[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

....inviting a women member to give her views on each official review and have that be a core part of the review....

We could do one better. Every ownership review where the better half is also a driver, should include their POV too. It would be interesting to know what each couple's likes/dislikes are in the exact same car, could throw up some great insight.

P.S. Actually, why restrict that to car reviews? It's surely possible to include the significant other's POV into travelogues and other assorted write-ups. Adds perspective, and will probably attract a larger variety of audience.

I remember reading through Sam's Yetiblogs, and the ones where Jenny chimed in with her take on the topic of discussion, almost always added a different take and extra humor to the situation.

[msbehave]

I think there might be a reason not one woman on TBHP has responded thus far. Rather than relaxed membership norms, there's a lot of "lady driver" bias I've read on multiple threads as well as irritation (personally) as being seen as sister/wife/mother. "Bro culture" & language following from that too. I thought at least 10 times before writing on this thread.


Some posts have spoken of the "natural" order of things. Sex and gender (a social construct) are two different things - most boys are socialised into liking cars, wrestling, its a boy thing. Masculinity and femininity are both heavily constructed to the detriment of both the genders unfortunately.

Some posts have spoken about intersectionality which is a great thing to get behind. I'm not going to further deconstruct either the concept of gender or the idea that women are equal simply because I dont think I can or want to in this space. (In a country where girls are killed before being born this is a moot point).

Anyway, this was a short foray into this thread - the space in itself can get uncomfortable and is not inclusive - I had no problems getting membership. That is not where the problem lies.

[amitoj]

Originally Posted by msbehave

I think there might be a reason not one woman on TBHP has responded thus far. Rather than relaxed membership norms, there's a lot of "lady driver" bias I've read on multiple threads as well as irritation (personally) as being seen as sister/wife/mother. "Bro culture" & language following from that too. I thought at least 10 times before writing on this thread.

Thank you for this post, as it highlights where the real change needs to be made.
It's not in the rule of the forum or in some form of "encouragement for participation" but much deeper in the behavior and the mindset that has been ingrained into the male psyche.

[Ithaca]

The one greatest feature of this forum is that our individual handle keeps our identities anonymous.
Our sex, creed, religion, social strata is unknown to the vast majority of our members.
This allows for free transfer of ideas, suggestions, recommendations and opinions.
We are judged by the content of our post and not from the various labels we asbscribe to individually.
I hope this continues and allows the free exchange of ideas and information to continue as usual.
I believe there are quite a lot of lady members here - most of whom are anonymous and only known by their handles.
I wish more ladies become members of this forum but I hope the moderators do not dilute the standards of acceptance just based on the sex of the person applying for membership.
That is a slippery slope that cannot be undone once exceptions are made.

I hope my post does not disparage the intent of the initial post by member autobahnjpr.
I hope he sees my response in the spirit it was intended.

[roby_dk]

I really liked the idea where one female member should be there in an official review highlighting some points from there perspective as well. This can be quite useful and will make the review more interesting. We can present some good pointers to our family members especially females and can easily convince them over our choices.

[condor]

Nice idea, and we have had women join TBHP even 10 years back. Even in touch with some TBHP-ians outside the forum too. But if you are going to relax norms, or get referral memberships - how do you ensure that the case is genuine ? And what kind of matter / content do you wan to add that is predominantly automotive related yet directed towards women ?

[VKumar]

I know I may sound a bit harsh but there are two terms which have at times left me with a very bad taste in mouth:
1) Feminism
2) Gender diversity

Team-bhp is 'The Team-BHP' because it is unbiased, truthful and quality driven. There is absolutely no point of relaxation in membership, the damage can get beyond expectations. I respect women a lot, but I belong to the school of thought which says "get it if you deserve It". I had given multiple attempts in past for membership, there are guys who have done 15-20 attempts before they got their membership (I know someone who applies every month since last 2 years), won't a relaxation to women be an injustice to those guys who are sincerely trying hard to get one membership for themselves?

[Sawyer]

I certainly see the merit in having a female perspective on things like official car reviews, but because when we males buy cars, it is often as a means of transport for the entire family, so the audience for this female perspective will also be males and not females, for the very large part.

Even when one sees travelogues here, many of the photos and the words are about the car used and how it fared in the travels. Nothing wrong with that either.

But the relevant question for general membership here is - and I am not against any woman that wishes to be a member - is there a clamour from women to be members here? I think not - they could not be bothered about this forum. And it is true of automobile forums anywhere in the world. Diversity also means that women have different interests, and this lack of interest in membership in Team BHP is a result of that. They see this as another place for adult boys and their toys not worth wasting their time with, and who can blame them for thinking that way?

On the other hand they are very much present in forums that interest them, including those where both sexes are interested - like running as an example. Or books. But there is nothing sexist in recognising that the interests of the two sexes often do not converge and it is silly to try to do so artificially everywhere.

And whenever any woman does seek membership here, I am pretty sure that her being one does not come into play in the decision to grant one. Why do more? To satisfy them or is it to quieten our guilty consciences from other domains where we are a part - implicit and explicit - of the discrimination against them?

[FrozeninTime]

Originally Posted by autobahnjpr

Most of the contributors and viewers, I feel, are testosterone fed alpha kind who have a particular viewpoint of things and life in general.

Its good that women should participate in every field as equal but I dislike this preferential treatment. As a victim of this intentional societial bias towards male, certain words you have used is really hurtful and reeks of misandry.

Let us not make this forum into another political correctness forum. It will defeat whole purpose having unbiased opinion.

[GTO]

Guys,

Thanks for the great discussion, but this thread has run its course.

Just wanted to clarify that, for Team-BHP, a BHPian is a BHPian...irrespective of the person's sex, age, religion, nationality, colour, economic background etc.

Any new female members are welcome on the forum just as new male members are.