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Old 20th November 2019, 13:58   #16
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Default Re: Kerala tops in near-fatal road accidents

I don't have any data or solid evidence, but speaking just from experience as a bystander on the road during short visits, I do feel that buses in Kerela and Karnataka are driven at speeds and with such recklessness that is unparalleled in the country and I'm sure that must contribute to these figures somehow.
Especially in Karnataka, it almost felt like the buses were swerving towards padestrians on the roadside like a GTA videogame, I genuinely felt scared walking on the road.
That said, dangerous driving of buses and overloaded trucks is rampant throughout the country.
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Old 20th November 2019, 14:00   #17
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Default Re: Kerala tops in near-fatal road accidents

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Originally Posted by deerhunter View Post
The number of accidental deaths per 10000 vehicles is very low in Kerala, compared to most states in India. But the number of accidents per 10000 vehicles and number of grievous injuries per 10000 vehicles are pretty high. This points to a relatively better emergency response system as well as better healthcare system.
I am not sure if it points to a better system or if it's just the other side of population and vehicle density? Given the population and vehicle density in Kerala, there is high chance that there will be enough people and vehicles near an accident site to help shift the injured to hospital - which will also probably be within reasonable distance.
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Old 20th November 2019, 14:01   #18
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Default Re: Kerala tops in near-fatal road accidents

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Originally Posted by deerhunter View Post
This points to a relatively better emergency response system as well as better healthcare system.

So, many accidents which would have caused deaths in most other states in India, caused only injuries in Kerala. As a result, the number of serious injuries in Kerala is pretty high, but the number of deaths is pretty low.

Data from here.
One of the reasons for fast response can be because most of Kerala's towns are more or less road side and stretch along the highway. As such it's difficult to find barren stretches without habitation and as such immediate help is probably on hand.
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Old 20th November 2019, 14:02   #19
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Default Re: Kerala tops in near-fatal road accidents

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Originally Posted by deerhunter View Post
This data can be interpreted in a different way.

The number of accidental deaths per 10000 vehicles is very low in Kerala, compared to most states in India. But the number of accidents per 10000 vehicles and number of grievous injuries per 10000 vehicles are pretty high. This points to a relatively better emergency response system as well as better healthcare system.

So, many accidents which would have caused deaths in most other states in India, caused only injuries in Kerala. As a result, the number of serious injuries in Kerala is pretty high, but the number of deaths is pretty low.

Data from here.
Maybe like everything, there are more people everywhere to tend to accidents, more ambulances and more hospitals
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Old 20th November 2019, 14:37   #20
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Default Re: Kerala tops in near-fatal road accidents

I drive through the states of Maharashtra, Gujarat, Karnataka and Tamil Nadu a few times every year. On a whim earlier this year we decided to drive down to Wayanad from Pune. As usual the drive from Pune to Hassan and the Kerala border was smooth sailing.
The drive from Tholpetty to Wayanad was just miserable. The roads were rough and devoid of any planning. The traffic was crazy and the private bus drivers intentionally harassed smaller vehicles and cut them off at the first possible opportunity. All in all, it was one of my worst drives. The natural beauty of the region is completely overshadowed by the uncivilized road behaviour. Never again. My wife wants to drive down to Trivandrum next month and I will probably take her anywhere but the roads of Kerala.

Last edited by Aditya : 20th November 2019 at 18:31. Reason: Edited. Sounds like insult to Kerala and local people of Wayanad
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Old 20th November 2019, 16:00   #21
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Default Re: Kerala tops in near-fatal road accidents

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Originally Posted by yd_gli View Post
The natural beauty of the region is completely overshadowed by the uncivilized road behavior. Never again. My wife wants to drive down to Trivandrum next month and I will probably take her anywhere but the roads of Kerala.
I feel that this post is a total insult to Kerala and people of Wayanad. I have been to Pune last year. The traffic at Pune is much worse than that of Trivandrum.

Last edited by Aditya : 20th November 2019 at 18:33. Reason: Quoted text edited
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Old 20th November 2019, 16:09   #22
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Default Re: Kerala tops in near-fatal road accidents

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I feel that this post is a total insult to Kerala and people of Wayanad. I have been to Pune last year. The traffic at Pune is much worse than that of Trivandrum.
Wow, I didn't mean it as an insult dude. Traffic in Pune is a disaster I agree, but I don't get run off by buses at high speeds at every second corner. Probably due to bigger roads but it's not as unsafe for sure.
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Old 20th November 2019, 16:15   #23
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Default Re: Kerala tops in near-fatal road accidents

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I feel that this post is a total insult to Kerala and people of Wayanad. I have been to Pune last year. The traffic at Pune is much worse than that of Trivandrum.
Private buses on Kerala roads (especially Malabar region) are very very dangerous. I have few scary experience with these buses.

Most of the Kerala roads are 2 lane and windy. Some people especially tourists have no idea about how to drive on these hilly roads. I have seen enough idiots who drive dangerously on ghat roads like the way they drive in plains.
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Old 20th November 2019, 17:08   #24
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Default Re: Kerala tops in near-fatal road accidents

Is it also because most of the accidents are reported in Kerala while that is not the case in other states? Remember Kerala was also somewhere at the top of the list in terms of crimes reported. A few of my observations about Kerala - driving after consumption of alcohol is pretty common; most of the private buses and dumper trucks are driven rashly; most of the interior roads are with a lot of turns and twists and ups and downs, however people still tend to do overtaking maneuvers around blind turns often leading to accidents.
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Old 20th November 2019, 19:36   #25
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Default Re: Kerala tops in near-fatal road accidents

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Originally Posted by anb View Post
You can't conclude after seeing just a one video. You have to look into the facts and numbers.How many accidents did Minnal buses make ? These buses are running for more than 2 years and no of accidents reported is very less. AFAIK, there was only one life lost (Kayamkulam)so far due to the Minnal bus accidents.

Kattappana(my place)- Trivandrum minnal service is operating for more than 2.5 years and till date not even one accident is reported. This is mainly due to bus has 2 drivers ( driver cum conductor) and one driver drives half way and the other driver drives the rest. So accident chance are less than most of the regular KSRTC services which mostly has one driver.
Mr. Anb, you are seriously mistaken.

"No accidents until now" "I have been driving for 20 years without accident" - these are the most common excuses given by rash drivers - be it car or bus or truck. There is a huge misconception, that a track record of no accidents is a testament of a persons miraculous talent and superhuman control over the vehicle he/she is driving. Wrong. Accidents can happen to anyone, anytime. Even F1 drivers and rally drivers meet with accidents, and they are the best in the world, when it comes to lightning reflexes.

KSRTC drivers are not people with 'inborn racing talent' , they are ordinary people, who wanted the assurance and longevity of a govt job, and underwent some training for it. That's it. Nothing more. Being from kerala, there is a 40-50% chance that a KSRTC driver drinks. Yes. Its a statistical reality in KL, the state which consumes the most per capita liquor in our country. Atleast half the male population drinks. So naturally, just like the rest of the KL population, there is a high chance that at any given point of time, some KSRTC buses are under drink-drive. I am simply stating a statistical likelihood, I have no personal interest in tarnishing professional drivers.

With this in mind, consider other 'auxiliary factors' for accidents :
1. narrow roads and high vehicle density, high population density.
2. the same govt which acts as messiah in sending traffic police to enforce "rules" on private vehicle owners , sets 'impossible target times' for KSRTC buses to go from one point to another. Excuses like "oh, one is police dept, other is transport etc" is total BS. There is no excuse. Any bureaucrat with even a medium amount of power in these departments can set things right. Setting realistic target times for govt buses - that is the lowest hanging fruit to solve, in this whole mess that has to be untangled.
3. Why can't the KSRTC department equip all their buses, regardless of class of service, with speed governors which prohibit vehicle from travelling beyond 70kph ? the same limit that they wish to impose on every other vehicle plying on KL roads ? Why the double standards ?
4. It is not as if KSRTC is a great profit making organization which needs to 'maintain existing customer base and attract new customers' from "rival" buses by showcasing speed of travel from A to B. KSRTC have monopolized almost all lucrative trunk routes in KL roads and will get passengers anyway, regardless of private bus services.

All this nonsense mismanagement from a state bus corporation, which has been historically running insurmountable losses, and is THE highest cost/bus and cost/km operated bus corporation in india. If there was ever an example on how to atrociously mismanage a state-run business which despite having a monopoly, plus having the advantage of daily cash collection revenue, this is it. UTTER FAILURE.

So, no matter what you say, Mr.Anb, many innocent lives are lost on KL roads in accidents involving KSRTC buses , purely because arrogant drivers think they are the kings of the road and supported by their very employer who sets unrealistic target timings to achieve, giving them the perfect fall-back excuse - "dept has asked us to maintain timings". No timing is more important than human life. The risk/reward equation for a public transport driver is atleast 40/50 times skewed heavily on the side of caution, than that of a private vehicle driver; simply because he is not responsible for 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 lives, he is responsible for 40/50 lives. If that means driving at less than 70kph and not driving rashly, with relaxed target timings, SO BE IT.

Last edited by venkyhere : 20th November 2019 at 19:38.
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Old 20th November 2019, 20:56   #26
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Default Re: Kerala tops in near-fatal road accidents

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Originally Posted by venkyhere View Post
Mr. Anb, you are seriously mistaken.


With this in mind, consider other 'auxiliary factors' for accidents :
1. narrow roads and high vehicle density, high population density.
Mr.Venky, I was telling about the Minnal service of KSRTC bus. Minnal service mostly runs from mid night to early morning. Is high vehicle density and high population density is applicable from midnight to early morning Mr.Venky ?
Jeeva is blaming Minnal service. Minnal service has started 2.5 years back and it is the most successful service operated in the history of KSRTC and it has very low accident rate, still people are blaming the service for no reason. From where did you get the data that 50 percent drivers drive under the influence of alcohol ? In reality it is less than 1 percent. KSRTC is operating about 6000 buses in Kerala. So automatically no of accidents involving KSRTC buses will be high. Every state operated road corporation is in loss as there is no support for the public transport system from centre and state govts. Karnataka rtc losses amount to Rs.2200 crore in last 3 years. Everyone don't have the luxury of travelling in a car when they want to reach the destination quickly, so they choose buses.

Last edited by GTO : 22nd November 2019 at 09:54. Reason: A rude tone is STRICTLY prohibited on Team-BHP. Be polite & respectful, even in debate
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Old 20th November 2019, 21:24   #27
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Default Re: Kerala tops in near-fatal road accidents

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I feel that this post is a total insult to Kerala and people of Wayanad. I have been to Pune last year. The traffic at Pune is much worse than that of Trivandrum.
I think he has a fair point - for someone used to driving in roads with dividers and civilized bus drivers, Kerala is scary. Even I, someone who grew up driving in trivandrum, find the initial couple of weeks driving in trivandrum scary, when visiting from Chennai - where the buses are all driven by gentle souls, and the roads all have dividers.
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Old 20th November 2019, 21:26   #28
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Default Re: Kerala tops in near-fatal road accidents

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Being from kerala, there is a 40-50% chance that a KSRTC driver drinks. Yes. Its a statistical reality in KL, the state which consumes the most per capita liquor in our country
This has been statistically proven wrong many times. The Per capita liquor consumption is high, because of the higher incomes in the state, but its not the highest in the country.

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Originally Posted by venkyhere View Post
1. narrow roads and high vehicle density, high population density
This is the major cause of accidents in the state. People have become richer than the govt, hence there are more vehicles than roads now. Unlike other states, most families have 2 cars, because both the men and women in a family, drive even in the rural areas. So the vehicle density is around 450 cars/1000 people. This is almost uniform in the entire state unlike other states, where there are pockets of high density.

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Originally Posted by venkyhere View Post
2. the same govt which acts as messiah in sending traffic police to enforce "rules" on private vehicle owners , sets 'impossible target times' for KSRTC buses to go from one point to another.
The timings in the schedule are realistic. KSRTC quotes 6.5 hours for a distance of 200kms from Ernakulam to Trivandrum, which is 30kmph on a national highway! Besides KeSRTC buses take more time than KaSRTC buses from Bangalore to Ernakulam. Hence they are slower than other transport departments.

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Originally Posted by venkyhere View Post
3. Why can't the KSRTC department equip all their buses, regardless of class of service, with speed governors which prohibit vehicle from travelling beyond 70kph?
Yes, speed governors are there. This is why private buses registered in Karnataka take far less time for Bangalore to Ernakulam journeys.

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Originally Posted by venkyhere View Post
4.THE highest cost/bus and cost/km operated bus corporation in india.
The high cost is due to the high labour costs and high land prices. Even the Central Govt ministry has issued a statement that Land Prices in Kerala are the highest in the country and hence Land acqusition is nearly impossible here. To understand how expensive, the prices of land inside the city of Hubli and in the outskirts of a small town in Kerala are equal. Also, labour costs are so high, there are a large number of migrant workers from tiny villages from Bihar and Bengal, these labourers come in General compartments on trains, but when they go back for festivals they do so on an Indigo Kochi-Kolkata flight.

The study also ranks Kerala on the 33rd position for deaths due to accidents. So even though there are accidents in the state, fatality is lesser. This is due to the better availability of emergency services in the state. There are good hospitals available even in tiny villages. This is when, in other states, people travel over 200kms to access healthcare.

Another factor in the low fatality is the choice of cars being used. Outside the state, the most common mass transport vehicle being used are the Force Toofan and the Tata Sumo. Inside the state, its the Traveller and Innova which are used as taxis. And the Toofans being used on the highways are always stuffed with people, and people actually travel on the roofs and hanging from the sides.

Even personal transport, most cars in the state are the highest variants, which come with maximum safety features, this is not the case in other places, even in Delhi, where most cars being sold are the entry or mid variants. Also, people here also prefer safer cars like VW, Jeep and Toyota, which are a rare sight elsewhere.
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Old 20th November 2019, 21:28   #29
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Default Re: Kerala tops in near-fatal road accidents

The root cause of the problem is solely down to the people. Come to Cochin and see how impatient motorists perilously ignore signals, people on two wheeler ride on the wrong side of the road into moving traffic to jump ahead (or into the grave, depending on their luck), cars use the slingshot move to bully the vehicle in front out of their way and so on. Yes, some of these are common in big cities but the prevailing sense of rashness and lack of self preservation wasnt there in Kerala earlier. On several occasions, I have got into arguments with other bikers who were so far on the wrong side of the road and directly in front of me that they were not even close to the middle of the road! They have tried to lecture me and tell me to move out of the way for them (??!!) and they have even asked me where I am from, dont they know that this is how Cochin operates and so on.

To put things in context, I have recently been to one of the states in the north east part of our country and the level of patience, empathy and road sense that they displayed puts the rest of the country to shame. Returning to Kerala from that trip was a dismal experience to say the least.

Quite frankly, it is embarrassing to realize that the state with the highest literacy levels in the country has the highest near fatal road accident statistics as well.

P.S - Before anyone accuses me of bashing the state, I would like to chip in that I am very much a Keralite.
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Old 21st November 2019, 02:59   #30
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Default Re: Kerala tops in near-fatal road accidents

While everyone drives recklessly, I believe that bus and lorry drivers are required to have a higher degree of safety while driving.

I can't speak for North India, but in Tamil Nadu, Karnataka and Kerala, bus drivers both private and government, can qualify for being clinically insane. I give a wide berth to buses be it the city or the highway, and on that extremely rare occasion that a bus driver uses his indicators, I don't get angry, even if he cuts me off, because bless his kind soul for atleast that much decency. The rest of the lot play with others lives and vehicles, with no concern whatsoever for safety, or for that matter, practicality.

The Government is equally to be blamed for setting unrealistic targets. There is nothing that can be done, as the government bus drivers get their orders from the higher ups. There is an interesting case in Karnataka, where a lawyer has filed a PIL with a very different perspective. You can't really file a case asking them to drive more sensibly as it wouldn't completely fall within the purview of the court, but this lawyer has taken an interesting approach. The Public interest litigation has been filed to protect the health of the BUS DRIVERS as these unrealistic schedules have an impact on their health and over all well being. Let us see how this case plays out.

In the meanwhile, could someone create a thread exclusively for reckless driving by bus drivers especially government bus drivers. We just might be able to acquire enough evidence on this matter for future use. There are already several videos on the accident forum, but a separate one for buses might be a lot more informative and useful.
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