[Samurai]

Originally Posted by DukeSan27

Its not that they are not trying, e.g.

1. Jayanagar has a parking place above the bus depot (however in all their wisdom they made all roads around it as no parking, even though have sufficent width for parking, and I face the situation of the depot parking being full and no other alternative but go home or drive around),

2. Newer residential complexes are required to have a percentage (10%?) of total parking space reserved for visitors (ours has).

But in this "progressive society" what is the justification for not following the rule beacuse their is no alternative?

The alternatives are provided in the cases you mention. There are parking lots available, if you are early enough or lucky enough. I am talking about cases where there is no option at all. I frequently visit a big public building which allows no visitor vehicles, and has NO-Parking signs around the road in front. I park 100m away and walk to the building to avoid the No Parking boards. If all unmarked areas are non-parking areas, then I might as well leave the car at home. Also, why do they have No-Parking signboards if all unsigned areas are no-parking areas?

Originally Posted by DukeSan27

So we say, old houses/complexes which don't have parking should be allowed to have parking on the road. An old place most likely will have narrow road, so allowing parking there may asking for a traffic jam (Malleshwaram area comes to my mind in this case).

Can we park here and there till the govt is able to clean up all the mess?

Is there a choice? All this mess is happening because Bangalore City planners allowed uncontrolled growth without building infrastructure. Why penalize the citizens for government stupidity?

[deep_bang]

I have wondered about the same question that the OP has asked.
I don't know the law, but i think this is what is practiced practically:
1. The obvious one is, where there is a no parking board, it is no parking.
2. Where is no board, then you can park, provided you use your common sense and make sure it does not hinder anyone, it does not cause a jam, and its not in anyone's pathway.

Well, i am not trying to dilute the discussion here, but i think it all comes back to common sense. Sometimes, police may try to use it to their advantage, but most of the time, even when police fine you, it is because there is some serious inconvinience caused to others.

@Samurai - totally agree on a need to make more parking available in the newer complexes. Just so you know, i think a fair amount is being done in this area. If a new commercial complex has to be approved they also need to show a plan for a certain amount of parking. However, there are disjoint bodies doing this. For example, in Bangalore, the traffic rules are made and controled by Traffic Police, whereas BBMP does the planning. Do they sit together to conduct a scientific study? I dont think so. Are the BBMP rules enforced? Probably not - considering the amount of building violations that take place.

There is also another unwritten rule that as long as there is someone sitting in the drivers seat, its ok to park anywhere. .

There is one thinig i have to thank the Police for - to have started to paste a sticker on the windshield than to tow the cars away (which damages the car).

[noopster]

I agree with Samurai here. It's just silly to expect that the administration will plaster every square inch of "parkable" street space with signs saying "Park here".

Pune has those P1/P2 (odd/even dates) signs on most streets in the downtown. But suburban or far-flung areas don't have any signs (either Parking/No Parking). I think it's reasonable to assume that I can park there legally if I am not obstructing traffic in an obvious manner (say near a bus top or blocking someone's gate or too close to an intersection).

[Spitfire]

Originally Posted by ghodlur

given the scarcity of the parking spaces

Even if we have a million sq/ft added to Parking Only, we will still have scarcity.

See the scarcity is not because we no space. Its due to the fact that we have too many vehicles and too less utilization of public transport.

I feel the present no parking space can be converted into parking zones for specific time periods.

I agree. But managing it could be a big headache. Even today we have the even/odd arrangement but who looks at those.

Originally Posted by Added_flavor

"Indian way of thinking".

Yes a very selfish way of thinking. People want to park right next to the shop entrance they want to visit or right in front of that friends doorstep.

Originally Posted by libranof1987

depends mostly on the cops' whims.

See like the BTP answer above you really don't have a choice. It gives the traffic police unwanted powers but they have a job to do. I dont think they have a personal thing with that. Unless you are good for giving bribe instead of paying the fine. That's a different matter altogether and is surely an issue with both sides

The onus then lies on the BTP to ensure they clearly demarcate parking slots. And avoid the pay-park nexus.

And we as vigilant citizens bring it to their notice or work on getting it implemented with their involvement. Its needs to start at a society/community level. We instead take the easier way out.

Originally Posted by honeybee

is a matter of choice by the respective RTO / Traffic authorities.

The rule is not specifically laid out. But the implementation varies.

Originally Posted by Samurai

No, I absolutely disagree with that. Progressive societies provide proper facilities/alternatives before banning a certain behavior.

Can you give me a spot in Bangalore where no proper parking is available? Please see that it is not on the doorstep of the place you want to get in or is in such a location that there is no way of getting to this place without parking the car/bike 10 meter away from it.

And if you know of such a place where no parking is available then why not take the public transport to that place instead. The government absolutely provides that. It is a facility/alternative to our car/bike.

The primary problem with our government rules is that, it only hands out restrictions, but makes no attempt to provide alternatives.

This is a crib by every passive citizen who can only point fingers.

I will give you an example.

BWSSB is doing work on ORR. Service roads are dug up. How do people manage then commuting on here?

I even saw a TATA Ace coming down the wrong side with the traffic police right in front of us. I approached the Traffic police and he said we are giving them "concession" as the service road is dug up.

That got me thinking. So this is a problem no one wants to solve.

So I approached the Traffic Station at this place and spoke to a top guy. He agreed to my plan.

What we did was simple. The people coming down the wrong side were coming right upto the busy intersection, creating lot of problems.

We got a crane from the BWSSB guys and created a temporary ramp about 200 meter before the intersection so that people coming down the wrong side can get on the service road much before getting on to the intersection.

Issue resolved to a large extent until the BWSSB clears up for good.

One needs to take up the issues as their own. I could have pointed fingers too and get on with my cribbing.

First, provide enough legal parking areas. If you ban parking everywhere, then citizens have no choice but break it.

Which areas don't have enough legal parking space? Please be sure again like above that it is not right next to where you want to go or is in such a location in the heart of city that you cannot get there without taking your car and cant depend on public transport at all.

Don't allow any public building to be built without ample parking for both employees and visitors. In case of old buildings, allow road side parking. Any private/public building that has regular visitors must provide parking inside. If they can't, road side parking should be allowed.

If you visit such a place, did you try speaking to them about it?

Imagine a public building with no parking inside and no parking outside on roads. What are visitors supposed to do? First, give a solution, then make rules.

Why does parking have to be at the doorstep?

I park my car in my office and take a bus to Central Business District in Bangalore, if the need arises for me. A distance of 5 kms from my office. I have parking in my office. What is your case?

To go to commercial street, I park in Domlur and take a bus to Commercial street. I have parking.

Every shop still uses plastic covers.

In Goa they did the same thing. Sale of plastic bags in banned. You and me can walk into the Public Works Building and complain against a store. I did against a Jeans Showroom. They confiscated all the plastic bags from there within 24 hours.

Bangalore is too corrupt for me to try such things. I do though. But I always am a bit scared. The regional card is played quite well by both citizens and locals here. So I am wary.

But others can. They wont. Have you complained to BBMP about a store selling banned plastic bags?

I am sure there is a rule banning peeing on public roads. But how many well-maintained public toilets are found on our highways?

There are quite a few on the Goa-Bangalore highway. My wife and kid travel with me and we have not had any problems. If there is need on specific roads, have you tried asking for them with the right authorities?

In future, if they ban breathing in public, how many of us are going to comply? Don't know about you, but I won't.

Please don't trivialize this.

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

My question in that thread was about whether I was within rules in parking there and the 1st line of your post was in the affirmative.

When I said within rules it was considering it was within what is mentioned in MV Act. We debated that too.

It certainly does not exist in Chennai.

I think there are certainly places where you can park. Like I said above show me one place where you have to take your car and I will show you a parking spot.

Will you drive back to the flyover, park underneath and catch an auto to the hospital ?

Yes I will. Or catch a bus. I do it.

Or drive around and park on one of the streets near the hospital ? Most normal people would do the latter.

I wouldn't do that.

But if there is a paid parking lot nearby, quite some of these would gladly park there, but hey we only have rules, not the facilities.

Did you bring this to the notice of the authorities?

No harm in thinking of oneself as the perfect citizen in all respects, but to assume that everyone else out there has the only agenda to violate rules or does not know rules or driving or is selfish or not progressive, is to put it plainly, being too full of oneself.

That was uncalled for personal attack man. Grow up.

Its called being an ideal citizen. Sorry if you don't get it. These are basics of living in a society not rocket science.

Originally Posted by mayankjha1806

"Drive 5-6 Kms away to don't know where and walk all the way back to shop".

Why not take a bus/auto from there instead of walking.

Same is the case with hospitals, do they expect the patients to walk all the way

Can you name a hospital in Bangalore that asked you to first park the car somewhere and then get the patient into their building?

Originally Posted by DukeSan27

But in this "progressive society" what is the justification for not following the rule beacuse their is no alternative?

People in this city buy houses without confirming whether all norms are being followed or not. The society is to be blamed because they will still buy illegal property.

so allowing parking there may asking for a traffic jam (Malleshwaram area comes to my mind in this case).

That mall and the residents of that area is an example of degraded society. Now the corporators are asking more. Its quite obvious who wants what and for what? The spineless junta around take the burden everyday and suffer.

Originally Posted by markmytravel

Problem, no place to park near-by and searching for parking would mean an hour of time waste.

If you look at it there is no place to park anywhere. But does it justify parking anywhere?

Originally Posted by Samurai

If all unmarked areas are non-parking areas, then I might as well leave the car at home.

So whats the problem with that?

Surely where you are going is not having sufficient parking. So either you go early or take an alternative. Parking anywhere you please is a solution for one individual.

Also, why do they have No-Parking signboards if all unsigned areas are no-parking areas?

I think they expect commonsense from us.

Or maybe to take the illogical example you took above why not have Please breathe boards everywhere?

Why penalize the citizens for government stupidity?

So why do the citizens not penalize the government for their stupidity?

[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by Spitfire

When I said within rules it was considering it was within what is mentioned in MV Act.

My query in that thread was simply that - did I park wrongly as per the MV Act ? And you agreed that it was not wrong. I was not looking for your comments on another dimension to the whole thing about how accepting the other party's wrong demand would not dent anyone's ego and a situation could have been avoided - that discussion could be for another day, another thread.

Originally Posted by Spitfire

I think there are certainly places where you can park. Like I said above show me one place where you have to take your car and I will show you a parking spot.

Let us start with where this whole thing happened - in Dandeeshwaram @ Velachery. Show me a road there which has spots marked for parking by the authorities and which has signage indicating the same in a 2km radius of that place. Or a public parking lot in the area where I can park my car and walk to my friend's place ? The nearest I know would be the space under the Velachery flyover which is easily 2-3kms away. I walk around 4kms a day, but there is obviously no point in visiting someone by car when you have to park your car 2 kms away - a few hundred metres should not be an issue.

Once you are done with that, do identify a public parking lot in the vicinity of Apollo-Chennai apart from the 1-side of the road leading to it, which cannot even accomodate 1/5th of the cars visiting the hospital.

Originally Posted by Spitfire

Yes I will. Or catch a bus. I do it.

Yeah, even while typing that question, I knew the answer from you. You will drive 5kms away to find the legal parking spot even when you are at the hospital for something critical, catch an auto to the hospital and once the job is done, catch an auto to the parking lot, get your car and drive home. What's the whole point of using the car then ?

Originally Posted by Spitfire

That was uncalled for personal attack man. Grow up.
Its called being an ideal citizen. Sorry if you don't get it. These are basics of living in a society not rocket science.

You seem to conveniently forget that you started it in the opening post with your "selfish/progressive" theory. And BTW one of the basics of living in a society is about knowing how to exchange thoughts/ideas without always sounding pompous/sarcastic/rude. And that is no rocket science either - hopefully you will grow up one day to make sense of this basic fact.

[Samurai]

Sigh, within minutes of posting my reply, I realised you are going to come back with activism logic. I am surprised you didn't ask me whether I have voted.

No, I don't do activism. My life is too complicated for that, and I know you won't understand.

[supremeBaleno]

I knew that the whole thing about "all unsigned areas being no-parking zones by default" was a load of bull, irrespective of what some keyboard-happy constable from Blore police says on the Dept's social networking page. Same goes for the "roads are not for parking and parking on roads is illegal/stupid" theory by the OP which is supposedly based on common-sense, and not on any rule in the MV Act. Just that google did not throw up any useful details from the Indian Motor Vehicle Act other than legalese that covered up more than it clarified. Finally decided to search at the pages of MV departments of individual state governments and found this detailed and useful information on the Kerala Govt's site :

15. Parking of the vehicle
(1) Every driver of a motor vehicle parking on any road shall park in such a way that it does not cause or is not likely to cause danger, obstruction or undue inconvenience to other road users and if the manner of parking is indicated by any sign board or markings on the road side, he shall park his vehicle in such manner.

(2) A driver of a motor vehicle shall not park his vehicle --
(i) at or near a road crossing, a bend, top of a hill or a humpbacked bridge;
(ii) on a foot-path;
(iii) near a traffic light or pedestrian cross.;
(iv) in a main road or one carrying fast traffic;
(v) opposite another parked vehicle or as obstruction to other vehicle;
(vi) along side another parked vehicle;
(vii) on roads or at places or roads where there is a continuous white line with or without a broken line;
(viii) near a bus stop, school or hospital entrance or blocking a traffic sign or entrance to a premises or a fire hydrant;
(ix) on the wrong side of the road;
(x) where parking is prohibited;
(xi) away from the edge of the footpath.

Gist : From the above, it is clear that parking on roads is not illegal as made out to be by the OP, provided you adhere to certain conventions laid out, which are clearly listed. Also all unsigned-areas do not become Noparking by default as claimed by the OP.

Though it took some time and effort to ferret out this information, I am glad this info was not only available in the public domain, but is also on a Govt site which gives it authenticity. Else, we would have no option but to go by individual opinion which is not only wrong but is not backed by any defined norms/rules other than rhetoric.

[Spitfire]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

Chennai

The thread is about Bangalore Traffic Police and parking in Bangalore. Your thread was an illustration of why. You were not really pointed at in this one.

Yeah, even while typing that question, I knew the answer from you.

So you find it hard to believe?

You will drive 5kms away to find the legal parking spot even when you are at the hospital for something critical,

If something is that critical I would be calling an ambulance. LOL!! You are arguing just because I quoted your thread. Don't get all worked up please it was not against you. GAWD!! Get a good sleep.

thoughts/ideas without always sounding pompous/sarcastic/rude.

You find it all that, stay away.

You want to see a pompous thread. Check this: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shifti...-obstacle.html

Simple solution being blown up to gigantic proportions. Break that thing with a hammer man. No one cares about a half buried mile stone. You made a big story out of it. With pictures and all..

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

I knew that the whole thing about "all unsigned areas being no-parking zones by default" was a load of bull, irrespective of what some keyboard-happy constable from Blore police says on the Dept's social networking page.

That's a new one. I have to agree you know better. Cause I think if that keyboard happy constable does put his foot in his mouth he might as well lose his job. To be viewed by such a big community which can create legal implications for him or his department. Being keyboard happy is the last thing he could be. But then maybe you know more. Could you clarify how this constable as you say he is get away with such a thing?

Also all unsigned-areas do not become Noparking by default as claimed by the OP.

Not me Bangalore Traffic Police. Its another point that you think they are free to give rubbish on a social media site.

Else, we would have no option but to go by individual opinion which is not only wrong but is not backed by any defined norms/rules other than rhetoric.

No where have you proved what I said was wrong. What are you proclaiming then?

[NPV]

@Spitfire - very relevant and interesting thread !
Again, in Bangalore it is very evident that "Parking" and "No Parking" signs are not placed after giving serious (rather any) thought to safety, convenience, logic/common sense and such factors. It is based on the whims and fancies of the cops (so that they can make a quick buck) and very often influenced by 'important' residents of certain areas and traders/shopkeepers. One example on 100 feet Road Indiranagar - the parking in front of the shops is on the road so anyone can park there but most shops have a security guard who will tell you that parking is only for customers of that shop !
I have a hunch that our Bangalore cops are again out to do something more bizzare/confusing since I read couple days ago in the paper that they will make a 200 metre radius around all the BMTC TTMC's a "No Parking" zone so that people use the parking that will be available in the new TTMC buildings.
Also, I believe that our authorities are always in favour of confusion being present in every aspect (most things will not be spelt out clearly/correctly/consistently) since that's the easiest way they can make money unoffically by going out of the way to 'help' people for a small fee on the side (we are a surviving anarchy !).

EDIT:Sorry for the cynicism, the system has made me so !

[ukderebail]

The number of vehicles are getting added to Bangalore is in geometric proportion, in this context vehicle parking space is getting more and more limited. I disagree with the version dished out by the dept, that only if parking board is put up than parking is allowed. Imagine the resources required to put up the board. It is better to adopt our own standard of restricting parking through no parking signage.

If anybody has noticed in some places NO PARKING signage is used for the benefit of an establishment particularly hotels. The security guard will boldly say please park it below the no parking signage i will take care.

The worst phenomenon is that some areas have become private roads and no parking is strictly enforced for outsiders vehicle, which is taking law into their own hands.

Originally Posted by Samurai

I frequently visit a big public building which allows no visitor vehicles, and has NO-Parking signs around the road in front. I park 100m away and walk to the building to avoid the No Parking boards. If all unmarked areas are non-parking areas, then I might as well leave the car at home. Also, why do they have No-Parking signboards if all unsigned areas are no-parking areas?

Is there a choice? All this mess is happening because Bangalore City planners allowed uncontrolled growth without building infrastructure. Why penalize the citizens for government stupidity?

I believe the residential apartments are duty bound to provide parking space for visitors, maybe they can have restricted timing or hours, and charge a fee beyond no of hours as per the society bye laws. Commercial complexes are already providing paid parking on hourly basis. For example Mantri mall charges Rs 30 for a slot of 2 hours now. I believe the charges should be levied on 30 minutes basis, so that people use parking for limited period and rotation of parking takes place.

Note from the Team-BHP Support Team: Please use the "edit" button if posting within 30 minutes of the first post, instead of creating another back-to-back post.

Also use "Multi Quote" option for quoting Multiple posts.

[noopster]

There is absolutely no reason to make this an ego clash or a contest as to who the better citizen is. And I for one did not realise that "this thread is about Bangalore only".

Simple fact: the government is not your nanny- do not expect it to plaster "Park Here" signs across the country telling you where to park. The guidelines have been clearly drawn up as several posters have clarified- the rest is common sense.

[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by Spitfire

The thread is about Bangalore Traffic Police and parking in Bangalore. Your thread was an illustration of why. You were not really pointed at in this one.

If this was about Blore, why would you refer to a Chennai-parking thread in your opening post ? Also AFAIK parking-rules are more-or-less the same across the country.

Originally Posted by Spitfire

If something is that critical I would be calling an ambulance.

Most people go to hospitals because it is critical - not because they are bored. And you don't call an ambulance every time you have to drop in to the hospital.

Originally Posted by Spitfire

You are arguing just because I quoted your thread. Don't get all worked up please it was not against you. GAWD!! Get a good sleep.

The argument is because your whole premise about "parking on roads is not allowed" is flawed. And in support of which you quote something from FB, which does not stand scrutiny even by the laws enforced by the cops themselves. Regarding the sleep thingy, since you have been up till 1AM as per your last post, I guess you should apply your own advice.

Originally Posted by Spitfire

Simple solution being blown up to gigantic proportions. Break that thing with a hammer man. No one cares about a half buried mile stone.

If it was just a stone, that would have been the solution. But it is signage installed by the government and one can't go about totalling it, even if the intent behind it is good.

Originally Posted by Spitfire

Now where have you proved what I said was wrong. What are you proclaiming then?

In the other thread about Chennai parking, you claimed that roads are not for parking and everyone else is ignorant of this theory. Sample your pearls of wisdom from the thread :

Originally Posted by Spitfire

public roads are not meant for parking cars. Unless they are demarcated as such.

Originally Posted by Spitfire

The replies to the thread are utterly ignorant one's. A road is "NOT" a free for all parking area.

Originally Posted by Spitfire

He has parked on a public road. That's not allowed. If you leave a vehicle in such a spot there needs to be a qualified driver in it at all times.

Originally Posted by Spitfire

You can park a vehicle on a public road only if there is a qualified person to move it whenever required.

In this thread, you put forth a new theory that all places (including roads) are by default No Parking zones, even if there is no signage banning parking. But the M.V. rules quoted in a previous post make it clear that parking on roads is not a crime as you make it out to be, as long as the sub-clauses are not violated. This is where your theory is proved wrong. One can indeed park on the roads, as long as it is not a main road, is not near a bend/turn/signal/pedCrossing, is not on the wrong side of the road, where signage prohibits parking, does not block access etc. So to push a theory that parking on the roads is absolutely wrong is to mislead people.

Originally Posted by noopster

The guidelines have been clearly drawn up as several posters have clarified- the rest is common sense.

Indeed. Our M.V. rules can be called archaic, but if one notices, the sub-clauses clearly cover all the situations where parking on roads will be dangerous to others. Infact if we follow these subclauses, there is no need to even apply discretionary common-sense, because the rules are quite exhaustive.

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by Spitfire

On the Bangalore Traffic Police Facebook Page one of the users asked the below question:

1. If there is no "No Parking" sign, does that mean that it's okay to park there?
2. Or is everywhere a no parking zone unless there is a parking board?

Bangalore Traffic Police Answered:

1. No.
2. Yes.

Now that raises a lot of questions especially when I had some comments on this thread against my line of thought. And the above vindicates my stand.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shifti...who-right.html

I think Bangalore Traffic Police is perfectly correct above. And is the right thing to do in a progressive society.

I have observed the same in a lot of other countries.

We in India are still backward in our thought process and still think in a very selfish way.

I would like to see the forums comments on this.

Bangalore police is not the elected representatative of the citizens of this country(which is a democracy), and therefore it cannot tell you what is right, or what is wrong.
They are civil servants, paid salary, by the republic of India, to enforce the motor vehicles act. you are asking the wrong people.
There is a reason, that we have legislature, the executive and the judiciary arms of the govt.
Legistlature - Makes laws
Executive - Enforces them
Judiciary - Their job is to sort the disputes when somebody disagrees with the executive enforcement.

For example.
Chandigarh police said, all TINTS are illegal.
Case goes to court.
Court gives judgement, that according to the MV act, certain percentage is allowed.

Same case here.

Rather than some silly social networking site of the executive, show us the "MV act" or a court order, only then your claims are valid, otherwise, they are just your and bangalore police opinion, which do not count for anything.

[suman]

Spitfire, sometimes in life, its best to move on & drop the baggage

[Spitfire]

Originally Posted by suman

Spitfire, sometimes in life, its best to move on & drop the baggage

I am always at peace with myself man.

But sad to see uncalled personal remarks. So I am avoiding replying to my own thread.

Some even went to the extent of saying that I do all this activism because I don't have anything else to do. Imagine the grudge some of them hold against me.