[electric_eel]

Originally Posted by Bagheera

I would suggest that you focus on Defensive driving more than just repeatedly doing panic braking which seems pointless. It's just stomping on the brakes, what you instead need to do is to improve your reaction time.

I agree that defensive driving is something that should be ingrained in anyone who is serious about driving and believe that many of the defensive driving techniques have saved me from quite a few problematic situations (for close to 15 years now).

However there is a place for panic braking in any defensive driver's repertoire. Genuine panic situation are more or less by definition more dangerous. Together with the fact that it is really rare, one does need to know how to prepare for it. In fact UK license test I believe has a panic braking check as well. If it has to be part of the standard license testing protocol then I believe there should be a good reason for it.

[Bagheera]

Originally Posted by electric_eel

Genuine panic situation are more or less by definition more dangerous. Together with the fact that it is really rare, one does need to know how to prepare for it. In fact UK license test I believe has a panic braking check as well. If it has to be part of the standard license testing protocol then I believe there should be a good reason for it.

Ah, I get your point. I was thinking along the lines of practicing braking by oneself which surely is pointless because you would know before you decide to brake.

But, yes, having someone else randomly asking you to stop while making sure it is safe to do so may be beneficial. But, I might argue even then that you're mentally prepared for the alert while practicing, which might not be the case in real life.

To share my experience, the really panic braking that I remember I did where the ABS kicked in and all was when somebody ran up from behind a parked vehicle on the left across the road about a car length ahead of me to catch a bus I believe. My foot was already on the brake seeing the bus stopped in the oncoming lane. Hence, my suggestion for defensive driving. Thankfully, I braked in time that the person ran halfway across the road and back infront of my car.

To be fair, with 15 of years driving under your belt that too in our Indian conditions with unpredictable two wheelers and autorickshaws, I could say that you have nothing to fear. In UK and other countries, with obviously better and more organised driving practices, it is easier to be lulled into a state of complacency which cannot be afforded while driving here in India.

[AJ56]

I’m a 100% confident I can panic brake as it’s happened many times over the last 10+ years of driving. Note I’m defining panic braking as everything from moderately hard braking, all the way to a 100% brake pedal application and everything in between as a full pedal down is exceedingly rare.

In Indian conditions you can be as defensive as you want, sooner or later someone or something will pop right in front of you resulting in a rather hard brake application to maintain overall safety. If you’re not confident of stopping in shortest possible distance in an emergency, you should not be driving without supervision in my opinion, practice until you have near perfect muscle memory as you don’t have time to think or reason in actual emergencies on the road.

Additionally, as a good driver you must know where your exact brake lock up point is and how to feel it through the pedal. Even though nearly all cars now have ABS (vintage/classic cars notwithstanding), understanding where your lock up point is and how it changes dynamically depending on surface type and weather conditions will greatly improve your safety as you’ll be able to brake right up to the point of lock up and not go over, avoiding unnecessary ABS activation.

Also understand how braking affects weight distribution, something every performance/race car driver is familiar with. Braking always pushes the nose down, increasing grip on the front tyres and reducing the grip on the rears, hence the saying you never brake too hard mid corner or you’ll lose traction on the rear wheels.

Trail braking is another effective technique for taking corners fast while using the brakes to maintain grip as easing off the pedal as you enter the corner but never fully releasing to maintain extra grip on the fronts.

I’ll add that braking is just one aspect of evading and avoiding a potential obstacle on the road, quick and precise evasive steering is an equally important aspect of being a good driver, with certain complex situations often requiring both, hard braking and evasive steering to counter safely.

Ultimately, if you feel you’re not lacking skills in anything (driving or otherwise), the best solution is do more of it and practice in controlled environments, take your road car on a track or at the very least practice on good racing simulator (using a force feedback wheel) to understand the mechanics of braking and steering at higher speeds, simulators are great tool for practicing and learning to correct upset situations, in complete safety.

[Bagheera]

Originally Posted by Bagheera

To be fair, with 15 of years driving under your belt that too in our Indian conditions with unpredictable two wheelers and autorickshaws, I could say that you have nothing to fear.

In retrospect, I see how bad this sounds when people far more experienced driving could make such issues. But, while a new driver may be excused for mistaking the A and B pedals at time of delivery of new car or while taking it to parking lot after delivery, If a experienced driver makes such an issue, it is surely due to carelessness and lack of attention. Focus and presence of mind is necessary while driving and if you feel drifting off, it is better to take a break and recuperate.

[BullettuPaandi]

Might be controversial, but I believe Gaming could help.

First, let me disclose that I don't own a car; my driving experience is minuscule- just one half-our session of driving in driving school, the test which barely counts, and I'd say about 3-5hrs in total in my sisters' Santro AMT. Other than these, well it has just been good old me and my good old Logitech G27.

But, I truly believe that some form of 'cheap thrill' which you can safely experience, where you can really put your foot down and get a sense of the limits that you are dealing with, would be helpful when it comes to learning the limits of an actual car, which I think is crucial for safety.

The effectiveness of sim racing here, heavily varies depending on various factors of the setup such as force feedback capabilities, accuracy of the game physics, ergonomics, etc. It is for this reason that, one of my sort of 'wishlist' or 'to do' things is to get into go-karting before I buy a car. I see that as just an extension/upgrade of the cheap thrill that I'm currently into.

I know I don't even have anecdotal evidence of what I'm talking about. But this is just what I have in mind - basically, just get to understand the mechanics and limits of a vehicle, as soon and safely as possible, so that while on road I'd be largely de-sensitised about the rudimentary functions in legal speeds, and be able to focus on driving safely from the get go.

I could be wrong, but at least it's a cool idea.

[dhanushs]

Well, in atleast in ESP equipped cars, you can be 100% confident and just punch into the pedal immeditely. The stability systems reaction times are very very short (~20ms) and are caliberated to keep the car in line to the driver intended line. They will send induvidual brake pressure to each wheels, will prevent wheel lock up and also prevent any yaw moment (lateral movement) on the car.

You just need to focus on steering towards the right direction.

[Thyag]

Well, you have to know the limitations - yours and mainly your car's. You can't do high speed in a tin can and expect it to stop whenever you want like in a performance car.

Practical Experience only will give you confidence, all the theoretical knowledge goes down the drain in "panic" situations. Be observant, vigilant and avoid any kind of distractions while driving - mostly you will be safe, can't assure 100% of it in India though

[electric_eel]

Originally Posted by Bagheera

In retrospect, I see how bad this sounds when people far more experienced driving could make such issues. But, while a new driver may be excused for mistaking the A and B pedals at time of delivery of new car or while taking it to parking lot after delivery, If a experienced driver makes such an issue, it is surely due to carelessness and lack of attention. Focus and presence of mind is necessary while driving and if you feel drifting off, it is better to take a break and recuperate.

Yes. I would normally think that such confusion comes due to bad techniques becoming a habit after picking it up early in ones driving (like clutching before braking) together with the lack of discipline as I mentioned in the thread about the BEST bus incident. But the number of instances I hear seems to be many, particularly among experienced drivers moving from MT to AT/EV. May be instead of improving the driving continuously, experience might have just solidified bad practices in these drivers. Continuous review of one's technique and self awareness is probably the only way around I think.

[Bagheera]

Originally Posted by BullettuPaandi

I could be wrong, but at least it's a cool idea.

I would as well suggest BeamNG, so that one can push the limits and be aware of the consequences of speeding when going over the limits.

But , I agree with your point. Driving a mere 120 bhp AE86 (No TC and ABS) in Asseto corsa in the Nürburgring tourist lap and spinning out at the first corner put my skills in perspective for me.

[Guna]

Originally Posted by electric_eel

With many A pedal being confused with B pedal stories doing the round in this forum, I am becoming less and less confident whether I will be able to pull it of in a real panic situation.

People who slam the wrong pedal in panic situations are the ones who have the habit of taking off the feet (actually the 'heel') completely. Heel should be planted and you move the tip of your feet in V shape (slight sliding or little bit of lifting is OK depending on the pedal positions in a specific car) between A and B pedals.
But I believe that whether one can apply panic brake in time or come out of any situation which needs split second reaction depends on one's reflex. Those who are not gifted with great reflex should always pay extra attention while on the road.