[ST7677]

I was faced with the same decision when I was picking up my car. The final shortlist had Embera and Civic, and I went with Civic.

____________________________________________


Having said that I have both Honda and Hyundai cars in family, I can clearly vouch for the premium Honda has.

To put things into perspective, If a Scorpio has diesel engine as powerful as CRV, has tech like Tyre pressure monitor, rain sensing wipers, and other gizmos, and more space doesn;t mean it can command the same price premium as CRV.
The same story goes between Hyundai and Honda, but to a lesser extent.

My Hyundai car service technician earlier used to work in Honda service center, and he still swears by the products Honda makes.

[abhijit 2284]

My advise is to wait - btw - what do you think of the captiva?

[vasudeva]

Originally Posted by vasudeva

Sonata is in a different segment than Civic, although effectively you can get a higher segment Hyundai for the price of a lower segment Civic. But Civic wallops Sonata on almost all counts except size. Hyundai may now be making better cars (thinkaboutit.com tries to get this across), but for most people, they have to get over the fact that Hyundai is not Korean for Yugo.

AS I said, Sonata is bigger and more powerful. But on these counts Civic wallops Sonata IMHO:
1. Price
2. Sales figures
3. Resale ease
4. Resale value: a used lower priced Civic may have a higher price than a used higher priced Sonata.

Trust me, I have nothing against Sonata. In fact, I have actively considered Sonata in the past. However, it was out of my budget and size expectations.

[suman]

Originally Posted by vasudeva

1. Price
2. Sales figures
3. Resale ease
4. Resale value: a used lower priced Civic may have a higher price than a used higher priced Sonata.

Very true but nothing from the angle of actual driving experience per se...........or even the comfort factor. And one also needs to remember the savings arising out of price difference between diesel & petrol ( I think the mileage claimed is more or less the same for both) over, say, a 3 year period. Add that to the discount available up front & I don't think you are too far off

[vasudeva]

Yes, comfort is `alleged' to be more in Sonata (I have driven a Civic and heard about Sonata, so cannot confirm about Sonata's better comforts, but am sure about Civic's noise and bumpiness). I also have a car that has some parallels with Sonata and its manufacturer. My Corsa is comfortable and reasonably decent, but try reselling that. Considering that Elantra was phased out because of no sales, and Sonata is in a similar position, what are the possibilities of Sonata meeting the same fate. Do you know that in recent months, Hyundai is producing lesser Sonatas than it is selling, implying liquidation of older stock. It produced 10 in 12/07 but sold 28. Production of 14 in 11/07 but sales of 34. I think as of January 2008, there were around 50-70 Sonatas lying somewhere at Hyundai or its dealers, substantially depreciated because of their 2007 production vintage.

My opinion is coloured by my experience.

[vasudeva]

For whatever it is worth to Indian consumers, CONSUMER REPORTS recently released its `Brand Perception Survey' for 2007 (it caused a ruckus because of the very low rank given to Acura). Note this is perception of consumers, not scientific fact. But in items of desire, perception counts.

Toyota and Honda brands ranked first and second, respectively, by dominant margins over all others. Likewise, the vehicles from those brands have consistently performed well in CR testing, often ranking among the best in their classes, and have been mostly at the top of CR reliability ratings over the years.

Overall Brand Perception Scores: Toyota 189, Honda 146, Ford 112, Chevy 110, GMC 102, Acura 8

Rankings on individual parameters:
Safety: Volvo, Toyota, Subaru, Ford, Honda
Quality: Toyota, Honda, Lexus, Merc, Chevrolet.
Value: Honda, Saturn, Toyota, Kia, Ford
Performance: BMW, Porsche, Chevy, Toyota, Honda
Environment Friendly: Toyota, Honda, Ford, Chevy, GMC.
dESIGN: Merc, Lexus, Cadillac, BMW, Jaguar
Technology/Innovation: Toyota, Lexus, Honda, Cadillac, BMW.

[swageo]

drivability of Civic in stop-and-go trafic conditions (city) is an area of concern. Lack of low end torque makes the engine to vibrate when the cars starts moving in 1st gear or you need to declutch heavily. I don't understand how honda could ignore this issue

Looks, nothing close to Civic. I saw even merc guys admiring the looks of Civic on the road.

By the way, I own a Civic

[shatrughna]

wow Vasudeva - I admire the amount of info you have and when I decide , to all the friends here, I can definitely say that I made an informed decision. Though my heart still goes for Sonata for its creature comforts and lure of high torque diesel engine but head is tilting towards Civic for peace of mind in sense of resale and better driveability because of honda quality.

ST7677 and Anand also have very relevant experience and I would like to use their experience but it is contradictory to what swageo and suman feel and experienced.

@abhijit- sir, GM has let me down so badly. since Feb 2007 I was waiting for captiva hoping that they will launch LTX model too but what they have launched here is only Manual transmission and hence, sadly, I have no choice but to either buy sonata crdi AT or civic AT and hence, this thread has started.

I had got a Verna VGT SX - in Nov 2007( Rs. 9.25L on road)- can someone , please, tell me , what fair value should I expect in case, I sell it in May/June 2008.

[vasudeva]

If you are considering only (1) AT (2) Civic and Sonata only.

CR headline statement on Sonata: Recommended. Plus: Ride, standard ESC, controls, reliability; Minus: Agility, low dash vents.

According to CR, Sonata is a more refined car than the one it replaced. The 2.4-liter, four-cylinder engine delivers adequate acceleration and returns 23 mpg overall. The 3.3-liter V6 is more responsive and gets 21 mpg. Handling is secure but not particularly agile. Body lean is noticeable, and the steering lacks feedback. The ride is comfortable and quiet but can become buoyant on the highway. Suspension noise detracts from overall refinement. The rear seat is roomy. Fit and finish is very good, and controls are straightforward. Stability control and curtain air bags are standard. Reliability of the V6 has been average and the four-cylinder is well above average. The redesigned Sonata mimics the top-selling Toyota Camry, but costs less. Like the Camry, it has a comfortable, quiet interior, but is less agile.

The Sonata's nice interior materials fit together well and feel sturdy. The steering wheel tilts, but does not telescope, and was too far away for some drivers to fit comfortably. The top-of-the-line LX model comes with a telescoping wheel. Visibility is very good, and narrow roof pillars minimize blind zones. The front seats have sound back support, but the cushion loses support on long trips. The rear seat accommodates three comfortably. Access is easy to the front and rear. The controls are very simple and well-designed. We appreciated the simple radio, but the steering-wheel controls lack tuner or CD track adjustment. The gauges lack contrast in the daytime. Cabin storage is moderate, and the 60/40 rear seats fold to increase capacity inside the nicely lined trunk.


CR on Civic: Recommended. Plus: Acceleration, engine and transmission, fuel economy, cabin storage, standard ESC, reliability. Minus: Steering feel, road noise, rear seat.

CR says: Our top rated sedan has responsive handling and a steady, compliant ride. Road noise is pronounced. The 1.8-liter, four-cylinder engine is refined, works well with the smooth five-speed automatic, and returned 28 mpg with the automatic and 31 mpg with the manual. Instruments are arranged in two tiers, with a high-mounted digital speedometer. Standard safety equipment includes ABS and curtain air bags. Crash-test results are impressive. The GX is a natural-gas-powered model with ultra clean emissions, available in New York and California.

The interior is well finished with hard but nicely textured plastics. Head room is just adequate for tall drivers, though foot room and leg room are generous. A tilt-and-telescoping steering wheel allowed our drivers to find a comfortable position. The fixed-height safety belts can chafe at the neck. The deep dashboard obscures the view of the front of the car, and large roof pillars create some blind zones to the front and rear. Aggressive front-seat bolsters provide excellent lateral support, but feel confining for larger occupants. The rear seat is tight for adults. Front access is easy; the passenger seat slides forward to assist rear access. The two-tier instrument panel takes some getting used to, with the large digital speedometer at the base of the windshield and the analog tachometer below it. Most controls use large, easy-to-turn knobs. Cabin storage is generous with many cubbies. Trunk size is modest, but the rear seats can be folded for more space. A temporary spare tire sits under the rear cargo floor.

[vasudeva]

Wow, you want to sell a car you just bought. What were you thinking. Alternately, if you are so loaded, then why make a choice between Sonata and Civic. Buy both.

[madan80]

Originally Posted by jayguar

If you can spend a little more, Accord V6 A/T would be a much better choice

Not a little, but a considerable amount more. An uncle picked up the V6 AT at 21L.

The Grand vitara comes with all the features (except a cassette player) and an AT for about 15L. I took it for a TD yday, and i fell in love.

Given the choices, I would go with the Embrera, its elegant, and commands a better amount of respect. I personally dont like the civic, having sat and driven one.

Also, The embrera is the Top of the line of Hyundai, so the folks will throw themselves at you to service you, however, there being so many Civics, that might not happen (again, this is a though, and not on actual feedback).

And since you already own a Hyundai, you can negotiate a greater loyalty discount.

[shatrughna]

Hi vasudeva - the write up quoted from CR is not very accurate and relevant in terms of specs seen. I saw height adjustable seatbelt in Civic AT and also the sonata and both have tilt and telescopic steering. Seats are definitely better in sonata with electrically adjustment and also lumbar support.

Also, I would like to mention that sometime back I had enquired about Skoda Rider AT and I was told that there are none available as the model has been stopped. But a few minutes back a dealer has got back and informed me that a rider AT ( diesel) in white colour is available and the price is almost same as Civic V AT . Ineterestingly , another dealer has offered a total of 60K discount incl. corporate discount on 2007 mfd Civic V AT.

Its getting confusing now - but hope to arrive at some decision with your help. Incidentally Skoda Rider AT is also on offer for HDFC employees - benefits upto 70-80K. howzzat!

[vasudeva]

Ignore the instrument part of the review (pasted verbatim by me), and concentrate on common driving experience part. That should hold here too.

Skoda Rider AT over Civic/Sonata: Do not have to go far to read Skoda stories on this website.

Really, if you find more comfort in Sonata and that is your priority, then go for Sonata. Do not worry about resale (unless you plan to sell it in months like your Verna). IMHO, 6-7 years of better comfort in Sonata is more VFM than 2-3 lakhs in resale. If I had the money and was not concerned about resale, I would prefer Sonata.

[Anju]

Vasudeva- Where does Nissan family fits in your list of rankings ?

Sonata in India has image problem much to do with brand image. It never captured anyone's appreciation as it right up there in a sagement of Hondas and Toyotas. Buyer of this segment, image is something which comes first over anything else. Hence buyer's would surely opt for anything from Honda's and Toyota's. Now that's the truth,reality.
Sonata by no means a I bad choice but when you talk about resale, it just not worth it.

So I like the line of Vasudeva which said --
"If I had the money and was not concerned about resale, I would prefer Sonata".---
That sums up the bottomline for Sonata.

So choice is yours,,,,, image,resale just go for Honda's/Toyotas' if not worried go for Sonata which is very well built car and scores on par with its competition.

Cheers
Anju

[vasudeva]

Originally Posted by Anju

Vasudeva- Where does Nissan family fits in your list of rankings ?

Sonata in India has image problem much to do with brand image. It never captured anyone's appreciation as it right up there in a sagement of Hondas and Toyotas. Buyer of this segment, image is something which comes first over anything else. Hence buyer's would surely opt for anything from Honda's and Toyota's. Now that's the truth,reality.

Nissan is not relevant here. Toyota and Honda have a better image but that is not because of more ad money or some brilliant PR and marketing. That image is deserved and earned over more than 3-4 decades of hard work and continuous improvements. Image without product is a rip off and consumers are not fools (at least a majority) to buy on image only for a consistent period of time. Ultimately dissonance sets in (like VW and Merc. which relied on past laurels and now have to work hard to get back).