[mayank0782]

Does brain creates consciousness or is the brain a result of consciousness ?

I, like everyone else, was always interested in knowing what happens after we die ? A more methodical approach towards this question led me to the consciousness vs brain debate. Whatever experiences we have, are those a result of neuro-chemical reactions in the brain or is it the other way around that consciousness causes such reactions in the brain ?

I believe, there has to be something other than our brain which drives all this, the experiences we have, the sense of reality we have and the ability to connect different dots to create an image of existence of matter. In simpler terms, there has to be something outside matter which sees and overlooks all the matter in the universe. That said, is this "something" mapped to each and every individual brain/body or is it one single entity ?

There are a lot of articles over the internet which talk about NDEs (Near death experiences) where people could see doctors/medical staff working on their bodies while they experienced it outside the body which opens up an all new topic of discussion that is there anything like an out of body experience ?

Although a very complex topic which science still has a lot to research upon, still some questions keep looming around -

- Is consciousness non physical(can't be measured like matter) and if that is so does science or will science ever believe in it ?

- What creates this consciousness and what happens to it when we die ?

- Does consciousness need a body and a brain ?

[deehunk]

Originally Posted by mayank0782

Does brain creates consciousness or is the brain a result of consciousness ?

- Is consciousness non physical(can't be measured like matter) and if that is so does science or will science ever believe in it ?

- What creates this consciousness and what happens to it when we die ?

- Does consciousness need a body and a brain ?

This is a good thread and thanks for creating one, will share some of my personal experience. One of my grandfather passed away in 1983, he was a Doctor himself and never visited any Doctor or Hospital. He asked my father to stop all medications a week before his death, he spoke about his probable death very soon. During last week of December 2010, my other grandfather stopped taking food 4 days before his death. When I visited his place he was snoring while speaking, he too felt his death was near and died on Jan 3rd, 2011. The last incident happened in 2015, there is a belief when a person is on death bed and if you change the direction of bed with head on the South side, the person will die. This did happen in front of our eyes. What I have heard or seen is there is some last minute communication between eyes and brain before death. There are still lot of things which Science has not seen, but few things are beyond the reach of science. There was one head replacement surgery scheduled in 2018, if it ever happens, it can reveal more facts.

[Nav-i-gator]

Everything is linked to the brain. Our personality, our interactions, our perceptions, our responses, even our consciousness, is nothing but processes and reactions taking place inside the brain.
Brain is a powerful processing centre. It can create things, perceptions and sense when it is not there actually. What we see is not what our eyes actually receive as input. We can "feel" the smell of food (we call it craving) when it is not there. We can listen to sounds in silence, or a specific sound in utter chaos (there is a constant mild whistling sound in our "brain", for example, which is more "audible" when you are exhausted or sleep-deprived).

Brain controls the body. It's like an alien having taken control of the body. Our body cannot do anything on it's own. Perhaps, except for the heartbeat, nothing in our body is autonomous. Everything works to keep the brain alive and running, though the body is capable of "living" without brain. A person is presumed dead if the brain stops working, even though we can "technically" keep the body alive on a ventilator for a much longer time. But with a dead brain, the alive body is without any personality, any intelligence. Our body, which does all the things that keep us alive, can't keep itself alive without the brain.

Our consciousness is the manifestation of our brains evolving over the "intelligence threshold". The limit where the brain starts to become aware of itself, start connecting the dots (called logic) beyond the "sense and respond" dumbness necessary to keep itself alive. It's natural evolution, development of sentience.

As much as our religious beliefs make us believe, there is no hand of god in this. Had we (humans) been the only living beings on earth, I would have believed in us being god's creation. But we can see the evolutionary evidences all around us. In different animals, in different breeds, everywhere there are signs of evolution linked to brain. I am pretty sure (if medical science make it possible someday), we transplant a buffalo's brain onto a human body and we would have a human looking dumb body, as dumb as the buffalo (and vice versa).

[mayank0782]

Originally Posted by Nav-i-gator

Everything is linked to the brain. Our personality, our interactions, our perceptions, our responses, even our consciousness, is nothing but processes and reactions taking place inside the brain..

Exactly, what drives these is the question. How is the brain behaving in a certain way and how are the reactions taking place ? If brain is a powerful processing unit, how was the logic designed and there should be something out of the brain governing it.

[Nav-i-gator]

Originally Posted by mayank0782

Exactly, what drives these is the question. How is the brain behaving in a certain way and how are the reactions taking place ? If brain is a powerful processing unit, how was the logic designed and there should be something out of the brain governing it.

As I said, gaining consciousness is evolutionary step. Quoting a dialogue from movie I Robot:

Dr. Alfred Lanning: [voiceover] There have always been ghosts in the machine. Random segments of code, that have grouped together to form unexpected protocols. Unanticipated, these free radicals engender questions of free will, creativity, and even the nature of what we might call the soul. Why is it that when some robots are left in darkness, they will seek out the light? Why is it that when robots are stored in an empty space, they will group together, rather than stand alone? How do we explain this behavior? Random segments of code? Or is it something more? When does a perceptual schematic become consciousness? When does a difference engine become the search for truth? When does a personality simulation become the bitter mote... of a soul?

Though coming from a Sci-Fi movie (based on a Sci-fi novel), this does raise credible point on sentience/self-awareness/consciousness being a natural step in evolution of intelligent life. The underlined part is particularly interesting, isn't it?

[aadya]

First of all, we should leave god and religion out of this discussion - it created passionate quarrels with no result, as neither groups are going to debate with open mind of accepting the possibility that the other might be right.

Consciousness and Brain(intelligence) are two different things entirely. I will try to explain it in simple terms.
Intelligence - present in all animals with developed neuronal system - any animal which can sense pain and joy and express it are intelligent. Intelligence when advanced can develop clever animals - like Lions laying trap and hunting in groups, Dogs, Dolphins and Elephants showing loyalty to masters, almost all animals protecting there offspring from predators/enemies.
Consciousness with present evidence is possible only to human beings. Differentiating Good and bad is because of the consciousness. Some animals like Dogs, Elephants ets gain some consciousness by imitating human behaviour in the same circumstances. Dogs barking at persons who are dressed shabbily, its out of the commonality that usually they are looking at people who are dressed acceptably.
Consciousness - Normal human being, When consciousness impaired by disease(psychosis), religion, lust, greed then we become mad/fanatic/psychopath etc., When intelligence is also impaired by disease, age we become brain dead. When below intelligence functions like controlling the bodily functions are impaired we are completely dead.

[motorsan]

"Consciousness Explained" is a book by philosopher Daniel C Dennet, which explains the phenomenon of consciousness beautifully. He explains how interactions in our brain alone can make us conscious. Even if you may not agree with his view point, it is a worthwhile read.

[alpha1]

* Let me start by presuming that you meant SELF consciousness when you wrote consciousness. There is a huge difference between the two.

So lets talk about other creatures ... plants, do they have brain. Not really.
Do they have consciousness? Questionable - only the the extent of programmed responses to stimuli.

Animals. They have brain. They have some sort of consciousness, but do they have self consciousness? Mostly no. Some apes and other "higher" intelligent creature do shows hints of having it.

Humans. Have brain, have consciousness and have self consciousness.


Looks to be gradual evolutionary step, instead of any work of metaphysical mysticism here.

Originally Posted by mayank0782

Exactly, what drives these is the question. How is the brain behaving in a certain way and how are the reactions taking place ? If brain is a powerful processing unit, how was the logic designed and there should be something out of the brain governing it.

Not necessary.
You feel that way because you probably harbor a belief that there is something superior about intelligence and consciousness.
Why?
What makes us humans feel that we are more superior to a piece of rock that has survived billions of years of changing landscape of the earth/solar system/universe?

Now coming to the logic part and the intelligent design aspect: how can we ascertain that human beings or their predecessors have always been this intelligent and logical? We cannot. In the past, the ones that were not intelligent were systematically eliminated either by nature, or by predators or by other humans (happens even today).

So today majority of humans may appear to be intelligent but that does not mean we were always like this in the past.