[COUGAR]

Originally Posted by bIte tHe bulLet

i am not as in your words an 'egoistic underarm-deo deprived call-centre trash' who rode to ladakh to score a notch on my belt...

Thats nice to hear. But a casual look at some "ladakh ride" special forums reveals that the profile of the average leh rider has indeed changed in the manner described before. Nobody said it applied to you.

Originally Posted by bIte tHe bulLet

I'm sure the 'touring community' you refer to has found newer avenues to explore....it's just really funny that i still found about 3 different groups of people on my trip who had all been to Ladakh a minimum of 3 times each before this trip and were still having a really good time

I am sure I would have a "good time" on any ride bro: even now if i rode down to Leh AGAIN! Its the question of having a "good time" and a "rocking time". As I said earlier, Ladakh has now become quite stale and crowded. That old charm that attracted us to ride to Ladakh is waning off. There are newer destinations opening up.

Originally Posted by bIte tHe bulLet

I don't accept that the challenge of doing Ladakh is gone... It may have become slightly easier, (when i first did the trip in 1999, our food was restricted to maggi and thukpa only) this time i ate dal chawal on two separate occasions.

So people do Ladakh for the "Challenge"? If food is the challenge, may i recommend carrying MTR ready to eat meal packs which can be warmed up with an electric kettle?

Originally Posted by bIte tHe bulLet

Yes, as time goes by, places become better known and people want to be a part of the same great adventure they get to hear about.

True true. Some of us atleast dont want to be with the crowd and rather discover new trails...!

[aargee]

Check out this news - 50 killed in Leh cloudburst, flash floods - India News - IBNLive
Hopefully no tourists are affected by this. What's your say on this Vivek?

[bIte tHe bulLet]

Originally Posted by COUGAR

Thats nice to hear. But a casual look at some "ladakh ride" special forums reveals that the profile of the average leh rider has indeed changed in the manner described before. Nobody said it applied to you.


I am sure I would have a "good time" on any ride bro: even now if i rode down to Leh AGAIN! Its the question of having a "good time" and a "rocking time". As I said earlier, Ladakh has now become quite stale and crowded. That old charm that attracted us to ride to Ladakh is waning off. There are newer destinations opening up.


So people do Ladakh for the "Challenge"? If food is the challenge, may i recommend carrying MTR ready to eat meal packs which can be warmed up with an electric kettle?



True true. Some of us atleast dont want to be with the crowd and rather discover new trails...!

with all due respect,

this is just getting silly.

MTR food packets to be heated with an electric kettle!!! i used an example of how being able to get food readily today has helped the average person doing the trip. you evidently misunderstood the statement.

and if you can stand here and say that the Ladakh ride does not pose a challenge today (be it lesser than maybe even 10 years ago), i'm gobsmacked enough to just shut up...

as i can see, you have very strong opinions on the subject at hand and i see no reason (or need) to oppose them. as they say, "opinions are like...."

allow me to take this opportunity to wish you well and may you have a fantastic run of exploring new and exciting pastures 'away from the crowds' of people like myself and people who earn an honest wage at call centers.

i'm happy to follow true adventurers like you after you take first pickings, since you are obviously better qualified to do so.

take care cougar.

ak

[vivekiny2k]

Originally Posted by aargee

Check out this news - 50 killed in Leh cloudburst, flash floods - India News - IBNLive
Hopefully no tourists are affected by this. What's your say on this Vivek?

What can I say. It is a natural calamity.

I would have a say if it happened where 100s of cars were waiting and no place to escape or rescue to team to arrive. I haven't heard anything like that yet and I dope I don't.


@bIte tHe bulLet and cougar. Yes, it is getting silly. It is perfectly acceptable for every single individual to seek adventure. no matter how it's sponsored or advertised, or what age, profession or vehicle the person associates to. And that shouldn't offend another person from a different background altogether. We just need to use a little common sense when we choose a destination.

[COUGAR]

Originally Posted by bIte tHe bulLet

with all due respect,
and if you can stand here and say that the Ladakh ride does not pose a challenge today (be it lesser than maybe even 10 years ago), i'm gobsmacked enough to just shut up...

Good Lord! Do you even understand english son? Who said anything about Leh not being a challenge? It always will have a challenge factor because of the weather, terrain etc, perhaps even post 2012 when that 4 lane monstrosity starts popping out in this sector.

But my point was that Ladakh has become boring and avoidable because of the crowds of tourists and wannabes. It was the best there was at one time: the "holy-grail" of biking as some might say. But now there are other destinations and other rides which make Ladakh look stale.

I am told that you just came back from your first Ladakh ride and are understandably excited. Takes me back 6 years as well when Ladakh meant the ultimate pinnacle of biker-dom! But since you have started riding now, you should understand that there are other rides to do which are far far more challenging in more ways than one.

Originally Posted by bIte tHe bulLet

this is just getting silly.

I concur.

Perhaps we should wait for the Leh-hangover to pass before discussing this further!

[bIte tHe bulLet]

Originally Posted by COUGAR

Good Lord! Do you even understand english son?

WHOA!!!!!

i do try. it kinda falls apart when people start being condescending towards me...

Originally Posted by COUGAR

I am told that you just came back from your first Ladakh ride and are understandably excited. Takes me back 6 years as well when Ladakh meant the ultimate pinnacle of biker-dom! But since you have started riding now, you should understand that there are other rides to do which are far far more challenging in more ways than one.

my first Ladakh ride yes but after riding to spiti, way back in 1998. and riding to sangla the following year, then driving to Leh in the same year. so, my riding has not started now....it just took a break for 12 years.

i don't ever remember challenging the fact that there are other rides to do, that are more challenging than the current leh ride; my primary contention was with the tone used to describe the people who ride to leh today.

Originally Posted by COUGAR

I concur.

Perhaps we should wait for the Leh-hangover to pass before discussing this further!

and the condescending tone returns!

funnily enough, i drink very little, so my familiarity with hangovers is very limited. however, i'm happy to not discuss this further since we seem to have extremely differing views on the subject.

and i abhor being spoken down to. Especially when dialogue occurs between equals.

[COUGAR]

Originally Posted by bIte tHe bulLet

it kinda falls apart when people start being condescending towards me...

Language Comprehension skills should not be related to extraneous factors. But lets not digress!

Originally Posted by bIte tHe bulLet

i don't ever remember challenging the fact that there are other rides to do, that are more challenging than the current leh ride;

And that was the ONLY point: Riding to Leh is old hat. There are newer avenues. Less crowded, more avenues for photography and yes less of the "trash" referred to earlier.

And speaking of challenging, does a ride remain "challenging", when you have a convoy carrying your bags, medical support staff etc following in a convoy. Just a question.

I dont blame you for feeling on top of the world. A ride to ladakh, especially the first time (RIDING), does give that feeling. We COMPLETELY understand!

[phamilyman]

Its seriously silly and pointless. And some of the one-up language doesn't help. Seriously.

If someone wants hyperbole, I can ask some accomplished cyclists whose manali-leh triplog (only 7 days) was like a no-nonsense 20 line account of the locations he saw.

I'm sure such cyclists will say something like:
"And speaking of challenging, how does Ladakh remain "challenging", when you all you do is twiddle a throttle or push pedals all day, and have the ability to carry anything under the sun. Just a question."

Say guys like Delhi to Himalaya and back or this 70 year old gent:


We need to give each other a break and not impose our value judgements on them.

[COUGAR]

well said tau.

"challenging" is a relative term indeed.

[bIte tHe bulLet]

Originally Posted by phamilyman

We need to give each other a break and not impose our value judgements on them.

+1 to that.

Originally Posted by COUGAR

Language Comprehension skills should not be related to extraneous factors. But lets not digress!

i'm truly glad the concept of sarcasm is grasped so well by you!

Originally Posted by COUGAR

less of the "trash" referred to earlier.

i really wish you'd refrain from using the term to describe people, irrespective of how much you despise them. no matter which part of the world you inhabit, it's just flipping impolite.

Originally Posted by COUGAR

We COMPLETELY understand!

your acquaintance has been a real pleasure (sic!) mano. have a great day (life).


i'm old (and hopefully wise enough ) to realise that sometimes, people just don't get on (under other circumstances or time and place, they might get along like a house on fire.) some conversations are like that. all they need to really start working, is for one person to just stop.

hey vivek, apologies for hijacking your thread bro. my bad.

stay sane and be safe,
ak

[COUGAR]

ok man! i give up! Now that you have finally ridden to Ladakh, we all agree that it is the most challenging and bestest ride ever provided it is done on a bullet of course!

happy now?

SIGH!

[tsk1979]

From what I understand, COUGAR, I believe you have seen all that there is to see around Leh(eg. changthang plateaue far flung areas, zanskar, north of hunder.... the list goes on). If not, I wonder how can you say that ladakh is not only for "insert your favorite words here", and "the gods of biking" have moved to other places.

[COUGAR]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

From what I understand, COUGAR, I believe you have seen all that there is to see around Leh(eg. changthang plateaue far flung areas, zanskar, north of hunder.... the list goes on).

Actually we have been to all of these places mentioned! Infact we were among the first lot of bikers to do the Changthang plateau: and the hard way via Spangmik, not the "easy" route via Karu/Mahe! but that dost is not the point.

The point is, it is kind of ridiculous to say that Ladakh is the MOST challenging of all when there are a dozen more drives/rides out there. Try Sikkim. Or Arunachal. Or Sylhet. Or Eastern Uttaranchal. Or a dozen others out there. Challenges there are different but are challenges nevertheless.

Note that most of these posters going gaga with the "Ladakh is the biggest challenge" schlep are those who have just returned from their first "expedition". So i understand the excitement, but lets not get overexcited and mistake the wood for the trees! Its like the blind men with the elephant all over again. or the proverbial frog in the well.

There are hazaar other rides to do and places to explore.

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Gods of biking

who said that?

I just dont see Ladakh as the holy grail of biking/touring. Its a point of view. Respect that.

[deky]

Arrey Bhai Log "Raat gayi Baat Gayi" its a new week let it be a new beginning. You both (and now hopefully not three) have your opinions and since its your personal opinion there is no point in arguing over it.

As Pahmilyman said, challenging is a very relative term so lets just bury the discussion here and move on.

Amen!!

[vivekiny2k]

Originally Posted by bIte tHe bulLet

hey vivek, apologies for hijacking your thread bro. my bad.

no problem,

I am enjoying the benefits of staying married. I know when to shut up .