[reverse_gear]

Originally Posted by alpha1

Right, but then it is already at this situation.
The only thing is that using window dressing it is able to portray a "developed nation" way of life. Whereas in reality it is in perhaps as pathetic condition as lot of Asian nations.

Fake employment, fake pension, fake benefits, fake sense of future well being. This has been the path that it has been ever since even before joining EU. This fake world was financed by ever increasing govt debt.

Please see my comments in the context of currency devaluation if they introduce their own currency, this is not a generic comment about the state of Greek economy or their politics. To clarify,
- Greece does not have investment losses in the context of new currency, since they are still in EUR. This will have to be factored in if they exit EUR.
- Greece does not have inflation, in fact there is rapid deflation.

If everything about the economy is "fake", then by introducing their own currency they will only get a "fake" sense of nationalism, nothing more. This is not to say that they should not do it. But they need to address the problems first.

[drsingh]

Originally Posted by alpha1

Thanks.
So it is not that China is printing its currency.
It is earning USD by selling Chinese manufactured stuff and investing those USD by buying US govt and corporate bonds.

This is US's problem that they are not manufacturing anything which China wants. If they were making something worthwhile at competitive prices, then China would spend those USDs to buy American stuff.

Now I see that the econocomix linked in the last page has jingoist political connotations!

The US is using its war machine to furthur Chinese oil policy in the middle east. I would say China is getting a say in US policy by investing in the US government.

[Samurai]

A very nice explaining the Greece Crisis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8xAXJx9WJ8

[alpha1]

Greece crisis should be shown to all the people who want us to head back to gold standard. When the Govt doesn't control the currency, it doesn't have any power to use it for governance purpose.

[RSR]

Originally Posted by alpha1

Greece crisis should be shown to all the people who want us to head back to gold standard. When the Govt doesn't control the currency, it doesn't have any power to use it for governance purpose.

As far as forms of government go, the more power a government has, the more corrupt (not just monetarily corrupt) and eventually more EVIL it becomes!

The only way to keep governments from becoming EVIL is to keep power in the hands of citizenry, and delegate the very little that is necessary to the government for purposes of governance. Governments are meant to be servants of the people, not the masters they think themselves to be!

The power obtained through controlling a country's economy is far more than the power obtained through making its laws. A certain person is known to have shamelessly boasted, "Give me control of a nation's money, and I care not who makes its laws!"

The wet dream of every tin-pot tyrant, every megalomaniac dictator, and every crooked politician is to wield as much power as they can, in order to keep everyone enslaved.

There is a reason why the most civilised countries in the world hold citizens' rights to be greater and far more important than governments' powers. On the contrary, the most uncouth countries in the world happen to be lowly hellholes where governments' powers are unlimited and citizens' rights are virtually non-existent.

Even the constitution framers of India who gave more importance to governments' power than citizens' rights (as with the constitution of any other typical Third World country) were able to see the wisdom in keeping the control of money supply away from government, and in the hands of the Reserve Bank of India (RBI), which was created in pre-1947 India through the RBI Act of 1934.

[alpha1]

Originally Posted by RSR

... were able to see the wisdom in keeping the control of money supply away from government, and in the hands of the Reserve Bank of India (RBI), which was created in pre-1947 India through the RBI Act of 1934.

Agree with all that you have said, but since we all have come to accept (perhaps I don't include myself though) the whole idea behind having a government as such; and that such a govt, since it is not a dictatorship, has to pander to the public's populist demands every now and then in order to stay in power. If it operates with a currency over which it doesn't have any control and still continues being populist - it will turn into Greece.

On the other matter, The RBI, The Fed, The ECB, all finance the respective Govt spending. So you are right that it is autonomous and can refuse to support (mostly populist) Govt's spendthrift life, but usually that never happens.

[jagan0677]

Originally Posted by alpha1

Greece crisis should be shown to all the people who want us to head back to gold standard. When the Govt doesn't control the currency, it doesn't have any power to use it for governance purpose.

You are saying that a Brussels-controlled EUR is the same as gold? Really?

[NetfreakBombay]

Originally Posted by jagan0677

You are saying that a Brussels-controlled EUR is the same as gold? Really?

It is same as Gold from Greece's point of view. I.e. govt can't devalue the currency (print more money) to finance expenditure.

[arunkumarsarat]

Originally Posted by Samurai

A very nice video explaining the Greece Crisis.

Saw the video twice. Thank you.

It has a little bit of history, trade, politics and economic policy. So, a common currency alone is not enough to unify Europe, it also needs a strong fiscal union.


Even the cultural differences between countries can make them economically vulnerable. Fiscal policy is as important as monetary policy and Greece is a warning to countries indulging in spending more than their tax revenue.

[Samurai]

This explains the flaw behind the stupid trickle down economics: http://www.theguardian.com/business/...omy-tax-havens

[sudev]

@Samurai That link gives security warning on credentials certificate

[mallumowgli]

A snippet :

"If we could figure out how to tax all this offshore wealth without killing the proverbial golden goose, or at least entice its owners to reinvest it back home, this sector of the global underground is easily large enough to make a significant contribution to tax justice, investment and paying the costs of global problems like climate change," Henry says

This is the question actually. How do you entice the super rich to invest anywhere? Developed economies are just crawling along. The new economies like China and India are too risky with unsure policies. Then there is Greece and the IS. No new breakthrough technologies, no new worlds to discover, not even any new world order to look forward to!! We are in for a long gloomy future when the supposed movers and shakers play safe

Originally Posted by sudev

@Samurai That link gives security warning on credentials certificate

A few days back it told me the same thing - I accepted the risk (Anyway it is the website of the Guardian!)

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by sudev

@Samurai That link gives security warning on credentials certificate

That is a http link, not https. Why certificate warning?

[sudev]

Originally Posted by Samurai

That is a http link, not https. Why certificate warning?

Could not understand why warning popped up. Again tried it and no warning showed up.

Only problem ignored by article is that it is usually not just taxation reasons that the money is kept out.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by sudev

Only problem ignored by article is that it is usually not just taxation reasons that the money is kept out.

What are the other reasons?