[adasisthefuture]

The S-Class is often called the best car in the world. But, quite sadly, neither Mercedes voluntarily sends the S-Class to Euro NCap, IIHS or NHTSA nor these organizations have done so all by themselves. There is hardly any discussion on this topic on this forum. S-Class is not the only Luxury car which is not crash tested but since it enjoys the title of the "Best Car", I have picked it up as a case study.

In today's world, Safety is one of the most important, if not the most important aspect a buyer considers while taking a decision on which car to buy. In such a scenario, does the S-Class deserve to be called the best car when no one knows how safe it is apart from some edited videos released by the company itself in controlled /studio environment ? ( link given below )

https://youtu.be/OmtP5hlFAFo?si=j86EGVRRCrzTce_L

While other Mercedes models are crash tested, does the company think that the S-Class is beyond crash tests ?

It is quite well known now that until and unless a car is crash tested by independent agencies, its build quality and performance during a crash cannot be ascertained. A company's own internal testing is not sufficient otherwise no car would be required to be crash tested.

An old but interesting article on this subject was published by Consumer Reports ( link below ) :

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-...-test-ratings/

In this light, I frame the following questions broadly:

1) Should one spend a fortune on a vehicle which one is not sure how safe is it in today's world?

2) Is it so that buyers are ready to trade off safety for a so-called Status symbol
and pride ?

3) Hasn't the time come for the buyers to let these Luxury car makers know that however good their car may be technically, the safety aspect cannot be brushed aside ?

Learned members of this forum are requested to share their views.

Thank you.

[GTO]

Mod Note: Thread moved to the Road Safety section!

Thanks for sharing. Quite an eye-opener, really! I had always assumed that the S-Class has a 5-star crash test rating by default. Guess that's because a lot of the mainstream Mercedes have gotten 5-stars in the NCAP.

Very surprising.

[Shreyans_Jain]

Isn’t NHTSA crash testing mandatory in the US? My understanding was that the insurance premiums are directly linked to the crash test results.

[mayankk]

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

Isn’t NHTSA crash testing mandatory in the US? My understanding was that the insurance premiums are directly linked to the crash test results.

NHTSA has given it 5 star rating.

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/...llover%20tests.

[aman9393]

Originally Posted by mayankk

NHTSA has given it 5 star rating.

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/...llover%20tests.

Cannot find details on NHTSA website for the 2023 model:

2023 Mercedes-Benz S-Class 4 DR AWD

2023 Mercedes-Benz S-Class Hybrid 4 DR AWD

2023 Mercedes-Benz Mercedes-Maybach S-Class 4 DR AWD

[ron178]

I think it has mostly to do with the cost involved. Euro NCAP testing is not cheap. As of 2023, for a car with a centre airbag, at least 5 cars are required for the physical crash tests alone (front offset, front full-width, side MDB w/driver, side MDB w/driver+passenger, oblique pole), and that's excluding the pedestrian impacts. And in-house tests to be presented as evidence (LHD-vs-RHD, different powertrains, far-side impact, knee mapping, etc.)

Usually manufacturers sponsor Euro NCAP testing when they gain a competitive advantage by doing so, which is common in the mass-market. Publicity, reduced insurance premiums for buyers, induction into more fleets etc. [Additionally each Euro NCAP sponsor selects at least one car every year, usually based on sales reference (publicly available here).]

OEMs rarely sponsor testing for expensive cars like the S-Class, and understandably so, because any additional volume generated from having a rating simply does not justify the cost involved in testing.

Off the top of my head, only a few really high-end cars have undergone Euro NCAP testing: limited mostly to VW Group and a few odd ones here and there.

[adasisthefuture]

Originally Posted by ron178

OEMs rarely sponsor testing for expensive cars like the S-Class, and understandably so, because any additional volume generated from having a rating simply does not justify the cost involved in testing

This precisely leads to the questions I have framed in my post. It is the buyers then, who should let the manufacturer know that if they want them to pay such high prices for their vehicles, they are supposed to ensure that the vehicles are safe and not to cut costs on the safety aspect. I don't think that for the manufacturer who is selling cars at a cost of 1.5 crores + would not be able to afford crash tests. It could be just that buyers do not care that much for safety while buying a Status Symbol.

[ashivas89]

Originally Posted by adasisthefuture

This precisely leads to the questions I have framed in my post. It is the buyers then, who should let the manufacturer know that if they want them to pay such high prices for their vehicles, they are supposed to ensure that the vehicles are safe and not to cut costs on the safety aspect. I don't think that for the manufacturer who is selling cars at a cost of 1.5 crores + would not be able to afford crash tests. It could be just that buyers do not care that much for safety while buying a Status Symbol.

Mercedes, Audi and BMW spend hundreds of millions each on engineering passive safety alone on their flagship cars. Their passive safety/crash test load-cases far outnumber the Euro NCAP tests. So they ENSURE that their cars are safe and they are certainly not cutting corners. You certainly cannot level that at companies that pioneered several active and passive safety constructs.

Mercedes Audi and BMW don't have Euro NCAP ratings for their flagships AFAIK. Bentley and Rolls Royce are not even listed on their website as brands. These companies just do not see any value in spending more money on getting their low volume luxury products rated by private external rating agencies because it does not necessarily translate to a competitive edge in terms of sales as ron178 has already mentioned. The auto industry is a slim margin business they use their money very judiciously.

Euro NCAP or equivalent agencies are PRIVATE RATING AGENCIES that only help buyers decide. A lack of a test does not automatically make a car unsafe. Especially in the luxury segment.

[ashivas89]

@Mods, shouldn't the thread title read: Why aren't luxury flagship cars tested by Euro NCAP equivalent agencies? Or something along those lines?

Sorry about the back to back posts.

[androdev]

It's like Michelin pilot sport trying to get an ISI mark to market their tires.

Companies like Mercedes will have a very good infrastructure and procedures for safety related testing including crash tests. They would have already spent tons money conducting these tests internally that they don't feel the need for any 3rd party testing to figure things out. They still send their cars for 3rd party rating once in awhile just to confirm their internal mechanisms are working properly (like an audit) and just to reassure the market that the brand is trustworthy. They don't find the need do this for each car model, especially for their flagship models where they didn't have to cut corners.

As others have said, it really boils down to cost vs marketing benefit as they already have a pretty good idea about the crashworthiness of their cars based on internal testings. In fact, I won't be surprised if their sophisticated software simulations are very close to the real world crash testing. Regulators like NHTSA don't require third party ratings as long as the manufacture provides them internal test data.

You can find many "internal" crash test youtube videos of Mercedes, here is an example:

Mercedes SLS AMG Crash Test

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bRWZYU3qKg

[adasisthefuture]

Originally Posted by ashivas89

Mercedes, Audi and BMW spend hundreds of millions each on engineering passive safety alone on their flagship cars. Their passive safety/crash test load-cases far outnumber the Euro NCAP tests. So they ENSURE that their cars are safe and they are certainly not cutting corners. You certainly cannot level that at companies that pioneered several active and passive safety constructs.

Originally Posted by androdev

It's like Michelin pilot sport trying to get an ISI mark to market their tires.

Companies like Mercedes will have a very good infrastructure and procedures for safety related testing including crash tests. They would have already spent tons money conducting these tests internally that they don't feel the need for any 3rd party testing to figure things out. They still send their cars for 3rd party rating once in awhile just to confirm their internal mechanisms are working properly (like an audit) and just to reassure the market that the brand is trustworthy. They don't find the need do this for each car model, especially for their flagship models where they didn't have to cut corners

I respectfully disagree with both of you completely on this. If there is one company which has pioneered safety and whose in-house crash tests are way ahead of any third party agency in the world is VOLVO. Still, every Volvo - from the entry level model to the flagship is sent for crash tests. Even Organisations like IIHS appreciate standards of in-house crash tests of Volvo ( please refer to the second Youtube video below to hear what David Zuby, VP, IIHS has to say about Volvo). The following video will give some idea on the level of tests Volvo does.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=A3Agd_YG...xyantLsgDBoGxD

https://youtu.be/bfuDOkW12nE?si=Jo1HhbNboKImqrCX

Therefore, if a company says it does not need to get its cars crash tested by third party agencies, it shows nothing but sheer arrogance and indifference towards the safety of its customers to say the least.

[harikrishnansp]

It is all about the standards being followed. Internal testing in companies, especially ones like Mercedes cannot be deemed inferior to independent testing agencies like NCAP. Other Mercedes models are crash tested by NCAP and score pretty well. I don't think they will design their lower models so that they will score good points in NCAP and decide to cut costs in their flagship vehicle just because NCAP doesn't get their hands on one. In fact, all they care about while designing any of their platforms would be their internal standards that are developed based on market studies. And the S class would be tested and certified internally based on the same standards as the lower models, if not higher.

[SuperGirl_Dad]

Originally Posted by ashivas89

Mercedes, Audi and BMW spend hundreds of millions each on engineering passive safety alone on their flagship cars. Their passive safety/crash test load-cases far outnumber the Euro NCAP tests.

Originally Posted by androdev

It's like Michelin pilot sport trying to get an ISI mark to market their tires.

Companies like Mercedes will have a very good infrastructure and procedures for safety related testing including crash tests.

This is the exact thought process on which these companies try to maximize their profit on. BMW, Mercedes and Audi does have the budget to do these tests.

Lets wind the clock a decade back to "2012". IIHS (USA) brought out their new small over lap crash test program in their NCAP assessment. Even back then the big three (BMW, Audi and Mercedes) along with other big giants Lexus and Toyota had enough money to do internal testing to ace this testing. But proof of their pudding lies in the taste. Out of all the sedans tested only Volvo S60 (good), Suzuki Kizashi (good) and Kia Optima (Acceptable) got decent rating. All others got "poor" or "Marginal" rating.

Didnt Audi, BMW and Mercedes have more budget to test for small over lap compared to Suzuki? Heck Suzuki even pulled out of North America market in 2012.

Few Examples: All other crash test videos are in Youtube and credits to respective owners.

2012 Audi A4 (poor)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ob7BhzpPvNY

Lexus IS 250/350 (poor)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnK-TovPgrc

Suzuki Kizashi (Good)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoLSu5uF0ws

So please do not say C class got good enough result, so it will reflect in S Class . Results cannot be extrapolated.

[McLaren Rulez]

I'm sure Mercedes will pass with 5 stars but then again, I was also sure the Kia Seltos in India had the same safety rating as those sold abroad until GNCAP proved me wrong.

Trust, but verify.