[Bhargav7]

Originally Posted by tilt

Plus, I am happy to see you said "bad" driver and not a "exceeding speed-limits" driver.

Cheers

A genuine question here - How many of us think that an "exceeding speed-limits" driver is a bad driver? In my view, if you go beyond the speed limit, you are a bad driver. It doesn't matter if you are going at 200 kmph on an expressway or at 30 in an apartment or a school zone where the speed limit is 20.

[krishnakumar]

I'm of the school of thought that blanket ban (or blanket imposition) of anything doesn't help much. Not only in this subject, but literally anything.

Thrill seekers will find a way to switch this off from the ECU and there will be new businesses cropping up to switch off this "feature". We already have a thread somewhere on this forum regarding how to disable the 120kmph mandatory alarm. People are just going to figure out a way.

The right way (and only way) to do this is by large-scale enforcement. ECU limit is a knee-jerk reaction to a problem that is much more nuanced.

Hasn't Kerala done this very effectively to a large extent? I have been on multiple highways (if you can call them so) in Kerala and every few km or so there are speed cameras. And I could certainly see the cars maintaining discipline.

Most cars anyway don't go beyond 120kmph, so why put an ECU limit and disable the ability to go faster whenever the car "absolutely needs to"? Instead, enforcement just allows for that flexibility yet prevent 99% of over-speeding.

[Aditikpurohit]

Originally Posted by SS_36

Then why allow car manufacturers to make and sell cars that can go faster than 120 kmph? Can the Govt. not mandate ECU controlled speed limit of 120 kmph on all new cars?.

Such a bad proposal
Just a reminder accidents can also take place at speeds lower than 120 kmph

I think there already are ECU speed limits assigned on cars

A car owner should be allowed to use the car as they wish to
Such control of CARS should not be allowed

[G V Krishna]

Dear OP,

I'm sure you wanted to use your first post on this forum to startle the members and announce your arrival, but this act of your is like throwing a cat among the pigeons. Now let's address your problems:

Originally Posted by SS_36

Given the following:
1. Poor self-control of speeds by drivers of India
2. Little to no speed enforcement on highways
3. Large % of accidents on highways linked to speeding
4. Highest speed limit anywhere in the country is 120 kmph
5. We don't have Autobahns like in Germany

1. How will this be corrected or improved with a hardwired limit of 120 KMPH? Why don't RTO/Government pull up their socks and educate the drivers, make issuing the drivers license strict like elsewhere in the world? This is what a Government should do rather than fiddling the ECU.

2. Spend the 'ECU Fiddling money' in installing automatic speed trap cameras across the highways. Let me quote an example here. Have you heard about something called Outer Ring Road in Hyderabad? It is an expressway designed and constructed on par with International Standards to enable vehicles travel as fast as 120 KMPH. However there is a strict enforcement of the limit 100 KMPH. Across the 150KM Expressway, there are speed traps setup by Police such that if anybody goes above 100 KMPH, 95% of the times they get an e-challan within 24 hours. This system works and I'm 100% sure of this as I travel on this road for around 80 KMs almost all weekdays since last ~10 years. Of course, there are accidents that happen, but they are largely due to driver's negligence and not following rules.

3. This is a myth. Speed is not the cause of most accidents. It is the road design & engineering. In India we don't have properly engineered roads. We rather have roads that accommodate important people's interests (read lands, properties, statues etc., ). I see that the new highways are improved in this aspect a lot, but still if a proper thorough investigation and analysis is carried out, it is the design of the road that causes the accident, whose chances are aggravated by over speeding. Of course this is no excuse to over speeding as one should be careful while traversing these poorly designed roads. Another example I would quote here is, take any highway and you will find an intersection in middle of a sharp curve. Culverts suddenly start, lanes are not properly merged, bridges are not properly aligned to the road (Cyrus Mistry's accident). These are the top blunders government should correct first. Again no body supports over speeding. But government has much larger things to fix on roads than our Cars ECU.

4. On the max speed in the country, we need to see & adopt what's happening best in the first world. Not limiting ourselves to decade old speeds. So by similar lines of your argument, should Indian Railways stop vande bharat expresses and ply the trains only at 80 KMPH? Isn't 160 KMPH dangerous? Weren't the tracks improved before launching the Vande Bharat trains? Don't we have highways and expressways in the world that allow 100 MPH? We should learn from them.

5. On a typical car (On the road cost) the cost of manufacturing the complete car and dealer commission is hardly 50% & the rest goes as various taxes. To drive around the above car, we have to use Petrol/Diesel which are charged a premium and obviously 55% of the cost we pay for the fuel is taxes again. Now, may we ask where in the rabbit hole this money is being spent? What's stopping the government from constructing Autobhan level highways? It is not lack of money. It is misaligned priorities and fulfilling vote bank freebie schemes. Shouldn't we be ashamed to say that we don't have Autobahns like Germany while celebrating 75 Years of Independence? How long shall we live as second class citizens of the world?

Let Government address these first. Then do a proper investigative analysis on speed vs. accidents. If you still see that speed is the 'ONLY' reason for accidents, enforce speed limits, but please don't fiddle with our ECUs.

[furyrider]

Originally Posted by SS_36

1. Poor self-control of speeds by drivers of India
2. Little to no speed enforcement on highways

Well, the same applies for the ones who drive slow in the fast lane blocking others as well.

Let me give you an example. Yesterday, I was returning from an outstation trip on a 2-lane highway with a speed limit of 80 Kmph. A white Dzire was travelling at 50-55 Kmph all the while with a phone in the left hand and the right hand on the steering. Since there was oncoming traffic, I could not find the right moment to overtake him. Within minutes, I could see a pool of cars impatient to overtake the said vehicle pileup behind me with some even driving in the other lane trying some risky maneuvers. Some even came parallel to me and tried to merge with my lane when they spotted an oncoming vehicle - typically indicating in the last minute. I somehow found myself from a position from first-in-line behind the Dzire to 4-5 cars behind the Dzire within minutes.

This is not an isolated incident and a common scenario across the country. We (as in our fellow countrymen) are an impatient bunch of people. Combine that with the lack of driving sense, obedience or lack of respect for other road users, you have a perfect recipe for disaster. It does not matter if our cars are limited to 120 or 200. Unless driving licenses are issued on the basis of driving skills, our roads will remain chaotic.

Originally Posted by SS_36

3. Large % of accidents on highways linked to speeding

While I can't deny this fact, "speeding" is a synonym for I-have-no-clue-how-this-happened in the official reports. This is similar to the official reports on building fires. It is always a short circuit (whatever that means).

Originally Posted by SS_36

5. We don't have Autobahns like in Germany

While we don't have roads without speed limits, we do have some excellent expressways being built across the country. The starting leg/finish of all my journeys is the 4-lane Hyderabad ORR. Every time I take the road, I just wish the journey never ends. Even on such excellent roads, I find people driving bang in the middle of two lanes in their own pace forcing others to cut across lanes to overtake them. As I said, our brains should get updated before our car's.

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

a speeding bus travelling at 115

Given how commercial vehicles are maintained in our country, the mere sight of this would send shivers down my spine

[Lobogris]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

And then what happens when you want to overtake a speeding bus travelling at 115? Go at 120 and spend more time in the process of a risky overtake? Speed really isn't everything you know. Road infrastructure, driver training and vehicle maintenance play arguably larger roles if not contribute just as much to most accidents. Just that it is easier to blame speed.

If another vehicle is moving at 115, there is absolutely no need to overtake it. One can safely stay behind it. Speed is the most important and the most deadly component. An ill trained driver driving an unsafe vehicle has a much higher chance of avoiding an accident or surviving one at 60 kmph than at 150 kmph. All other factors pale in comparison to high speed. No sane person would argue for high speed in India where wrong way driving, illegally parked vehicles, animals, pedestrians, lack of lane discipline and a total disregard for rules is prevalent.

Originally Posted by revsperminute

What if it’s an emergency situation? What if you’re being chased by some mafia corporation and the only way to escape with your life is to go 200kph through the dark of the night? .

You are not allowed to commit illegal acts to save yourself. Why should you be allowed to place other users in danger? In any case, driving over 120 is much riskier than whatever this “mafia” might do. Otherwise we can argue that you should be allowed to carry automatic weapons, machine guns, grenades etc as well.

[Nalin1]

Originally Posted by Lobogris

If another vehicle is moving at 115, there is absolutely no need to overtake it. One can safely stay behind it. Speed is the most important and the most deadly component. An ill trained driver driving an unsafe vehicle has a much higher chance of avoiding an accident or surviving one at 60 kmph than at 150 kmph. All other factors pale in comparison to high speed. No sane person would argue for high speed in India where wrong way driving, illegally parked vehicles, animals, pedestrians, lack of lane discipline and a total disregard for rules is prevalent.

You are not allowed to commit illegal acts to save yourself. Why should you be allowed to place other users in danger? In any case, driving over 120 is much riskier than whatever this “mafia” might do. Otherwise we can argue that you should be allowed to carry automatic weapons, machine guns, grenades etc as well.

Absolutely!. If see a bus ripping at 115, even if I am at 120, I will drop to maybe 100 and let the bus out of my sight . As it is they block view completely and make it impossible to anticipate even at 15!.

I would much rather face the mafia than touch 200 .

[theabstractmind]

https://www.gjel.com/blog/driving-in...accidents.html

There are many more links - reliable ones from attorneys. One will be surprised on where Speeding and Reckless driving figures. In India, I think the NHAI Or the police typically club them together. And fairly so because something may not be technically speeding considering the legal limit but may be so considering the situation - when it becomes reckless.

The point is how we stop the reckless behavior. Pointing fingers at a slow moving truck and carrying out an overtake from the left most lane from a driver's blind spot is also reckless. By the way.

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by Lobogris

If another vehicle is moving at 115, there is absolutely no need to overtake it. One can safely stay behind it.

Wow seems like plenty of people have taken my example in its simplest form. The whole point of my example was to encourage others to think of further scenarios before believing that it is as easy as enforcing a speed limit to prevent accidents.

How about this; a bus travelling in front of you on a national highway at 80 kph needs to be overtaken by you at "sane?" speeds but mid-way through the overtake, the bus decides to overtake a brand new Seltos with an L sticker that has swerved in front of him so now begins slowly creeping into your lane and accelerating himself. Obviously it would make things far easier for you to complete your overtake if you did not have a speed limit preventing you from doing so.

Originally Posted by Lobogris

No sane person would argue for high speed in India where wrong way driving, illegally parked vehicles, animals, pedestrians, lack of lane discipline and a total disregard for rules is prevalent.

No one on this thread has argued for high speed per se. Simply that enforcing an electronic speed limit at 120 is a little short-sighted. That's all.

[venkyhere]

The need to go fast is primeval. As primeval as "I will decide where, when, how, I want to go - it's my choice". If every decision man made was 'cerebrally logical' , there wouldn't be art or sports or literature - and the amount of money involved in them - they serve no purpose other than themselves. If we all thought logically, there is no need to 'own' a car, just hire an uber/ola/whatever , at the tap of a button on the smartphone, because a pvt car is a depreciating asset, 90% of the time it is standing parked, serving nothing useful.

So trying to answer the Q, why do people need to go beyond 80/100/120 kph ; with logic, is like asking the guy who bought the world's most expensive painting, and put it up in his own bedroom, where the only eyes that are ever going to see it are his own ; to explain why he did so, in the form of a logically satisfying answer.

The best we can do, instead of debating from dawn to dusk, on a public forum like this, where nothing other than regurgitating already digested content is happening , is to give a break to the verbal diarrhoea. Many many of our esteemed members are dishing out advice like wizened sages, but can a single one of them honestly deny not doing 'just went fast for the thrill of it' ?

The risk v/s reward threshold is different for different people, it differs with education level, family background, age (a teenager with a fresh driving licence on a friday night with his buddies, will have a different threshold to a man in his 60s driving with family) - there is no rule or law or draconian software that can enforce uniformity - people WILL find ways to subvert restrictions. They always have. That's how human beings work. It's nature.

The only thing that each individual can do, is drive defensively on the road, walk defensively by the roadside, wear the seatbelt.

So instead of wasting time trying to find a logical solution to an illogical problem, let's give this thread a rest.

[Anikesh11]

I completely agree with suggestion , there is absolutely no need for any car to go beyond 120kmph in our roads, speed limiters are something manufacturers can easily implement
People suggesting there would the need to overtake at 115kmph or stating one off rare emergency are actually describing an unnecessary and dangerous situation
Why government across the board leave the responsibility of 1 ton metal projectiles completely at humans judgement or sensibilities when technology to aid humans are available is beyond me
Car buyers need to understand it's our risky need of having the fastest car that are making our roads unsafe
What's the practical use of having a car that goes 150 when speed limit of road is 100? 120kmph provides enough buffer to handle any normal driving scenarios

[lina]

Originally Posted by qaqa

While this is somewhat off-topic, I recollect that NICE had a 120kmph speed limit until a couple of years ago. With 120kmph sign boards even. Now, it's down to 80kmph.

Interesting. Technically it is an expressway with good shoulder and median being mostly a grass ditch. If the surface was better, 120kmph definitely possible in a safe manner.

[THE-U-]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

No! We need more Speed.

How? Engineering - simple as that.
...
I think we need to come out of this third world country mindset first.

Well put. Wow is all I can say. The continuous beeps are no longer enough but we need to make sure cars don't go past 120 kmph. How about 30 kmph for everyone? Certainly beats walking or bicycling and no one other than an unlucky pedestrian will die in a collision at 30 kmph. Imagine the cost savings - no need for airbags or collapsible steering etc. We still can use 1940s technology. Want to go from Kanyakumari to Kashmir? You just plan ahead and send your car through a car carrier. You can always fly and when you reach your car will already be there for your use. The cars will be so cheap each of us can have multiple cars to spare.

All fun aside, what is the rationale for 120kmph? Why have V6s and V8s? Perhaps every manufacturer should be certified to have a constant power to weight ratio.

I would think with all the technical man power in India, the focus would be on developing technologies, standardization and driver training that will allow vehicles to go faster but at the same time reducing accidents and fatalities. Instead, we have battery operated rickshaws that stop abruptly in the middle of the road, two or three or the autos riding abreast with a long line of cars stuck behind them, large trucks ambling along the expressway in the rightmost lane at 30 kmph, small three wheelers getting stuck on flyovers causing mayhem etc. are the norm. I am shocked to see little children standing in front of the front passenger seat in airbag equipped cars everyday on their way to school driven by their dads or drivers. Even a 30kmph collision would kill the child if the airbag deploys - is anyone worried about that?

But, instead of addressing these limitations to make us on-par or better than other countries, I am very surprised at folks lobbying for further restrictions in the name of safety.

Autobahn (To be clear, I would agree that the team took unnecessary risk but this is perfectly legal for perspective):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czED2FSc508

[Arun Varma]

For all who are seeking "data", attached is the PDF from MORTH (ministry of road transport and highways) which details road accidents for the year 2020. Couldn't find the data for 2021 but I think it would be safe for us to extrapolate the themes which is likely to be similar. It is quite comprehensive and covers a lot of ground. Per this report, the majority of the accidents are (predominantly):

Because of over speeding
Are vehicles that are normally loaded
Driven under clear/Sunny skies
Most accident victims are male
Most accidents happen on a straight road

I realize this is not going to convince anyone who has already made up their minds this data is bogus or from poor sources, "barely literate cops" as one person put it. But in the absence of an alternative that is more robust, and even accounting for massive amount of error in the data, and with due respects to the convenient anecdotes and recollections to the contrary, it still will be the number 1 reason.

Now as I mentioned, is the solution to limit speed via ECU to 120 km, I don't know. But what I do know is we need to have a conversation about how to control and limit it. Are there other things that need be fixed like infra, driver certs, licensing, and policing and punitive action, yes of course. But to me it all starts with overspeeding. We cannot add speed to dysfunction and respond with whataboutism whenever someone raises a serious issue!

[clevermax]

Originally Posted by venkyhere

So instead of wasting time trying to find a logical solution to an illogical problem, let's give this thread a rest.

Totally agree. There are so many basic issues that needs to be addressed first. Limiting all cars' ECU to 120kmph may be reducing the accident rates by what, 0.001%? Whereas proper enforcement of helmets and seat belts will have a huge impact on the reduction of deaths/injuries from road accidents.

This is how I see the idea proposed in this thread: