[amit]

Back in 2003, when I had bought my Palio S10, I happened to meet a guy who claimed to work in Fiat India. He approached me when he saw I had a brand new S10 and I told him that absence of ABS was glaring in a powerful and limited edition car like the S10. He claimed that Sachin Tendulkar asked Fiat not to include ABS in the car as it takes away the fun of driving. God knows how true that is.

[deepakhon]

Originally Posted by amit

He claimed that Sachin Tendulkar asked Fiat not to include ABS in the car as it takes away the fun of driving. God knows how true that is.

I have read this statement too, but I do not remember where.

[amit]

Originally Posted by deepakhon

I have read this statement too, but I do not remember where.

HERE.

(20 character limit)

[snaronikar]

Originally Posted by ankit.jhamb

then i think it is the responsibility of manufacturers to have these features in their car.
safety is important,not money.
and manufacturers like MSIL,TATA will always enjoy economies of scale,
so it is important for them to ""ATLEAST OFFER THEM IN THEIR MODELS""

But a normal buyer who buys a M800/Alto, does not even care about these safety features (at present). Even when the dealer happens to tell them about the cars having safety features like ABS/Airbags, people will feel that it is not necessary for them as the vehicle is too small and they never go beyond certain kmph. In simple words, if the cost is more than the one w/o these safety features, people will opt for those cars which is lesser in value than those which have safety features. This is my opinion.

[kkr2k2]

Originally Posted by ankit.jhamb

i have a question for other members
is it technically possible for each and every car model (800,alto....)to have airbags and abs??

Originally Posted by normally_crazy

yes- Ankit its possible. But the one factor that decides it all is - $$$

I WOULD LIKE TO PRESENT ONE NEW POINT.
WHEN I ENQUIRED WHY NOT ALL THE MODELS OF AVEO HAVE OPTION OF ABS, THE SALES MANAGER MENTIONED ONLY THE TOPEND MODEL ECM CAN ACCOMMODATE THE ADDITIONAL CHIP FOR THE ABS. I DONT KNOW HOW TRUE IS IT BUT SOUNDS RIGHT.

Originally Posted by amit

Back in 2003, when I had bought my Palio S10, I happened to meet a guy who claimed to work in Fiat India. He approached me when he saw I had a brand new S10 and I told him that absence of ABS was glaring in a powerful and limited edition car like the S10. He claimed that Sachin Tendulkar asked Fiat not to include ABS in the car as it takes away the fun of driving. God knows how true that is.

SO THE S10 DOESNT HAVE AN ABS! I THOUGHT THE OTHER WAY. IN THAT CASE ONLY THE GTX HAD THE ABS. IS IT SO?


raj

[vipul_bscity]

Hi Folks,

All what is being discussed is quite true. In al my experience of buying 3 -4 diff cars in recent years, I realised that the sales guy, his manager etc, simply does not know about the car being sold. Rest forget about more technical details. During my last (Corolla) and current (Skoda- laura) purchase, some very basic enquiries that I did and found the sales guy gaping. The questions where,
- do we have all disk brakes , are they ventilated/ Solid
- Do we have dual cricuit brake lines
- is it Electronic Power streering ?
- is the brake pads selfadjusting OR do we have a brake wear indicator
- Do we have side impact beams, questions about crumple zone.
- Does the engine dislodge in case of froontal collision ?
- Does the fuel line cuts off in the event of collision?
- does the pedels (Cluth, Brrak etc) dislodge away in case of collision?
- Do we have the ORVMS which can be pushed back a little in case of any mild tough by any two wheelers etc (Corolla and Opel ORVMS can be pushed almost 45 degree back, so if someone hits you mirror mildly, it gets pushed back a little and do not break.

and the list goes endless I really feelt hat the sales guys should be having at least these knowleges. I wonder if the sales person of luxury cars like Merc , BMW, may be knowing the details. I yet to buy one so can't say anything. Our friends who own high end cars can put some words,

- Vipul

[vikrantw1]

I voted that the salesperson mentioned ABS and Airbags. However would also like to narrate my experience with this Honda salesperson.
I had almost finalized plans to buy a Honda city VTEC and then decided to pull out because of the lack of the above - this guy tells me - arre sir! Why are u pulling out - this car is good - has 4 wheels, engine , AC also.
All this ABS is bekaar - hardly used. Airbags - Sir - ek bar khul gaye to very expensive!
THis is before the VTEC was relaunched with ABS and airbags.
Of course everytime I have gone to a showroom - toyota, skoda, honda , maruti - have all pointed out the safety features - if the variant has them

[StarScream]

Originally Posted by vikrantw1

I had almost finalized plans to buy a Honda city VTEC and then decided to pull out because of the lack of the above - this guy tells me - arre sir! Why are u pulling out - this car is good - has 4 wheels, engine , AC also.
All this ABS is bekaar - hardly used. Airbags - Sir - ek bar khul gaye to very expensive!

This experience just shows how far we have to go to match developed markets. I was reading this column recently about how electronic stability control saves lives in the US and should be made compulsory. Here is the link:
Vehicle Stability Control Good Investment For Safety - Maybe More

and the text of the story:
By DORON LEVIN, Bloomberg News

Published: February 8, 2008

A driver who has had to swerve to avoid a collision may have been spared injury or worse by a high-tech gadget that's becoming more common in cars.

The advent of this device isn't just improving automotive safety, it's a profit machine for the manufacturers that supply it.

Because electronic-stability control works passively to make sure an accident doesn't happen, most drivers probably aren't aware of it. The first ESC appeared in Mercedes S Class sedans in the mid-1990s and have proliferated since then.

As a car is about to become unstable, typically when the wheel is jerked sharply in one direction and then the other, a sensor in a car's ESC can tell individual wheels when to brake. Simultaneously, the engine receives a signal to slow down. Instead of spinning, fishtailing or careening out of control, the car tends to return to its previous path.

The driver who just had a brush with disaster may never have touched the brakes and may have no clue that a horrific accident was avoided. I know this having tried a few high-speed swerves in a Infiniti G35 sedan last week, with and without ESC, on a test track owned by Consumer Reports magazine in East Haddam, Conn.

Jerking the wheel one way and trying to recover without ESC invariably caused the car to spin out at speed. It would have flown off the highway or hit something. With ESC the G35 seemed to steady itself and stay on track.

Though ESC is becoming more common and will be federally mandated equipment on every new vehicle sold in the United States starting in 2011, it's still quite possible to buy new cars without it.

That's too bad because almost certainly some drivers and passengers will be hurt or killed needlessly. The tragic lack of this device will be felt most acutely by young and inexperienced drivers, since they're most likely to endanger themselves.

"New drivers lack the experience and judgment," said David Champion, director of automotive testing for Consumer Reports and an advocate for ESC. "They often drive too fast and don't know how to react when the car goes into a skid."

A seasoned driver or one who has been trained may realize after swerving that it's important to avoid jerking the wheel in the opposite direction. Instead, drivers are taught to apply a bit of gas in the direction of the skid.

The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety has estimated that about 10,000 of the 40,000 or so lives lost on the nation's roads annually could be saved if all cars had ESC.

Fortunately, ESC already comes installed as standard equipment on almost all sport-utility vehicles, particularly bigger models designed on pickup underbodies, which tend to ride higher and are less stable than most cars.

"It's standard on my daughter's new 2008 Jeep Liberty," said Bill Kozyra, chief executive of Continental AG's U.S. operations, a major manufacturer of stability systems. The same technology, he said, will result soon in wider use of "rollover mitigation," which automatically brakes and slows a vehicle that's in danger of tumbling.

Kozyra joins Champion and others who say any parent ought to think twice before buying their child a vehicle without ESC.

Unlike seatbelts, which the U.S. auto industry opposed as too expensive and ineffective when first proposed as standard equipment in the 1950s, automakers have embraced ESC.

"Anyone who has seen how it works and been through a near-loss of control realizes how good it is," said Lindsay Brooke, senior editor for the Society of Automotive Engineers.

And here's a piece of investment intelligence that piggybacks on the auto industry's growing purchases of ESC systems. The two biggest suppliers in the world are the closely held German company Bosch Group and Continental of Hannover, Germany.

Each ESC system may account for about $200 or so of revenue for its manufacturer. For Continental, with about 40 percent of the U.S. automotive market, that implies potential annual revenue of roughly $1.2 billion, not counting growing sales in Europe and Asia.

Continental, which was principally a tire company through the mid-1990s, has increased profit more than tenfold since then by adding ESC and other electronic automotive systems to its product lineup.

Since the end of 2002 Continental shares have increased more than threefold, including a 36 percent tumble since October along with equities in general. The consensus among investment professionals is that the stock will recover and rise even more.

Of 34 analysts who follow the company, 26 recommend it as a "buy," six say "hold" and only two say to "sell."

Buying Continental shares is a judgment call. Making sure a car has ESC is a no-brainer.

[patil]

The newly launched Skoda Fabia has two front airbags as standard equipment on all its variants including the lowest variant which does not have power windows. This shows us the concern of the Skoda company towards passanger safety which should be followed by all the car manufacturers in India. While the Maruti Swift has ABS and Airbags on its petrol variant it does not have Airbags in its diesel varient even as an optional. This goes to show that to be economical is to compromise with safety is the stratergy of Maruti.

[amit]

Originally Posted by patil

While the Maruti Swift has ABS and Airbags on its petrol variant it does not have Airbags in its diesel varient even as an optional. This goes to show that to be economical is to compromise with safety is the stratergy of Maruti.

Why blame Maruti? I read somewhere that out of 7000 Swift's that Maruti sells every month almost 4000 are of the diesel variant. Car buyers are speaking loud and clear that between saving money and saving lives they would rather choose saving money. Maruti gives the option of ABS on VDi. Having to choose between waiting 3 months for ABS VDi and non ABS, how many buyers prefer to wait?

IMO, the only way out is to offer ABS and Air bags as option on all variants and let the car buyers choose what they want. I don't know why carmakers don't do this. If Maruti offered ABS and Air bags on the Ldi at 25K more wouldn't they sell many more Swift's every month?