[Nissan1180]

Originally Posted by concorde24

Suggestion: Instead of searching for an ATM, ask your parents/friends to visit branch. Crowd has definitely reduced after stopping the cash exchange and you can withdraw upto Rs.24,000 per week. If you are lucky you can choose lower denominations and you don't need to queue up infront of ATM again. My bank has given me Denominations of 10 (x200=Rs.2000) and 20 (x200=Rs.4000) and rest in Rs. 2000 notes. I have not used the 2000 note till now but 10, 20 notes are very useful for sabzi/travel.

Even 2000 is a problem in the area where I stay.
My dad has been using cards since 1997 so they know what electronic money is.
That's not the issue.

Am quite surprised at this statement. Please see below on getting cash from the branch. Since both your parents are well educated, this seems absurd. Also, please suggest them to start going the online way. We, here in Mumbai are big time users of online grocery stores and they delivery very good stuff 99% of the times.

There is no point in struggling in the queue and then giving out all the cash and going to the queue again. Time to think of alternatives to save time & paper cash. Am sure your maid / servant will have bank accounts too, please start transacting cash to their accounts (that's what we do). Your parents may also order the groceries for them (along with your parents' order to save on shipping costs) so that they don't have to deal with spending cash on a daily basis; such things will save a lot of time for all involved in the chain.

I'm not sure if she uses her bank account-we've told her to but like many, she does what's more convenient- transact in cash.
The point is not only that they are inconvenienced.
It is that the infrastructure is not ready for this change. I'm not sure where you saw a queue at a branch that's smaller than the one that existed a few days ago. At least in Ahmedabad (the part where I stay) and Kolkata, that's not the case. It may smaller be in select cities.
I would love to use PayTm for a kirana store purchase but I cannot do it till the owner decides to accept it. Big Basket and other online grocery stores are good, but then I don't think it is correct to force people to switch their medium of shopping because the Government would be unable to give them their own money in denominations that are used in common transactions. Anyway, I hope everyone else is satisfied with how this is implemented and black money becomes a term used in Indian history books soon.

[bblost]

I had a different experience while buying a new tap at a hardware store.
Bill was 280.

I asked the shop guy if he wanted to swipe my credit card or accept a 2000 rupees note. Jokingly I added if he wanted an old 500 rupee note. This was a five hundred note I had found earlier today while cleaning my wardrobe.
He gladly accepted the old note and gave me change.

I have never bought anything from this shopkeeper before this and he was not doing it as a favour. Was just another business transaction for him.

[hemanth.anand]

People were complaining about cash crunch and all the inconvenience caused to them by the PM.

Then a chaat store in Mysore (ironically that's where the new currency is printed) comes up with this advertisement.


And this is what happens.

http://youtu.be/qI-E5zst1ic

The commentary in the video is in Kannada. The person who took the video is saying
"A long queue with no complaints whatsoever. People complain to stand in front of ATM. They call for a bandh, but they can stand in a long queue for 5 hours together. This is our people"

[mvadg]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

I read it; and here is the thing about economists - for every Debroy, there is an Amartya Sen or a Raghuram Rajan.

On the entire subject, the first lesson from my distant past in Eco 101, where the first Economics taught was Micro Economics, was : "Economics is based on the assumption that Man is a rational being".

Check out Dan Ariely ( Behavioral Economics ) - I've not read his books, but I did go through his course videos on Coursera - enjoyed it immensely and learnt a lot.

[sdp1975]

From http://www.goldcore.com/ie/gold-blog...s-war-on-cash/

Governments’ push toward electronic accounts and transactions is ultimately driven by the desire of the modern States to exert maximum control over private wealth and incomes

Quite a nice article on the risks of a cashless society.

[earthian]

I have been quietly reading the posts in this thread since the past 4-5 days, after having posted some comments immediately following demonetisation. Yes, there has been difficulties faced by quite a few in their day to day lives. Business has been affected, daily wagers without jobs, economic slowdown, threat and fears of deflation, some very heart breaking unfortunate deaths.

There has been outrage at the implementation strategy, or the lack of one, as some so eloquently put it. There has been derision expressed at the knee jerk reactions of the Government, at their frequent extensions of largesse by way of waiver of tolls, bank fees and such. There has been concern expressed whether this would in any way lead to a better and stronger India.

The opposition smelled a conspiracy. The main aim being the ensuing elections. The ruling party has converted its 'black' and in one blow felled the opposition. There has been talk of a scam of gigantic proportions- of astronomical sums that leave one tottering to grapple with the sheer magnitude that they represent- and leave one wondering as to what 'goods', 'power', 'position' or comfort that these could buy, that is not readily available to the alleged conspirators.
There has been proven stories of the hoarders having converted their 'black' to 'white', albeit at a cost, and the government got nothing. There have been stories of jewelers having made huge profits, currency transactions, and so on.

Yes, there have been quite a few comments...and not so forgiving too.

I grew up in a typical middle class family, where a monthly budget was made and moneys put in envelopes for every expense. My mother, would somehow scrimp and scrounge, and try and save a few rupees for unforeseen expenses or buying that coveted shoe for me, which was pending for 6 months. Any requirement not covered in the monthly budget would evict a response: "Parkalam" meaning "we shall see" in Tamil. A phrase i hated most. It did not mean a definite "Yes" or a definite "No". It kept one in suspense and one was loath to take umbrage or such steps that could swing a possible "Yes" into a definite "No". So one waited. With bated breath. Do not misunderstand. I had a happy childhood. Money was short, but happiness was not. Getting a cycle to go to school kept one on a high for months. What i mean is that we learnt to value money, for the goodies it could buy...but more importantly, we learnt to be happy with what we had, and what we could dream to get.....hopefully one day.

It was this hope that was used to spur one to do well in studies by the parents. We were trained to be competitive, to work hard, to study hard, so that we could "Munuku varalaam" meaning come up in life. An euphemism which meant fulfilment of one's dreams, of being respected in society, of being rich, of having that status. In short everything that one did not have at that time.
And that is what we did. Worked hard. This would be the story of the huge middle class in the 60's, whether lower, middle or upper (middle class).

The values that we were drummed with was honesty, hard work, civic behaviour and so on. Some of the typical middle class moralities. I still, unfortunately as it seems, have the same moral values.
Now we see different values being nurtured, being appreciated, even admired by some. These values do what we tried to do with hard work, diligent study and honest application. These values buy that degree, buy that mark, get that job through influence, surmount every problem that one encounters . Did you, in a fit of righteous anger, shoot a stupid person who dared to overtake you on the road? And he died? What a bummer. But wait! We shall fix that. Money counts. Do you want your child to become a doctor, but unfortunately does have the chutzpa? No problem. Money would fix that. You want an out of turn goods, service. Money would fix that. And so on....

Such culture has over the past 3 decades or more become the only world that our children have seen. This is the world they have been born into, have studies in, have struggled in. They see their friends get that medical seat, even though they have scored lesser marks than themselves. They question these middle class morals that is constraining them, preventing them from coming up in life. The values required for "Munuku Varalaam" have changed. They see their parents as fuddy duddies as we used to see our parents.

Under such scenario, is this the world we would like our children grow up into? Is this the India of which we dreamed? Did each one of us not, at some point in our lives, yearn for an India which commanded respect, was looked up by the other countries, was feared by our enemies, was emulated by our neighbours. I have dreamt. And i still dream. When i used to travel abroad ( and i have travelled quite a bit) i used to feel upset at the injustice Indians faced. Once when i was in Kenya, our Ambassador Of India in Kenya was beaten up, his legs broken by some miscreants and his house ransacked. Would that have happened to an Ambassador of a 'developed' nation? Or if it had happened, would that Nation have taken it lying down? Can we go freely around the world as some of the 'developed' world citizens can? Can a visit by a law enforcer, be it the Police, IT, ED, DRI or such agency, be met with the quizzical bemused genuine expression that an honest, law abiding and fearless ( of the agencies) citizen of the 'developed' world exhibits? Can we do this that they can ? Can we do that that they do? Oh Yes. I have suffered. And hoped. And yearned. For a better India.

The demonetisation move may have created hardship, may have disrupted trade, may have brought down the GDP (this year) by a fraction, may have been poorly implemented, may have had other less laudable and vested (end) interests, etc etc. BUT, in the final analysis, at least in my mind, it is a good move. And this would not be the only step. Other moves would follow.
Since he too hopes for a better India.

Let us keep at least an open mind and support the move. For a better future. It cannot be worse than what we have now.
Sorry if i have sounded mushy, but wanted to give a perspective of what the average Indian feels.

[ritz3645]

Originally Posted by sachinpk

economy.

Originally Posted by navin

It

Thanks Sachin & Navin.

Update of my Experience in last few days in Hyd.

Yesterday I saw some people depositing old 500/1000 note at an ATM deposit machine. Didn't ask or comment them.

Today went to a Petrol Pump seeking change of new 2K, last time on 11/11/16 eve the same person happily handed me 40 nos of Rs 50 notes seamlessly but not this time.
So went to another one and inquired and they said they can give change in old 500/1000 note, I left secure with my new 2K note.

I spent 750/- in a very small shop with the same 2K note and the person gave me back 1250 INR cash.

[nicedude]

Once when i was in Kenya, our Ambassador Of India in Kenya was beaten up, his legs broken by some miscreants and his house ransacked.

Ever heard about Benghazi. Im sure there was a reason for "Parkalam" . All of us went through it . Just that we arent so bitter about it now . Being deprived does show up sometime .life does'nt have to go back to childhood always .

[FrozeninTime]

Originally Posted by earthian

I have been quietly reading the posts in this thread since the past 4-5 days,
Yes, there have been quite a few comments...

Many students suffer because of unjust reservation. Most of these seats are grabbed by quite well-off reserved class. Yet no one battles an eye lid. Yes rules are there for creamy layer but I have seen how it is bypassed. I disagree with you that there are any so called middle class values. Middle class have been the biggest manipulator of a sound system. Ask any middle class student in Delhi university what they want to become the answer is IAS as it commands respect not due to good deeds these officers do but the way they yield authority without being elected
Heck even my cousin left high paying corporate job for civil service as it had more power and well you get easy money. This breeds corruption in society and end result is black money.

Also my problem is not with demonetization per se but the way government is trying to control my money.
I will do whatever I want with my money for which I have paid taxes. Government has no business to direct me put money in bank account as it is legitimately earned. What worries me is that If I am not in same wavelength with this Government policies people start branding people like me who have different take as anti national and start comparing sacrifice of Indian soldiers. Strange it may sound no one cared about soldier at border till demonetization.

This Government can't catch real thieves but will try to squander my money in harp of fighting corruption. Then thump their chest how it has given rich people sleepless nights. Sorry rich are having sound sleep. Its only daily wager or middle class who have cut expenses. They stand in queue. The rich like Bollywood stars and corporates are enjoying abroad. They are enjoying because they know ultimately the poor is going to finance them through banks and bail them out. If anything goes wrong these fellows will say recession has occurred I didn't forecast it so made wrong investment. But ultimately NPA wills start pile up and first casualty will be poor and middle class who will be denied access. This has happened in Greece and Cyprus but no one cares as it hasn't occurred here. History has been kind to us but we never learn.

If government is interested to fight corruption then it should start from itself. Firstly instead of expanding bureaucracy it should trim it and curtail its powers. Appoint Lok Pal which this Government is just not appointing. Bring Political parties under ambit of RTI starting from ruling party. Judges should be selected just like they do in West. It keeps tab on judicial corruption. If government is serious it should have made public the list of people who laundered money to abroad. I would been happy had government done these things.

[ecenandu]

Originally Posted by FrozeninTime

Many students suffer because of unjust reservation.

I agree with most of your points, the demonetization exercise was not the most efficient way to weed out the black money out of our system. As long as the our tax money is ill managed by our government, people will find loopholes and avoid paying taxes.

Regarding reservation, I know this is OT but since you mentioned it, I thought I should respond. There are lot of documentaries on the caste based discrimination still prevalent in our society, you can see the subtle discrimination if you look closely, marriages not so subtle here, for example. Try watching those, it might change your perspective. Sometimes we fail to see the bigger picture, or to look at it from a different angle.

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by FrozeninTime

.....

Could not have said it better. My disillusion with the so called middle class made me leave the country for good. The same middle class which is miffed when no one works at the government offices and yet want the same job for their child because the job is permanent and you do not have to work. We started with a value system when we got independence and it has only went downhill ever since.

[sgiitk]

Seems that the Aakrosh is gone from the Aakrosh Diwas. As predicted it is turning out to be a damp squib. From what my wife saw yesterday, many shops are displaying 'open on the 28th' banners in some form or the other.

I also hear that the 500 rupee note is finally reaching ATMs and banks. So this will totally take the devil out of the frenzy. Obviously, if 85% of currency is taken out, then remonetization (to say 30% or so) will take time.

There is a rumor being spread, that the 2000 note will be withdrawn soon. Apparently a ruling party MP also said so. I personally do not think so, but rumors have a habit of picking up speed of their own.

[msdivy]

Originally Posted by Nissan1180

Meanwhile, a friend's dad bought a flat recently and the builder wanted 20% of the amount in black-he was willing to accept only new notes which added to his misery.

Strange times - people want to go cash-less for petty payments, like even for buying Rs 7 tea. But black money has to in cash & new notes

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

Source: http://www.indiatimes.com/news/india...ts-266248.html

Great initiative. Instead of claiming black money as cause for demonetization, if the Govt had focussed on building cash-less infrastructure, then it would be more beneficial to the country. But that won't create the sensation, isn't it

Originally Posted by sgiitk

Seems that the Aakrosh is gone from the Aakrosh Diwas.

Even the opposition jumped the gun. They could have waited atleast till March 2017 to see the fruits of demonetization. Right now people are still high on idea of snatching illegal cash from rich folks.

There is a rumor being spread, that the 2000 note will be withdrawn soon. Apparently a ruling party MP also said so. I personally do not think so, but rumors have a habit of picking up speed of their own.

That would be a wasteful exercise. They could as well printed 100s instead of 2000s.

[earthian]

Originally Posted by nicedude

Ever heard about Benghazi.

The example i quoted was not a terrorist attack. Rather it was the work of a small time gang who attacked soft targets. The analogy is that we are considered to be soft targets.
Here is a quote from the newspaper of this incident:
In the case of Indian High Commissioner T. P. Sreenivasan, an armed gang bored a hole through a solid masonry wall to gain access to his home. Then, despite 24-hour guards, the gangsters broke through locks and bars and entered the envoy's home, beating him and his wife senseless and plundering the house.

Im sure there was a reason for "Parkalam" . All of us went through it . Just that we arent so bitter about it now . Being deprived does show up sometime .life does'nt have to go back to childhood always .

i am unable to comprehend what you are getting at? I am not bitter at all, if that is what you are insinuating. Please go through my post again. I was not deprived, and certainly cannot claim to be deprived now. Yes, i am deprived of a good society, peaceful coexistence, good environment...

Please read the post in its entirety and get the essence of the argument.

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

My disillusion with the so called middle class made me leave the country for good.

Kindly elaborate.

Originally Posted by frozenintime

..

No Sir, i am from Gujarat. And luckily did not have to endure the unfair policies of some Governments as far as education is concerned.

Middle class have been the biggest manipulator of a sound system. Ask any middle class student in Delhi university what they want to become the answer is IAS as it commands respect not due to good deeds these officers do but the way they yield authority without being elected
Heck even my cousin left high paying corporate job for civil service as it had more power and well you get easy money. This breeds corruption in society and end result is black money.

You are in fact supporting what i have said. After being exposed to such a (rotten) system since 3-4 decades, our youth feel that this is the only way, the only system for survival for coming up in life.

Also m y problem is not with demonetization per se but the way government is trying to control my money.
I will do whatever I want with my money for which I have paid taxes. Government has no business to direct me put money in bank account as it is legitimately earned.

Where did that come from?

[sachinpk]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

Seems that the Aakrosh is gone from the Aakrosh Diwas. As predicted it is turning out to be a damp squib. From what my wife saw yesterday, many shops are displaying 'open on the 28th' banners in some form or the other.

Agreed. In my part of Bangalore, it is life as usual. Looks like the only place where the harthal/bandh is working is Kerala. And that is one place even if a group of monkeys call for harthal/bandh; it works!!

From what I could make out (after scanning pages of news papers, social media etc.); the real common man still has immense faith in the Prime Minister (perhaps more than his party). And that is why there are no major riots or law & order problems. The faith that he will walk the talk makes people suffer the hardships.

Now, at the end of this if there are some big-wig arrests, reports about the black money getting seized, a few business houses going kaput, this would make the common man happy.

I also hear that the 500 rupee note is finally reaching ATMs and banks. So this will totally take the devil out of the frenzy. Obviously, if 85% of currency is taken out, then remonetization (to say 30% or so) will take time.

The government needs to plan for the Dec 1st time line. That is salary time, and even folks who do not generally go to ATM would have to make a visit. It may be a good idea to kind of control the flow of Rs.100 and Rs.500s until then, and kind of open the tap on December 1st.

Originally Posted by msdivy

Even the opposition jumped the gun. They could have waited atleast till March 2017 to see the fruits of demonetization. Right now people are still high on idea of snatching illegal cash from rich folks.

The opposition has been clearly exposed as a bunch of jokers, whose only aim is to oppose any thing and every thing. The fact that they don't have any uniform strategy against the demonitisation has made things even more complex. Without the opposition coming up with an alternate strategy, and using that to prove the government is at fault; no one is going to believe in this tantrum throwing stuff like Aakrosh Diwas.