[greenhorn]

Originally Posted by DieselFan

Guys. Guys.

I believe we should be prescribing what is good, what is the best practice and what has been followed well in developed countries in this forum. Breath analyzers were unheard of 5 years ago in India and Laser Gun speed detectors a decade back. When we are adopting best practices from the developed countries we in this forum should practice and preach what is good and tested elsewhere.

what's good for the goose doesnt always have to be good for the gander. there are so many things which work perfectly fine and well in developed countries, but not necessarily in india. Blind adoption of these practices never benefited us till now , dont think its gonna start now.

If we had to adopt US emission rules, dieselfan, neither you nor I would be able to drive any of the diesel cars we can here

[anupmathur]

Originally Posted by DieselFan

I believe we should be prescribing what is good, what is the best practice and what has been followed well in developed countries in this forum.

DieselFan you can prescribe good practice. What then?
The very first problem is that people should be literate so that they can read such guidelines!
Those that can read will not follow it! If no one practises it, it becomes simply that much more paper filed away!
That is what we have always done as an independent nation! 60 years or so?

[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by greenhorn

If we had to adopt US emission rules, dieselfan, neither you nor I would be able to drive any of the diesel cars we can here

We can't drive the cars and engines we did here, say, 5 years ago. In another 5 years, we can't buy and use the engines we are drivng today, once Euro-IV/Bharat stage IV norms come into effect.

We are adopting the best practices, only we are dragging our feet a little bit over it. But "we shall overcome... some day".

[Samir Taheer]

For all those that love using their parking lights with fog lamps... what wrong with just using your dipped beam? Adjust it properly and it wont annoy the other driver plus you'll be able to see the road properly!!!

[bblost]

@Greenhorn

Racing your lights.

When you are driving in the night then you must be able to brake and come to a safe stop in such a way that you do not cross the furthest illuminated spot.

When you use only fog lamps then your speed will also have to be low as you don't get distance coverage.

If you are using fogs and low beam then your low beam itself is enough.
Why do you need fog lights.

[greenhorn]

Originally Posted by bblost

@Greenhorn

Racing your lights.

When you are driving in the night then you must be able to brake and come to a safe stop in such a way that you do not cross the furthest illuminated spot.

When you use only fog lamps then your speed will also have to be low as you don't get distance coverage.

If you are using fogs and low beam then your low beam itself is enough.
Why do you need fog lights.

the low beam doesnt light up the immediate front and periphery of the car, thats from where pedestrians and suicidal cyclists originate , and you are at a bigger risk if you are driving slowly

[anupmathur]

Originally Posted by greenhorn

, and you are at a bigger risk if you are driving slowly

That's a curious statement!
Would you please explain that a bit more?

[bblost]

MY Wagon R provides me with adequate lighting in the low and hi beam settings.

Very rarely do I need to use the hi beam inside the city.
generally I make do with parking lights when street lights are available.

I have not driven an Indica in the night so cannot comment on your car.
But since Indica is sold in Europe I feel you should be able to use just the low beam in the city without any problem.

Note: While my car maybe dusty, the windscreen is always very clean and so are the headlight lenses. Nowadays I use my polaroid sunglasses to protect my eyes in the night.

[DieselFan]

Originally Posted by greenhorn

what's good for the goose doesnt always have to be good for the gander. there are so many things which work perfectly fine and well in developed countries, but not necessarily in india. Blind adoption of these practices never benefited us till now , dont think its gonna start now.

If we had to adopt US emission rules, dieselfan, neither you nor I would be able to drive any of the diesel cars we can here

Like I said we adopt norms/Rules from developed countries but a tad late. We are now having Euro III norms while Europe is onto Euro IV. Now-a-days diesels in India (DDIS/MJD) have a better emission norms that a 10 year old Diesel car (VW TDI) in USA and are comparable with the current Diesel engines run in US. So the above statement even though OT is untrue.

The question here is whether to use fog lights when there is no fog. The answer is "IT IS ILLEGAL IN CERTAIN COUNTRIES TO USE FOG LIGHTS WHERE THERE IS NO FOG". That being the case it is very clear that Fog lights are safety hazard for oncoming traffic if there is no fog. So very clearly the same would be true in India too. If one can't see the point here I can't help it. Like the old saying goes "you an take horses to the water but you can't make it drink".

[greenhorn]

Originally Posted by anupmathur

That's a curious statement!
Would you please explain that a bit more?

if you are driving in the 60's range, the time delay between an area being lit by the low beam and being covered by your car is less than , say when you are doing 30. during that time , you are assuming that nothing jumps out from your side out of nowhere. Ideally, you want to reduce that window, and the fog lamps eliminate it. I've had cyclists and geriatrics jumping from the side at night , right in front of the car, and looking as if I'm some sort of criminal when I sudden brake and honk at them.

and the tendency for these people to jump in front of you is more when you are driving slowly.

Originally Posted by bblost

But since Indica is sold in Europe I feel you should be able to use just the low beam in the city without any problem.

I'm not talking about the city. I rarely drive in the city, most of my travel is a 15 km stretch of curvy national highway through the city's outskirts

Originally Posted by DieselFan

The question here is whether to use fog lights when there is no fog. The answer is "IT IS ILLEGAL IN CERTAIN COUNTRIES TO USE FOG LIGHTS WHERE THERE IS NO FOG". That being the case it is very clear that Fog lights are safety hazard for oncoming traffic if there is no fog. So very clearly the same would be true in India too. If one can't see the point here I can't help it. Like the old saying goes "you an take horses to the water but you can't make it drink".

And my point is, these are not fog lights, these are auxillary driving lamps. If you are driving through non well lit areas, you need all the lighting you can get. I'm not talking HID's or 100/90W bulbs. these are just a pair of wide beam auxillary lights. Show me that it is illegal in india , and i will agree to your point. What is illegal in some countries is perfectly valid, and may in fact be mandatory in others, so the "illegal in certain countries" arguement does not hold water. You cant expect to shoe horn driving regulations of a developed country and expect them to be effective ( or useful for that matter) here

[watashi75]

Leave it to us Indians to use things innovatively beyond their intended purpose. Look at what we have done with cars.

1. Use indicators to tell others it is okay to overtake me, unless I am at a crossing when you will have to guess my intention
2. Flash lights from behind to say I am going to overtake you but you have to guess whether I will overtake you from left or right
3. Hazards to say I am driving straight at crossings
4. Hazards to say I am driving in fog and you can follow me if I am moving or avoid me if I am not

At the other extreme, we like to contribute to a greener planet by
1. Not using indicators and saving energy
2. Not using headlights at night, so our fellow commuters are not at all blinded
3. Using just one headlight, preferably the left one, and preserving energy

So what is one more innovative use like using front fog lights as auxillary lights or rear fog lights to annoy people flashing at us.

[Xehaust]

Staying strictly on the topic,

There are 3 settings in every headlight.
Setting 1: Wherein only a slight tinge of light is there.
Setting 2: Low beam which illuminates the road and if headlights arent focused, tend to blind.
Setting 3: Finally, the high beam.

Personally, i use Setting 1 coupled with the fogs in the city for two reasons.

1st, the fogs give peripheral vision very near & around the car & do not blind drivers coming from the opposite direction as the beam is entirely focused downward and does not attain the height required to blind them.
Here, i would like to add that in the case of bigger cars, like SUVs, this does not hold true as these are high ground clearance vehicles and hence, even the fogs are set at a higher height, generally tending to blind the other driver coming from the opposite side.

2ndly, perhaps you may find this vague or funny but i find it true, if i use only Setting 1, other vehicles on the road tend not to see you at all! So many times ive noticed that drivers dont realise your even there behind them & in extreme cases, that your coming from the opposite direction!!!
Thereby, with the fogs, atleast they do realise that there is another car on the road.

I tend to use the fogs coupled with Setting 1 rather than Setting 2 only as Setting 2 also tends to blind people sometimes. Yes, i know that generally this is due to the headlamp not focused properly but ive noticed that even though they are, some people tend to get blinded. Maybe this is car specific or vision related to particular people.

[Xehaust]

Also, at times wherein there is dense fog, the type wherein you can hardly see 15-20 feet ahead only and are forced to drive very slow due to poor visibilty, i do put on my hazard lights. I experience such fog on trips to Lonavala in the monsoon season.

Putting on the hazards in such fog is a good practice as it improves awareness of your car to other drivers. But it is done purely when there is extreme fog. In general fog, it does not make sense.

P.S. - Mods, i am posting as the editing time for the previous post was over & this thought came to me a little late

[headers]

Originally Posted by Xehaust

wherein you can hardly see 15-20 feet ahead only and are forced to drive very slow due to poor visibilty, i do put on my hazard lights.
Putting on the hazards in such fog is a good practice as it improves awareness of your car to other drivers.

Sir, one does NOT use Hazards on a moving car! It becomes a moving hazard then!

[anupmathur]

Originally Posted by headers

Sir, one does NOT use Hazards on a moving car! It becomes a moving hazard then!

Actually, yes. Hazard lights are for use when stationary.
Using them while moving probably makes it a moving violation!