[--gKrish--]

Today, I came across this video in YouTube about a motorcyclist who was fined for speeding. (Only the first 40 seconds is relevant) It is in Malayalam but the auto-translate CCs are pretty accurate in this one.

According to the MVD’s radar, he was clocked at 66 km/h in a 60 km/h zone. This got me thinking—is it not unfair that someone slightly exceeding the limit (by just 6 km/h) is fined the same amount as a reckless driver.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRaodaE7oSY

Shouldn’t we have a slab system for speeding fines?

For example,

• A warning ticket lodged for upto 5%.
• Rs. 500 for exceeding the limit by 5-10%
• Rs.1000 for 10-15% and
• Full fine of Rs. 1,500 for going beyond 15%

In cases like this, perhaps a warning or Rs.500 would have sufficed. I would like to know your thoughts on this. Maybe a petition can be made in change.org and sent to the Minister. (Although I am not very sure whether it would be successful, it is definitely worth trying).

PS: The biggest irony here is the cops being so focused on this guy overspeeding by 6 kmph that they totally ignored a KSRTC bus dangerously overtaking vehicles, that almost caused a head-on with that car.

[alpha1]

Completely agree, but should have more backing of physics here

Kinetic energy of a vehicle is directly proportional to the mass and directly proportional to the square of speed.

This means that a heavier vehicle is more dangerous projectile on the road compared to a lighter one. (We all know, a speeding 2-wheeler usually causes his own death, but a speeding truck is a disaster for many on the road).

Hence, the speeding fines should also take mass of the vehicle into cognizance while issuing tickets.

With respect to speed, since it contributes more than linearly (a doubling of speed makes the vehicle quadrupled more lethal to everyone), the slabs should increase in a much faster manner compared to your suggestion.

The issue with science backed approach are twofold:
1) The enforcing staff on ground doesn't carry enough sophistication to understand and therefore calculate the fines and charge accordingly.
2) Educated folks (like many on T-BHP) who will oppose any such measures by claiming that higher speed does not make a vehicle any more dangerous.

[amolpol]

Well your point is technically valid, we need something that differentiates the degree of violation especially in speeding situations. But first we need to fix the boards announcing start and end of such limits because its super confusing on what is the limit otherwise. Even google doesn’t seem to know the speed limits in India while everywhere in EU it’s normally accurate to just a few metres when the limits change.

There was indeed a slab system of a different kind that existed since ages:

1. When you know the local language and you know someone special who can make it go away
2. When you can put your arguments nicely in the local language and agree on something
3. When you can’t speak the same language but you can call someone special
4. When you can’t speak the language but can visually communicate with some paper currency
5. When everything else fails then you pay the official fine and probably get a receipt as well these days since its all electronic and the department focus is on collections

Of course matters can get complicated if there were other violations in addition to speeding.

With the automated cameras I believe the system is becoming less personal and its the car owner that gets the challan without real implications for the driver in such cases. Most countries focus on the driver and have penalties attached to the license in addition to the fines for serious violations which act as a deterrent vs only collecting money for the department. For example in France, speeding in excess of 50kmph of the limit leads to immediate cancellation of the license of the driver when caught. They do differentiate if the speeding is less than 10kmph over the stated limit but only to discount the points on the license, not the fines.

[Jeroen]

Let me share what speed fine systems are in force in and around western Europe. There are difference country by country, but the basic principles tend to be as follows

The measured speed by the police/camera is always corrected for error. E.g. If the radar clocks you at 65 km/h it will be corrected downward to say 60km/h and that will be compared to the respective speed limit.

Fines are differentiated based on the type of road and also on how much you were speeding.

E.g.
There are different fines for speeding inside towns, provincial road and motorways. The fines for speeding on a road with ongoing roadworks is often at least the double of the normal fine.

Up to a certain limit of speeding, you get away with just a fine. No further consequences. Over a certain limit it is up the DA to set the fine and possible other consequences. (e.g. Revoking of license).

On an even higher speeding you automatically lose your driver license and you will have to appear in court and you will get at least a very heavy fine. Suspension of your license for a certain period and in case of repeated offender you might have to take mandatory additional safe driving courses before being allowed to drive again. These course you have to pay yourself.

In addition to the above, many countries also have, next to the fines, a point based system. Depending on the fine you will also be given points on your DL. Too many points and you loose your DL. Points on your DL might also increase your car insurance premium.

Jeroen

[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by --gKrish--

Shouldn’t we have a slab system for speeding fines?

In most First World countries, they do. Such as this table from Victoria, Australia. https://www.vic.gov.au/fine-amounts-and-demerit-points.

Penalties for speeding offences (except heavy vehicles)
The penalties for full licence holders caught speeding are:

Exceeding the speed limit Penalty (as at 1 July 2023) Penalty (as at 1 July 2024) Demerit points Automatic licence suspension
By less than 10 km/h $240 $247 1 no
10 km/h–24 km/h $385 $395 3 no
25 km/h–29 km/h $529 $543 - 3 months
30 km/h–34 km/h $625 $642 - 3 months
35 km/h–39 km/h $721 $741 - 6 months
40 km/h–44 km/h $817 $840 - 6 months
By 45 km/h or more $962 $988 - 12 months
20 km/h - 24 km/h
(110 km/h zone) $385 $395 - 3 months

[siren373]

Our rules are archaic and designed to punish public in every way. My cousin got fined for doing 62 in a 60 zone on a downslope over a flyover. I'm sure most people aren't machines and will make some error of judgement even when trying to follow rules. In US you're clear even if you're speeding at 110% of the speed limit. This and that tinted glass nonsense drives me crazy

[lionell]

Originally Posted by siren373

Our rules are archaic and designed to punish public in every way. My cousin got fined for doing 62 in a 60 zone on a downslope over a flyover.

Facing this every week here in Panjim, Goa. The mobile radar is set up on a downward slope at both ends of the Atal Setu flyover (Mandovi river). It is really difficult to control the speed while on the slope. To add to that both ends have a curve banking left or right depending on where you are headed.

Difficulty level x 10. Maybe they should start the driving licence test at this location than at the mundane football grounds.

I have been careful till date, but the day I am caught I will surrender the license and see them in court in front of a judge and explain this nonsensical way to setup the speed radar. Let's see what the traffic cell does then.

[DudeWithaFiat]

Slabs. Yes, but I suggest a different kind of slab based on the value of the vehicle or the income of the person being fined. It can be the only real deterrent for over-speeding.

A fine of Rs.1000-2000 for someone makes a few ten-thousands a month = It matters to the one being fined and, in all probability, he/she will think twice before speeding or breaking any other traffic rule again.

A fine of Rs.1000-2000 for someone who makes millions a month = Doesn't matter to them much and may not think even think ones if he/she wants to floor his/her AMG and enjoy the car.

[wildsdi5530]

How is this even rational?

Breaking the law is breaking the law. There are no degrees to violation. A bit of grace may be given to vehicles slightly over the limit by ~ 10%. A blind eye turned towards the public services, netas, commercial vehicles, etc. A bit of lenience to the *******. But otherwise the law should be the same for everyone.

@DudeWithaFiat This is ridiculous. Punishing a person based on his ability to pay. Is this a traffic violation or a divorce case where alimony is determined? Same punishment for same crime is one of the hallmarks of justice.

Thus the lady with a balance is blindfolded.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by siren373

In US you're clear even if you're speeding at 110% of the speed limit.

Every state has their own speeds limits, tolerances and enforcement policy. By and large there is zero tolerance near schools and road works.

Some states will allow you to speed by as much as 10-15 MPH whilst overtaking only.. (which I think is a good rule).

There are different tolerance depending on the type of road, day/night as per all per state.

Most tolerance are set as an absolute, e.g.5mph and not a percentage.

Jeroen

[abhishekjoshi84]

Originally Posted by wildsdi5530

Breaking the law is breaking the law. There are no degrees to violation.

Law is what legislature defined it to be.

They can absolutely define degrees of violation of different laws.

For example the differentiation between first/second/third degree of assault in several countries or simple vs aggravated assault in India. In fact in India there are several sections for different types of assault.
Sections 352, 353, 354, 354A, 354B, 354C, 355 ,356 ,357 of the IPC all deal with different types of assault with difference based on seriousness of assault or who the victim is or the intention behind assault. (Not sure if they simplified this in the new BNS).

So yes, it is absolutely feasible to implement in India and has a precedent in other laws having a degree of violation defined.

In my opinion, someone driving 32 in a 30 kmph zone vs someone driving 100 in a 30 kmph zone should definitely be punished differently.