[SlowDough]

I ride motorcycles. 90% of my motorcycling kms have been covered on the highways.

If you ever see a motorcyclist riding in the middle of a lane, keeping a safe distance behind the next car, and not changing lanes before the turn signal blinks thrice, and provided that the vehicle approaching from behind is not at a higher speed or approach, that would be me.

When I do this in the fast lane, guess who has a problem? Both cars and bikes, but especially cars. They honk the loudest. They are offended by a motorcyclist trying to follow discipline as much as they are offended by a motorcyclist who rides around like a mosquito, while at the same time, they are not keeping a safe distance, nor giving me my space. When I do this in the slow lane, guess who has a problem? Both cars and bikes, but especially cars. All the same observations related to offence and hypocrisy apply. When I do this in the middle lane, guess who has a problem? Both cars and bikes, but especially cars. All the same observations related to offence and hypocrisy apply. When I do this off the highway, on a service lane - you get my point, I hope you do.

This is a very political discussion. It is like asking one political party what the rules of democracy should be concerning the other political party. I am surprised, yet not surprised, by the amount of hypocrisy in this entire thread. Fact is that we are all offenders when we are on the road. But the road is not owned by anyone. It is a public infrastructure. Rules need to be created to regulate behavior rather than giving unfair advantage in the name of subjective concerns such as safety.

You cannot ask a person not to board a Shatabdi because they walk with a stick and cause inconvenience to others or are at danger of being hurt by a mob unable to regulate their own boarding behavior, but you can provide a specialized boarding procedure so that everyone onboards conveniently. Professional airlines do that.

You cannot ask women to stay at home because men cannot regulate themselves. The world is a public infrastructure. Asking motorcyclists to not enter the expressway is like victimizing one party due to inability to regulate the entire system much the same way that we victimize women because we are unable regulate the entire social system.

If all the arguments in this thread were valid, there should be no motorcyclists on any road. No cyclists either. I don't think I should be allowed to walk on the public footpath either because apparently, many don't care about where we park our vehicles, and I might bump into one during my evening stroll.

Come on people. We are fellow petrol heads. I am heartbroken to see a forum as passionate about being on the road have such a view.

[v1p3r]

Allow all 2Ws onto all roads. The developed world allows >50cc 2Ws onto all highways and doesn't seem to have a problem. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regula...ss_on_freeways

Our problem isn't the bikes, it's how badly we drive. Tractor stopped randomly in the middle of a highway in the fast lane, truck coming down the wrong side, cows crossing at random - these are all facts of life on most Indians highways, whether access controlled or not. These are merely the most egregious. In fact, if every 'No' voter can cross their heart and say they've always indicated, always followed the speed limit, and are a model driver, I'll eat my hat and someone's helmet.

What we're seeing here is merely the superiority of rich, internet-using, English-speaking 4W owners. Banning 2Ws from access controlled roads using the bogeymen of traffic (Sea Link) or safety (expressways) is disingenuous. If someone crashes and dies, that's on them. I find it hard to believe that 7 people in an Alto, or 18 in a Trax with bald tyres and prehistoric brakes are much safer at speed.

[VaibhavShatna95]

I can think of a simpler solution. There needs to be certification for expressways on what sort of automobiles be it a bus/car/2 wheeler/3 wheeler can attain the speed comfortably to ply on that highway. This algorithm can be build upon Fasttag. No RC, no checking needed. It can be automated.

Hopefully someone reads this with links to push up to the governmental chain.

[Comrade]

I disagree with determining eligibility based on size or class of the vehicle.

All expressways should have a minimum speed enforced along with maximum speed. Any vehicle moving too slow (impeading traffic) should be fined and escorted to next exit. Whether it's a car or a truck or a motorcycle.

This will allow access to all.

[antz.bin]

Anybody willing to pay the toll should be allowed on the highway / expressway. Govt. can feel free to collect the appropriate toll based on the vehicle type (2W, 4W, MoreW etc.).

ANYBODY Who is not paying toll should not be allowed on an access controlled toll road.

AFAIK, NICE Road in Bangalore allows 2 wheelers that pay the toll to ply. Same situation on the Yamuna Expressway. (I know because I have paid toll for my motorcycle on both those roads) The same speed limits and rules apply for everyone. Do these motorcyclists cause a problem for the cars driving on these roads? Or are there too many 2-wheelers on these roads that the car drivers feel threatened somehow? I would really like to know this from firsthand experience of fellow Team-BHPians on those 2 roads specifically.

If a motorcyclist is willing to pay a toll of Rs.2/km to save their time, who is anyone to stop them from doing so? A person riding a Splendor / Activa will probably not pay this amount since their travel cost just double or more due to this toll while not being able to save too much time. But someone riding a 250cc KTM / 650cc RE might not mind as much since the saving in time will be substantial and the lower traffic might lead to overall better FE and almost the same cost!

As far as skill to do it is concerned, it is a risk that the motorcyclist has chosen to take, let us make that choice for ourselves. Just because the majority don't have the skill to steer a 2-wheeler at 60+kmph does not mean the minority that do, also do not have the right to drive on a road with a faster average speed. It is already stupid that there are certain flyovers (JJ flyover in Mumbai and the 14km flyover in Nashik) that motorcycles are not allowed on as if their time is somehow less valuable. As this country progresses to faster vehicles and faster roads, lets make sure our 2-wheeler riding brethren are part of the progress and do not feel left out.

[Gansan]

Originally Posted by antz.bin

ANYBODY Who is not paying toll should not be allowed on an access controlled toll road.

Actually it is an unfair practice in India, even for cars. If there is only one road connecting cities X and Y, and the government makes it a toll road and collects toll from cars, it is not fair. In advanced countries there will be a toll road and also a non toll road,usually longer and not comparable to the former, the driver can choose which one to take.

But here? For example if I want to go to Kanyakumari from Chennai I take only one road, the Grand Southern Trunk (GST) Road. Currently it takes on various NH numbers at various places along it's length. And has entirely been converted in to a toll road. Now where is my option of taking a non toll road? If I have to pay toll for the only road available, why was road tax collected from me when buying the car?

Two wheeler users on the highways are mostly from the middle to lower income groups. Making them to pay compulsory toll or preventing access will be a hot potato which no government will dare to touch.

[BhaskarG]

Originally Posted by Gansan

Two wheeler users on the highways are mostly from the middle to lower income groups. Making them to pay compulsory toll or preventing access will be a hot potato which no government will dare to touch.

Off topic: In a typical toll road (not expressway), the number of 2 wheelers is much more than number of 4 wheelers. Collecting a small very, very amount from the 2 wheelers can accumulate huge sum for the government, when we consider the sheer number of 2 wheelers. For example, a toll booth that collects Rs 100 from cars, could collect only Rs 10 from bikes. Even in this case, the total collection from bikes may turn out to be more than that from cars in some roads. That could in turn help reduce the burden on cars. In the above example, if we consider 5 bikes on the road against 1 car, it could bring down the toll for the cars to half (Rs 50). You do the math.

Back to the topic of this thread: Now, we have people like the OP who ride proper lifestyle bikes, do long tours, respect rules, etc. However most people in India ride their commuter bikes/scooters very irresponsibly, with no regard to traffic rules. But unfortunately all are put into a single category: “2 wheelers”, and treated as the same. Though unfortunate, nothing can be done at the moment except to slowly educate proper riding etiquette to the masses, and bring some discipline as a whole. Hope to see more disciplined riders in our roads in the years to come. Because classification based on CC or BHP makes no sense, unless the rider is disciplined.

[Amrik Singh]

No !
First of all Bike Riders (including myself) have picked the habit of squeezing past narrow spaces and for them, lane or lane markings have no value.
A Car driver is supposed to (and mostly so on expressway) drive in lane. A Bike rider would try to overtake the Car without actually changing lane but close to the Car - a dangerous move.
Secondly, drivers / riders have scant respect to their tyres and their condition. Most of the accidents on expressway involve a tyre burst. Wide roads, light and modern cars, drivers having crawled on city roads suddenly find open wide roads, speed up and cause accidents. Cars undergo crash tests and have life saving safety features. What does a Two wheeler have as safety feature ? A safety Helmet, and many of those bought off the street hawkers.
Not the expressway for them as they may or may not be involved in an accident, but could be a cause of accident of others.

[Yash390]

First of all, apologies for such a late reply.
Thank you for sharing your views with detailed responses. It is tough to reply to all 60 of you but I appreciate and understand everyone's stance.

I know everyone's main issue is the dangers faced due to erratic 2W riders, well I feel the same ! As many members have mentioned, a Tata Ace, an overloaded truck and a Toyota Fortuner with a Bharat Sarkar sticker zipping past at 140kmph are equally dangerous. I fail to see how 2W are more dangerous. I never say that 2W riders are bad or 4W drivers are bad. In our country, 99.9% of the people holding a driver's license are equally careless with little to none situational awareness, are unfamiliar with their vessel's characteristics, are poorly/not at all trained and hence a hazard to everyone on the road.

While I myself adore the class based licensing system in some countries, implementing it in our country is probably next to impossible. It is just too much work for our authorities.

To those people who are concerned about the personal safety of 2W riders, I think that all people riding a 2W are very much aware of the risks they face. I myself know that I would be more seriously injured in a bike crash rather than a car crash in the same setting.
I hope I have addressed all the issues above. Meanwhile, I will try staying off expressways as much as I can. Whereas I consider myself as a law abiding citizen and a regulation following person in general, I don't mind breaking this Draconian law when no other alternatives are available.

Bottom line, it sucks being a 2W touring fan (and an automobile enthusiast in general) in our country.

Originally Posted by vinya_jag

I personally feel, a 350cc bike is relaxing to ride at speeds of around 80-90, over long distances, while a car is much easier at higher speeds. Let us leave bikes for joy rides and adventure, and not for commuting over large distances

Respectfully, this is something that a person who doesn't like 2W touring would say. I drive and ride equally but I still prefer 2W for all purposes even after facing the effects of weather. It is just a personal preference. Case in point, I had absolutely no problems doing a 12hrs 800kms ride on my Duke 390 in 5°C. In fact, after reaching home and having dinner, I went for a long drive to get ice-cream with my family. This is how my brain is wired, and as long as it gives me immense joy and a sense of freedom, I will continue to love 2W touring. Hope you understand.

[furyrider]

Originally Posted by SlowDough

When I do this in the fast lane, guess who has a problem? Both cars and bikes, but especially cars. They honk the loudest.

I can totally understand where you are coming from. The problem with bikes in general is the number of people like you who drive responsibly are a minority.

Most 2-wheeler riders do not understand that when you pit a bike against the smallest of 4-wheelers like an Alto or 800, the car always wins. A swipe of the ORVM is enough to make a bike loose balance. To add to this, every other bike rider I spot on the highways wears earphones now-a-days that too without helmets.

I am guilty of honking when I spot a 2-wheeler - the intention is not to bully them but to make them aware of their surroundings. This I have learnt from my own experience: Below is a near miss experience I had with a 2-wheeler on a 6-lane highway. That particular stretch was extended from 4-lane to 6-lane and was newly tarred. Hence, there are no lane markings in the video. The biker cut across lanes without a worry in the world. I was lucky that no one was behind me that day. I was able to swerve left to avoid him. The result? The biker gave me an angry stare as if I deliberately tried to hit him:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjBBt5umvbQ

Another incident: The biker was distracted and rear-ended a Grand i10 who switched-on his indicators long before he made that turn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNulEjTAKjM

Bikes are aplenty in this country and unfortunately most of the riders lack road sense. Unless 2-wheel riders realize that they are the most vulnerable population on the road and stick to the one lane instead of zig zagging across lanes/keep a safe distance from heavier vehicles, incidents like these continue to happen.

The point of this post is not to frame bikers in a bad light. I am not justifying that bikes should be taken off-of highways. There are plenty of bad car/truck drivers as well. I just wanted to share the perspective from someone who drives a 4-wheeler. Not everyone honks because they look down upon 2-wheelers. Some do it because they want to get the attention of the 2-wheeler rider hoping that they won't make an abrupt move.

[Yash390]

Originally Posted by furyrider

Unless 2-wheel riders realize that they are the most vulnerable population on the road and stick to the one lane instead of zig zagging across lanes/keep a safe distance from heavier vehicles, incidents like these continue to happen.

This ! But their thought process is literally the opposite, they think that because they have the smallest footprint, they can squeeze into any gap and reach their destinations faster.

Originally Posted by furyrider

The problem with bikes in general is the number of people like you who drive responsibly are a minority. Most 2-wheeler riders do not understand that when you pit a bike against the smallest of 4-wheelers like an Alto or 800, the car always wins. A swipe of the ORVM is enough to make a bike lose balance. To add to this, every other bike rider I spot on the highways wears earphones now-a-days that too without helmets.

I am guilty of honking when I spot a 2-wheeler - the intention is not to bully them but to make them aware of their surroundings. This I have learnt from my own experience: Below is a near miss experience I had with a 2-wheeler on a 6-lane highway. The biker gave me an angry stare as if I deliberately tried to hit him.
The point of this post is not to frame bikers in a bad light. I am not justifying that bikes should be taken off-of highways. There are plenty of bad car/truck drivers as well. I just wanted to share the perspective from someone who drives a 4-wheeler. Not everyone honks because they look down upon 2-wheelers. Some do it because they want to get the attention of the 2-wheeler rider hoping that they won't make an abrupt move.

I get what you're saying. Whenever I go to a fuel station, the attendants come and stare at me for a while, looking at me geared up and always the same question comes up, "racing karte ho ?" , such is the stereotype
I also honk a lot, while passing almost everyone. I have to do it because of the non existent situational awareness of every driver and pedestrian.

[Sebring]

It's a treat to ride a bike on the new Bangalore Mysore highway (One of the few good stretches) and I was disappointed that bikes won't be allowed. Cars are being driven like crazy and with zero lane discipline, why blame bikes? They should at least clear bikes over 250 CC.

[mac13]

Originally Posted by Sebring

Cars are being driven like crazy and with zero lane discipline, why blame bikes?

Exactly why I prefer to avoid taking the highways as much as possible when on the bike. And there’s the trucks and buses being driven like crazy too. Even if you stick to all rules and ride cautiously it feels like putting your safety (and life) at the mercy of others. Just one tiny nudge from a bigger vehicle and the the bike guy is done for.

[Sebring]

That's an interesting perspective from the other side /and reality too. Yeah I've experienced this on the Blor-Chennai highway

Originally Posted by mac13

Just one tiny nudge from a bigger vehicle and the the bike guy is done for.

[Mortis]

I think in India any question needs to be a Yes or No.
If bikes are to be allowed then all bikes should be. If it's restricted to xxx cc and above it will as expected cause chaos and a big waste of time time with people arguing at toll booths and so on as is the norm when there is wiggle room to debate and i guess game the system.

So then to the question "Should two wheelers be allowed on expressways ?" My answer is NO.
I don't think I'm wrong in saying that the vast majority of Indian 2 wheeler riders are indisciplined and a danger to themselves and other road users especially on high speed roads.
Let's also take into consideration that budget bikes and those owned by low income groups are often just about in ok running condition and most likely not highway worthy.
Then there will be the two wheelers with women sitting sideways or with more than 2 passengers. This cannot be expected to be enforced at toll booths because it's a waste of time and manpower.
Then there are the two wheelers with excessive and badly fastened luggage. Again it's impractical to expect enforcement at toll booths.
There are many reasons why ALL 2 wheelers are LESS SUITABLE for expressway use in INDIA and it all boils down to a HUMAN or CITIZEN problem rather than a machine problem. We all know this and unfortunately the minority of good bikers have to suffer for it.

Let's not get into the usual Indian circle jerk of introducing statements like :
If an overloaded tempo can then why can't I
There are potholes so 2 wheelers should be allowed
But cars with sunfilm or drunk drivers can also crash
And so on and so forth. In the end the AVERAGE Indian 2 wheeler is more likely to be involved in an accident than the AVERAGE Indian 4 wheeler on an Expressway. It is true and we all know it.

Also sometimes it's not necessary for everyone to have access to everything and we should be allowed to enjoy or take advantage of it without feeling guilty