[S15]

Originally Posted by shibujp

Tata and Mahindra are using this as a clever marketing exercise, actually sponsoring the tests so that their higher variants are used for the test and using the results as marketing collateral.


Drive on,
Shibu

Tata, maybe, but I'm not sure about Mahindra. The XUV that was tested was a 2 airbag variant, not a 7 airbag variant. And the Thar and Marazzo are pretty much same safety-wise, base to top.

But I agree that they both dont send the cars that they are not confident in. example: Harrier, TUV300 etc etc.

Yes, I drive a Baleno RS and feel as safe in it as the Polo GT TDI I previously owned. I am as nervous in both of doing speeds north of the ton primarily because of the unpredictable nature of our roads more than anything else. Simple things like well delineated road lanes, cats eye reflectors have been a huge aid to me in driving. Even ensuring that trucks mandatorily have taillights (I came across at least 10 yesterday in a 100km distance driving at night) and stopping violators from proceeding would itself have saved many more lives lost at night...and the list is endless. By un-necessarily blowing the GNCAP tests out of proportion all of these are being swept under the carpet which is the saddest aspect of it all.

Very aptly put.

[ani_meher]

Originally Posted by shibujp

Simple things like well delineated road lanes, cats eye reflectors ... Even ensuring that trucks mandatorily have taillights ... stopping violators from proceeding would itself have saved many more lives lost at night...and the list is endless. By un-necessarily blowing the GNCAP tests out of proportion all of these are being swept under the carpet which is the saddest aspect of it all.

Out of all the things you mentioned, you can control only one thing, the car you drive. All others are external entities you have no control on. Hence, it is better to choose only the best protection if that is all you can control.

If only external factors decided fate or even a possibility of an accident, developed countries would have versions of tin-cars with zero stars, because these external things are already taken care of.

I also support the testing of lowest version of the car, irrespective of the incremental price of next safer version. If the seller decides to value peanuts over safety, let it show in the score card.

[TrackDay]

Everyone knows about this. And it is not going to change anything. People will still flock to the brand for Resale value and Peace of mind. This is a herd mentality.

[airbus]

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[charanreddy]

Originally Posted by S15

Which is why I'm more offended by the pursuit of sensationalism by NCAP, instead of a useful rating.

GNCAP has a standard policy. They test the lowest variant. If they tested the lowest variant of Maruti Vs mid variant of Tata, then there is a case for sensationalism or bias. Maruti has to pull their socks up.

Originally Posted by shibujp

actually sponsoring the tests so that their higher variants are used for the test and using the results as marketing collateral.

If true , then this is manipulating results. GNCAP loses its credibility and Maruti should / would bring this up. They haven't till now and hence I don't believe this completely.

Originally Posted by shibujp

And lastly for all the furore directed at Maruti, how many of us are ready to pledge to drive safety. Safety is not just about your car protecting you, it is about avoiding accidents in the first place. I am unclear for all the heated arguments how a safer car structure is going to seriously bring down the daily fatality rate of a life every 4 minutes. Food for thought indeed.

Simple things like well delineated road lanes, cats eye reflectors have been a huge aid to me in driving. Even ensuring that trucks mandatorily have taillights (I came across at least 10 yesterday in a 100km distance driving at night) and stopping violators from proceeding would itself have saved many more lives lost at night...and the list is endless. By un-necessarily blowing the GNCAP tests out of proportion all of these are being swept under the carpet which is the saddest aspect of it all.

Shibu

All you said is true, but that doesn't take the responsibility off Maruti for providing unsafe cars and demean Indian customers in the process ! With all you said, it makes more sense for us consumers to choose the best protection there is and talk openly about manufacturers that don't do their part. It all boils down to voting with your Wallet and these threads / discussions make sure customers are informed. I don't see anything wrong with that.

[gopalnt]

Maruti SA never mentions any changes to body structure to the S-Presso car sold there, in their tweet. They simply talk about additional airbags, etc. So the body structure could still be same as what is sold in our country.

[S15]

Originally Posted by ani_meher

Out of all the things you mentioned, you can control only one thing, the car you drive. All others are external entities you have no control on. Hence, it is better to choose only the best protection if that is all you can control.

If only external factors decided fate or even a possibility of an accident, developed countries would have versions of tin-cars with zero stars, because these external things are already taken care of.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/road-...wo-trucks.html (Shocking Crash Test: What happens to a car between two trucks)

Originally Posted by charanreddy

GNCAP has a standard policy. They test the lowest variant. If they tested the lowest variant of Maruti Vs mid variant of Tata, then there is a case for sensationalism or bias. Maruti has to pull their socks up.

All the three cars have alloy wheels. Means they're either the top variant, or one below. Definitely not base.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBjbrmdJ2AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yL1JgzfBvWk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqkIjvSV6Zs

[Durango Dude]

I'm reminded of the James Hadley Chase novel "The way the cookie crumbles" when I read or hear of the 0 NCAP rating of "Cookie" called Spresso! When Govt really takes a hard look at crashworthiness most of MSIL's models will need to be either axed or made more safe by adding requisite features and strengthening at the weak points.

[airbus]

Originally Posted by S15

All the three cars have alloy wheels. Means they're either the top variant, or one below. Definitely not base.

I think the safety kit of the variant tested is standard across all variants. Say 2 airbags + ABS is standard across all variants. Otherwise if an option is given, manufacturers might send a variant with top class safety kit for testing, which may not be standard across all variants and then claim that model is X star rated.

Saw recent interview of Pawan Kumar Goenka after Thar was crash tested by GNCAP. He mentioned that only thing that is not standard of the crash tested variant is the hard top and that really don't add for safety in comparison to the convertible top.

[rudrakshmahajan]

Originally Posted by airbus

I think the safety kit of the variant tested is standard across all variants. Say 2 airbags + ABS is standard across all variants. Otherwise if an option is given, manufacturers might send a variant with top class safety kit for testing, which may not be standard across all variants and then claim that model is X star rated.

Saw recent interview of Pawan Kumar Goenka after Thar was crash tested by GNCAP. He mentioned that only thing that is not standard of the crash tested variant is the hard top and that really don't add for safety in comparison to the convertible top.

+1. GNCAP tests only considers the standard features. The basic airbags and ABS should be available in all and then the car can be tested. That's what happened with the Thar.

Also, the point on Maruti. What I find frustrating is that they treat safety as a feature. That thought process in itself is not correct, vision wise. Sure, you want to make a profit. By all means. It's a free market. However, there are certain standards by which we should hold our market leader (50% passenger). Maruti should lead by example.

Instead they're releasing twitter retorts to Tata saying "we're Dil se safe". That kind of attitude should not be tolerated by the public. While the government improves these basics, I believe car makers should cut corners elsewhere to make their vehicles accessible. Not this.

[Dry Ice]

Originally Posted by S15

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/road-...wo-trucks.html (Shocking Crash Test: What happens to a car between two trucks)



All the three cars have alloy wheels. Means they're either the top variant, or one below. Definitely not base.

Doesn't matter for cars you mention.

That's one of the operating principles of GNCAP, they initially tested the base models as they usually had the least safety kit (missing airbags/ABS).

Now though, in terms of safety kit, most OEMs offer them as standard across the range.

[S15]

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

Doesn't matter for cars you mention.

That's one of the operating principles of GNCAP, they initially tested the base models as they usually had the least safety kit (missing airbags/ABS).

Now though, in terms of safety kit, most OEMs offer them as standard across the range.

Then why this discrimination for s-presso, deliberately choosing the variant with one airbag, when the two airbag variant was merely 6 thousand rupees more? (see post #5 if not already seen)




Anyways, I've made my points here, I've said what I wanted to say. Now I'm out of this thread. I feel like:

a) we're going on in circles
b) Tata fanboys in this forum are averse to logic

GNCAP deliberately chose the variant with one airbag and no pre-tensioners ---> But thats okay, only base variant should be tested

Literally three examples of Tata's top variant being tested ---> But safety features are standard in them. Sorry, but weren't we discussing the "RULES"? I'm sick and tired of these ever-moving goalposts.

I dont care about what is standard and what is not, I wanted to see what an S-presso with two airbags and a pre-tensioner gets, and I cannot. And I reckon this is deliberate on the part of Global NCAP for sensationalism.

Again, I'm out, and no matter who quotes my post, I'm not re-posting in this thread, having already made my point.
Peace.

[landcruiser123]

Honestly the debate should be about how do we get the Indian government to pass a bill for safety regulations and conduct crash tests on new launches?

When we can have world-class highways with speed limits of 100-120 kmph, I think we deserve safety features too. Also, they should start reducing insurance premiums for people why buy safer cars.

Originally Posted by S15

Is Global NCAP wrong in picking the variant with one airbag, when there's a variant with 2 airbags and pre-tensioners merely 7 thousand rupees away? Also yes.

I respectfully disagree here. Reasons:
1. All buyers are equal valuable and deserve the same safety features whether they buy the cheapest or the most expensive variant of a car
2. The (o) versions are a mere hogwash my MSIL. Good luck buying one of those - the salesmen will dissuade you as the waiting periods are high.

[Dry Ice]

Originally Posted by S15

Then why this discrimination for s-presso, deliberately choosing the variant with one airbag, when the two airbag variant was merely 6 thousand rupees more? (see post #5 if not already seen)

Ok, let me try to explain again.

GNCAP by default picks the least safe variant.

For Tata and Mahindra cars that were tested, there is no difference in the base or top variants w.r.t safety features. All safety features are the same across the range.

As explained by another member above, Mahindra discontinued all other variants of Thar which did not have the same safety features as the model tested by GNCAP.

It is not so with Maruti. They offer the base variant with the minimum possible safety equipment they can get away with. So there is a difference in Maruti's base and top variants.

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by Starfire

I can't entirely agree. Every life matters, not just of those who buy cars of higher variants. Choosing a higher variant for a crash test will give a false sense of safety to those buying lower variant cars which may mislead them when purchasing the car in the first place and might end up costing their life.

7 thousand rupees may be nothing for you, but it can be a whole month's worth salary to a poor labourer who's saved up for 5 years to buy a car.

Labourer who saves for 5 years to buy a car with 7000 rs monthy income ? Lets be real.No "labourer" will buy a used car, much less a new car. Perhaps you need to elaborate on the definition of labourer.