial medical bills. What followed was a harassment and extortion I do not want anyone to relive ever for the crime of helping him get medical attention.

So the next time I see an unknown accident victim, though I will report it to the police and not be stupid to click videos or photos unnecessarily, I am not personally getting involved, thank you very much.

Though much of the apathy seems to be a result of the density of population, instances like this make it much easier to be cold towards loss of limb and life on the road. Add to this the quick action response of a mob and you're ALWAYS inviting trouble for yourself by helping someone in need.
This is something I have heard previously. Even after laws in place, the police/locals/relatives of the injured sometimes take undue advantage of the situation. Maybe, experiences like these force people to not help the injured on the road. We, as responsible citizens need to be safe on the road, and also ensure that others too feel safe on the road. As for the harassment that follows in certain cases, this is a concern that needs to be sorted out on ASAP basis.

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Originally Posted by low_rider View Post
My dad's colleague had a very bad experience playing the good samaritan. It happened sometime 15~20 years back. He took an accident victim to hospital and the police booked him only for the accident. Police logic was "Since you have brought him to the hospital, you only must have hit him". All the good samaritan logic fell on deaf years. Finally, he knew someone, who knew someone, who knew the local MLA, and that's how he managed to get out of the police net. But he still swears till date that he is not going to help any more accident victims.

It so happened after few years, that some youngsters in a jeep hit my brother's motorcycle. However, rather than running away, they brought him to a hospital where he got the treatment within proper time. Although my mother was angry on those boys, but most of us managed to calm her down that we should let the boys go without a police case since they have ensured proper medical attention for him.

But, by and large most of the Indians are afraid to help due to police harassment .
Sad to hear your ordeal. If not for police harassment, I guess majority of the people are willing to extend a helping hand on the road. But experiences like these leave a mark on our mindset, where, even when we want to help, we don't! It is sad to see such a shoddy state of affairs, even after a proper directive from the Honorable Supreme Court.

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Originally Posted by Swap_Abarth View Post
Happy to report, Mumbai is much better in this aspect. When any road accident happens, people come to help quickly. I have seen and experienced it lot of times. Two years back, I had a bike accident on a rainy day. I do remember, at least 8 to 10 people (including fellow riders) came immediatly to help. City like Mumbai, where time is money. People have emphathy towards the injured person and willingness to help.
Kudos! I guess the 'spirit of Mumbai' isn't just a metaphor, it's a real thing and experience.

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Originally Posted by rav11stars View Post
This forum has that minimum guarantee that it's visited by sensible and empathetic people. So writing this here is surely going to have a positive impact.

Deep inside, we all know, as humans we need to help. But there's that inner 'desi' mind that starts cooking up excuses like "they were driving fast and deserved it" and any number of them for which we should be ashamed. That's not how we were, if our history was correct.

On another note, we wanted world-class automobiles and we're getting them. World-class roads? well, we got them at some places so no matter even if it's foggy we can drive at inane speeds and crash into one another like it's some stupid video game. Only that we can't restart the game.
But what about the maintenance and availability of emergency response units? Why aren't we demanding them?
We all know that we need to dial 100 for police. Why don't we remember the number for the ambulance and why aren't they in huge number on all roads so they'll be at the accident site in no time?
Given the complicated system we have where development is always a tug of war, it'll take time.

So friends, An accident is called an accident for a reason. No one wants it. So unless it's a really bad one where handling the victim is going to do more damage, let's do what we can to help them.
Being really honest, we never know when we might end up in that state, so it doesn't hurt being a little selfish. Help someone today so we might get help tomorrow when in need.
I totally agree with you. I am currently working with an automotive website only, and many a times I have discussing with my colleagues, whether we deserve truly 'world class' cars? My opinion to this has always been negative, for I feel with the kind of sub-standard infrastructure and lack of driving ethics, these cars will become killer machines, especially for the under-skilled. We already have a thread on how a Range Rover TD took away innocent lives. Maybe, we can have a debate on this on a separate thread?

Coming to your point of 'desi' mindset, this is what I want to change. People should treat an accident as accident. Nobody wants to get involved in an accident, it happens due to an error. Before passing judgements, people should realise that this can happen with anybody on the road. People need to have empathy and willingness to help on the road, that's about it!

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Originally Posted by Ajitsingh208 View Post
I believe most people on the road are helpful but all out there are inquisitive, hence in case of an accident / breakdown some will offer to help while others will just stand observe and comment. Mobile Phones have made it worse, as most people just start recording. Guessing they want to deliver the update fastest through Whats-app or other mediums.

In my case it depends on the circumstances and who my co passengers are.
1) I once saw a guy slipping on the DND flyover in Delhi at around 11 PM. I stopped, put him in my car and took him to the hospital. I did it because I saw it happen and it was a safe road. Would I stop for an accident victim anywhere on the Meerut highway ater 10PM when I don't see anyone else around. No.
2) Me and my wife were doing a Rajasthan road trip, we were nearing Jodhpur at around midnight when we saw a GJ registration car parked on the side with a couple and 2 children inside, we stopped and gave the family a lift till Jodhpur while their car got towed. Would I have stopped if there were 2 guys in the broken-down car. No


I quoted the above 2 scenarios as these are the most likely ones, Indians everywhere are generally helpful but these days everyone is getting skeptical as the rotten apples have ensured that even the genuine victims wait for help as no one stops if the environment is unsafe.
Couldn't agree more on this. There are notorious people everywhere, especially on desolate highways. On a recent trip to Alwar with my colleagues, I ensured to not stop my car on the stretch between Bhiwadi and Alwar, come what may! With women on board, it is even more difficult to stop and help somebody, considering the numerous (bad) instances we've heard.

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Originally Posted by grevvity View Post
I somehow feel the topic of what to do in case of road accident should be included in the school curriculum and made mandatory for all schools/universities to follow. The topic should include both the incident handling steps like how to handle the accident victims, first aid, CPR, etc along with legal aspects on your rights and legal process in case an individual helps the victim.

It is not always advisable to pick the victim from the accident spot and shift them to the hospital in an auto or car as that might be fatal for the victim if not handled well. Instead, one should call an ambulance and let a medical expert take care of the situation. All these important things should be taught from an early stage and must be repeated again at the graduate and post-graduate studies.
Since my mother is a teacher, I have had numerous discussions pertaining to this. Children need to be taught to be empathetic towards everybody, right from their classmates to their fellow drivers/riders. Sadly, we understand the importance of road safety pretty late, mostly when we suffer ourselves. Including a topic on road safety and empathy in curriculum might help the generations that follow.

To everybody who praised my father for helping the injured, I want to thank all of you from the bottom of my heart. When I got to know about what he did, I was super proud of him, but extremely upset for the attitude that was shown by other people around him. By sharing this experience, I wanted to highlight the importance of how empathy and timely help can save a life. I hope the ones who read this, understand my point of view and vow to become better citizens.

Warm Regards
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Old 4th April 2019, 14:04   #23
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Originally Posted by Utsav3010 View Post
As for the harassment that follows in certain cases, this is a concern that needs to be sorted out on ASAP basis.
It's not a maybe situation, unfortunately. While it is easy to post some text on a website 15 years later, the running around to court, engaging with lawyers and dealing with harassing cops just because I helped someone who was literally the perpetrator is very hard to digest and come to terms with.
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Old 4th April 2019, 14:07   #24
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Thanks for sharing this incident and starting this thread! People doing nothing and just clicking pictures and videos of the accident are just shameless and pathetic. That just boils down to mindset and lack of humanity. As for others who ask you not to help, that might be due to their own past experiences of harrassment or they've heard of near dear ones facing such harrassment and hence are wary, but by no means should they ask someone else not to help!

Police harrassment, mob violence and even the victim turning against the helper for monetary benefits are rampant in our country. My grandfather (even my mother!) still fondly remembers his younger days when people were more friendly, trusting and helping by nature. Nowadays very few people care and many are wary due to scams/frauds.

Few months back, 2 (drunken?) youths on a scooter suddenly came infront of my car cutting across it at a junction. I was at very slow speeds, almost starting from standstill, hence there wasn't any damage or injury to anyone. There was absolutely no fault of mine, but since those 2 guys had fallen down along with their scooter, I and my friend immediately got down from the car and helped them up. Those 2 guys, thankfully admitted it was their mistake and we went our ways. When I posted about this incident on my Facebook group, others said I shouldn't have got down to help them as you never know how those guys would've reacted or a mob would've assembled and made things worse for me. Infact I still shudder to think what would've happened if it was 2 girls instead of guys on that scooter! I surely would've been thrashed by "knights in shining armour" emerging from the crowd.

So I guess all this reluctance to be humane and help some stranger in need, not just in case of accident but in every situation, has mostly been brought by scams/frauds/harrassment that has robbed people of their morality.

As for those pathetic "dharti ke bojhh" who click pictures/videos of these accidents instead of helping, I wish I had one of these gadgets!

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Old 4th April 2019, 14:33   #25
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Originally Posted by Utsav3010 View Post
Now, I want to highlight one major point here. Why the hell do people of India lack empathy? It is totally okay if you're not willing to help. But why are you cursing and stopping someone who's coming forward to help? And what's this nonsense you're doing with your mobiles, clicking photos and making videos? These things don't anger me, they make me really sad. Have we, as humans stooped so low that instead of helping someone in need, we resort to these cheap thrills? Where are we heading as a society, with total lack of etiquette?
Firstly, hats-off to your dad and the other unknown person who took the injured to the hospital.

I have told this elsewhere in this forum and I don't mind repeating this - My dad is alive today just because of the helmet and a good Samaritan who took him to the hospital at the right time.

Way before mobile phones (in 1991/2), when my dad was riding his Rajdhoot to office, he was hit by a truck very badly that he was in coma for the next 24 hours. He was immediately rushed to a local hospital by this gentleman. Then, he somehow tracked our address and came home to inform my mom. My dad was then shifted to CMC, Vellore for further treatment.

Two things from that incident that I always tell people -

1. Wear helmet (or, of course seat-belt)
2. Be a good Samaritan.

Last edited by callvvijay : 4th April 2019 at 14:37.
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Old 4th April 2019, 14:54   #26
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Hats off to your Dad for doing the right thing! I know the apathy and kindness (both) of people first hand. Way back in 2010 my brother was involved in a hit and run incident near Sakinaka Andheri in which he and his friend was hit by a speeding Scorpio which jumped the signal and hit them. His friend was knocked unconscious and brother got his leg broken in 3 parts. No body was coming forward and he eventually called me up almost crying in pain that he was in an accident (I cant share that feeling in words) and I was like 30 kms away in CBD belapur. There was a Doctor on the way to his clinic he helped the unconscious guy and asked somebody from the crowd to help my brother and a person (only 1) came forward to help and carried him in an Auto. I thanked both of the persons and told them that i cannot repay the debt they have over me.

I always try to slow down and see if my help is required in any such incident but I am happy to say that Pune has a lot more empathetic population and people do help out, also I have seen cops praising and helping the good Samaritans here.
In short I would say people do help and only few are sick making videos or clicking pictures of the accident victim.
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Old 4th April 2019, 15:59   #27
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The one thing that unites us all, transcending all barries, cutting across religion, socio-economic status and educational background, is a complete lack of civic sense. Where in India do you find people forming a queue without being told to do so, respecting public facilities, following traffic rules without enforcement or heck, even holding a door open for someone else? It's this same attitude that also comes into play when helping an accident victim. It's always a selfish me-first mentality and that's why the possibility of paperwork and "harassment" by the cops is somehow more important than saving a human life.

Oh and of course, let's not forget you don't want to dirty the car's perfect leather seats by transporting a victim or the Facebook likes you get by taking a video of someone in pain.

I used to think that it would change over one or two generations but barring a few good apples here and there, the majority of the basket is rotten to the core.
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Old 4th April 2019, 18:37   #28
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What else do you expect from these subhumans? Don't you see how carelessly most of the people in our country live? Why do you assume that these people would have any sort of respect or remorse for someone else's life when they doesn't even respect their own? I am honestly really happy after reading what your father did but at the same time it makes me feel sad that there's only a few people like him left in this country.
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Old 4th April 2019, 18:43   #29
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Proud to say that in my hometown Trivandrum accident victims are almost 100% sure to get immediate help.

But that was not the case before.

I remember in 1998 when I was a school kid, one of my school mate studying in 6th standard was involved in an accident.

He lay on the road bleeding to death for 45 minutes.

45 minutes a small kid was lying bleeding at Overbridge Junction at heart of Trivandrum City and no one helped. No cops, no office goers, no travellers from the nearby bus stand or railway station, no one from the nearby shops and establishments, no one from the nearby school...

At the remembrance meeting held at our school later on our Principal, a Priest spoke at length about the importance of helping accident victims and I am sure the same will be in the hearts of all 1000 of us boys who were present there...
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Old 4th April 2019, 18:58   #30
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I will tell you why we lack sympathy?

Let's read a story first.

A person (Let's call him "Ashok") met with an accident and was lying on road in need of help. Another person (let's call him "Bittu") was passing through that road on his scooter and saw him and took him to the hospital. He called up Ashok's family. When the family arrived, they thanked him for the help and all. They even exchanged their address/Contact details and Bittu left the hospital feeling proud of himself.

A few days later, Bittu had police on his door with a hit and run case against him. Apparently, Ashok had complained in his statement to police that Bittu had hit him with his scooter before he took him to hospital. Ashok wanted some compensation to settle the matter or else the case will have to go to court.

Bittu was confident that he was on the right side of the law and agreed to go to court. The court case dragged on for some 15 odd years where Bittu had to regularly go to court causing unnecessary expenses and inconvenience.

Finally, Bittu had to offer some money as on out of court settlement with Ashok to get rid of the hassle which was much more than Ashok had asked for initially.

This is a real-life story. My father is a lawyer and he had this case.

So the point is, in our country, whatever be the law, the police and judicial system drains out any sane person. For people like Ashok, they only had Bittu as an easy target who was present at the scene with no eyewitness. Clearly, he didn't deserve to be helped.

Do you think Bittu or anyone related to the story would be helping another Ashok ever again?

I am not saying all people are like Ashok but you don't know who is.

I have heard of cases where suppose there is a hit and run case and they couldn't note down the number of the vehicle involved, they just note down the number of some other vehicle present there in the FIR. Now that vehicle driver is harassed and has to prove his innocence.

The world is a dirty place. That's why most people stay away from accident victims even with the good samaritan law.
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