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Old 29th October 2019, 15:04   #1
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Default Why no female crash test dummies? Consumer Reports asks

Quoting Consumer Reports article:

Researchers have known for decades that women are more likely to be killed or injured in a car crash. Researchers have understood since at least the early 1980s that male and female bodies perform differently in crashes, but the vast majority of automotive safety policy and research is still designed to address the body of the so-called 50th percentile male—currently represented in crash tests by a 171-pound, 5-foot-9-inch dummy that was first standardized in the 1970s.

Why no female crash test dummies? Consumer Reports asks-crashtestsinjuriesdesktop.png

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-...ivers-at-risk/

Last edited by SmartCat : 29th October 2019 at 22:13.
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Old 29th October 2019, 17:18   #2
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Default Re: Why no female crash test dummies? Consumer Reports asks

The kingdom of saudi arabia now has an official reason to reverse its decision to allow women to drive .

I guess in a male dominated automotive industry there is no such thing as a female audience , let alone a crash test dummy. The problem would be to agree on what is sufficiently female. Even to agree on the 50th percentile male figure as a representative of the vast range of male body sizes would have taken some conviction. Crash test results are oversimplified conclusions. Why should the test be carried out at 40kmph and on stationary targets?. I am not a IT guy, but IMO, computer guided simulations can be used to predict crash test scenarios more accurately than an actual test. Frankly, i would not be surprised if this is already being done. Learned members can comment.

Last edited by srini1785 : 29th October 2019 at 17:19.
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Old 29th October 2019, 20:10   #3
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Default Re: Why no female crash test dummies? Consumer Reports asks

Quote:
Originally Posted by srini1785 View Post
Even to agree on the 50th percentile male figure as a representative of the vast range of male body sizes would have taken some conviction.
I don't think an average Indian male weighs 171 lb (77 kgs) and is 5'9" tall though. American dummy's weight and height:

Name:  american.jpg
Views: 1159
Size:  44.0 KB

So an 'Indian' crash test dummy representing skinny short Indian male /female is likely to see significantly higher damage in the same crash test.
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Old 30th October 2019, 10:41   #4
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Default Re: Why no female crash test dummies? Consumer Reports asks

This is not just a problem of the automotive industry.

I recently read somewhere that the SOPs in the medical industry are made keeping the male body in mind which leads to more women dying from heart attacks (and this is in developed countries). People working in air conditioned offices might have noticed that their female colleagues always feel cold and that's because the office temperature is set at the ambient temperature required for men and apparently it's different for women.

My point is, it is important that we account for 50% of our population in everything and I don't why it's so difficult to have female crash test dummies!
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Old 30th October 2019, 10:58   #5
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Default Re: Why no female crash test dummies? Consumer Reports asks

Must be the cost factor. These test dummies are very expensive and very complex piece of equipment. And they are one-use only. Then consider the crash tests, those cars are one-use only.

A single crash test will destroy one car (or two) and multiple test dummies (driver & passenger). Having male and female test dummies means repeating the test with both, basically doubles the cost.

I have seen a crash test in person, it feels so bad to see two perfect cars and all those expensive dummies getting destroyed in a fraction of a second.
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Old 30th October 2019, 11:54   #6
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Default Re: Why no female crash test dummies? Consumer Reports asks

The injustice is not just in automotive designing , it's prevalent in other areas too

More details here:

https://amp.theguardian.com/lifeands...edium=referral
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Old 30th October 2019, 12:35   #7
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Default Re: Why no female crash test dummies? Consumer Reports asks

My guess is that in the distant future, there will eventually be systems in a car that will sense your seating position, height etc to optimize the air-bag deployment for the individual to guarantee maximum safety.
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Old 30th October 2019, 13:45   #8
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Default Re: Why no female crash test dummies? Consumer Reports asks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Must be the cost factor. These test dummies are very expensive and very complex piece of equipment. And they are one-use only.
Are you sure the test dummies are for single use only, I thought only the sensors on these dummies needed re-calibration and they are good for multiple crash tests.
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Old 30th October 2019, 14:31   #9
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Default Re: Why no female crash test dummies? Consumer Reports asks

Quote:
Originally Posted by ecenandu View Post
Are you sure the test dummies are for single use only, I thought only the sensors on these dummies needed re-calibration and they are good for multiple crash tests.
Undamaged parts can be reused, since they are modular. But many parts gets bent out of shape or torn.
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Old 31st October 2019, 06:54   #10
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Default Re: Why no female crash test dummies? Consumer Reports asks

At the risk of being unpopular I'll say this is a very first world problem and is unnecessarily highlighted. Let me explain:

Firstly, automobile crash tests are very standardized procedures- much like precise science experiments under controlled conditions.

Secondly, even a man (who is the size and weight of the dummy) in a real world might not have have the same amount of protection as the dummy due to multiple factors- physiological factors, angle of collision, speed, type & weight of the vehicles in the crash, road conditions etc.

Comparing a crash test result to real world conditions is like comparing the 5 different measuring tapes to the standard definition of a meter. There are going to be deviations. If very single person needs to be protected, we all should be driving tanks with 5 inch foam padding all round on the inside.

For the sake of scalability, there are I think 2 types of dummies- one for adults and another for children. Automobile testing is a very complex experiment and generates a lot of waste- testing for 10 different dummies is unnecessary IMHO. People should be tested before they are handed their license.

Last edited by landcruiser123 : 31st October 2019 at 06:55.
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Old 31st October 2019, 09:12   #11
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Default Re: Why no female crash test dummies? Consumer Reports asks

The solution to this would be to call the dummy a gender neutral (or is it fluid?) one and assign the pronoun 'they, them'.
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Old 31st October 2019, 17:21   #12
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Default Re: Why no female crash test dummies? Consumer Reports asks

I guess it makes more sense to have dummies designed around female bodies as they are likely to suffer more damages than males. This way we always get the worst case estimates. If a vehicle passes the cash test designed around 'female' dummies, it can be fairly implied that the car is safe for males as well.
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Old 6th November 2019, 20:53   #13
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Default Re: Why no female crash test dummies? Consumer Reports asks

Why no female crash test dummies?

Err.. They are being used in testing and simulation. The 5% dummy is being to evaluate the influence of auxilliary components with front seats and rear seats. Sensors located at the head, torso and pelvis measure the deceleration. Sensors at chest measure compression (in mm) and sensors at the pelvis measure the forward displacement which helps determining submarining

The article focusses on USA. And even in the regulatory tests specified by the NHTSA and/or IIHS, 5% female is being used. Check attachment.

1. 95% Male

Mass of a 95% Male dummy: 101.3 1.6 kilograms
Source: H395 - Humanetics

2. 50% Male

Mass of a 50% Male dummy: 77.70 1.18 kilograms
Source: H350 - Humanetics

3. 5% Female

Mass of a 5% Female dummy: 49.1 0.9 kilograms
Source: H305 - Humanetics

And our own Team-BHP posts about this topic. The second one is a pdf of the same.
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/road-...ety-tests.html (Understanding Euro NCAP safety tests)
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attac...s-nutshell.pdf

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Must be the cost factor. These test dummies are very expensive and very complex piece of equipment. And they are one-use only. Then consider the crash tests, those cars are one-use only.
No dummies are single use. The cost of tests themselves are expensive, I agree. But the dummies are multi use.

The system integrity is checked after every test.
The joints are checked after every 10 tests.
The sensors are recalibrated after every 25 tests.
The parts are replaced as and when necessary and the sensors are recalibrated.

The individual parts can be found on Humanetics dummies part list for each dummies. Available as PDF if you are interested.
Part list for H395, H350, H305
Attached Thumbnails
Why no female crash test dummies? Consumer Reports asks-usa_nhtsa.png  


Last edited by VaidhiR : 6th November 2019 at 21:02.
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