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Old 19th August 2018, 00:11   #76
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Originally Posted by bluevolt View Post
Being in IT industry since last 3 years and 8 months, I have seen only a handful of people over the age of 50 years still working in IT companies.

No matter if you plan or not, looks like people in the IT industry are forced to retire early due to the dynamic nature of the industry.

My first company had over 10,000 employees and my current company has over 4,000 employees! The majority, all are under 35 years old bracket. I may be wrong but I'm yet to meet a gentleman who is 50-60 years old and still working in an IT company.
Hey, I am in IT industry from age 43 and will complete 59 this year. I do see employees of my age, though we constitute around 1% of the total employees.

However, you are partly correct. I found it very difficult to get another job after I took VR in 2015 from my previous IT company. I discovered then that most IT companies shirk from hiring people in their 50s, regardless of your skills and their pressing needs. And this is only in India, not in western countries.

I have a neighbour who is around 49, who returned from a long IT stint in Singapore to take care of his ailing parents. He has not found any IT job for the past 2 years. On the other hand, i was lucky because my US Manager of my older company insisted on taking me to the newer company he joined.

Based on the above, I've been advising my younger colleagues to hold on to their jobs when they are over 45, and not to quit impulsively. Unless of course, they've saved enough money for early retirement.
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Old 19th August 2018, 08:07   #77
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Originally Posted by Yieldway17 View Post
I can't relate to people who want to work until their last breath. Well, it's not a surprise people are different.
......

and I'm pretty sure I can do this for next 30-40 years without missing anything meaningful for me.
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but you certainly need to be occupied by some work-like activity and limit your availability to family. Happy family is one where everyone is very busy. Unfortunate, but that's how it plays.
There is a beautiful novel Shikhari (The hunt) in Kannada written by Yeshwant Chittala (published in 1979) which is translated to English as well. It is a nice novel depicting the protagonist's struggle in the corporate world in Bombay, the office politics and more importantly the philosophy of life and its meaning. While the story deals with the employee who has been terminated as a result of corporate politics, the protagonist's struggle to deal with the void left by joblessness and how to deal with available time is noteworthy. The novel has a lot of references to existential philosophers like Camus and Erich Fromm.

A couple of excerpts from the book review:

Quote:
Why does this question, that doesn’t seem to bother millions of other living beings, constantly trouble me? Maybe it’s not because of my philosophical bent of mind, which I secretly take pride in, but because I have no zest for life. I think the very wellspring that energizes my being has run dry. Maybe it’s meaningless to search for the meaning of life. How can you search for something that doesn’t exist? This so-called ‘meaning’ is something we’ve invented. And then, how is creativity possible when there is no zest for life? How can the creative impulse spring in this arid desert?
Quote:
He found the wait unbearable. He became suddenly and acutely aware that he had nothing to do. He shuddered. The question of what to do with his time had never bothered him before. But now, empty hours stretched before him, directionless. He recalled reading in a book on psychology that one of the greatest problems the human mind finds difficult to grapple with is the structuring of time.
A blurb is available here.

Last edited by AltoLXI : 19th August 2018 at 08:15.
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Old 19th August 2018, 09:21   #78
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That's interesting and deeply philosophical. My comment is just to point out that your plans to spend more time with family and friends may not pan out well. I have a lot of flexibility in my work schedule and it's still not possible for me to spend significantly more time with family and friends because they got their own fixed schedules. I personally fully enjoy my extra free time and flexibility have no issues related to "what do I do with my free time" but an early learning has been that friends and family scene doesn't change much. I do make kids bunk school at times but looks like schools don't appreciate it. One of my future plans is to start a school with flexible schedule for individual students
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Old 19th August 2018, 10:48   #79
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Sir, I am sure many of us would like to understand how to go about point (b) that you mentioned above.
I have to state that I have also done this. I had an 'early' target of 2020 and by God's grace, could achieve it by 2017 itself. A key factor that worked for me is this: I had a decent plan that covers retirement, kids' education, etc. I continued to invest beyond what the plan suggested - basically move all excess cash to some kinds of mutual funds. Then investing becomes the default option rather than splurging excess cash. As an additional factor, I believe in the concept of a single corpus to fund all the goals rather than corpus tied to separate goals. IMHO, this helps to achieve a larger corpus.

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Originally Posted by vnabhi View Post
Hey, I am in IT industry from age 43 and will complete 59 this year. I do see employees of my age, though we constitute around 1% of the total employees.
...Based on the above, I've been advising my younger colleagues to hold on to their jobs when they are over 45, and not to quit impulsively. Unless of course, they've saved enough money for early retirement.
Very, very true.

The job market seems to almost disappear when you reach 50. If your current job is great and you feel passionate about it, then definitely keep to it.

Last edited by Gannu_1 : 19th August 2018 at 17:38. Reason: Back to back posts merged. Please use the multi-quote option (QUOTE+) while quoting and responding to multiple posts. Thanks.
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Old 19th August 2018, 11:39   #80
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I retired end 2015 and I was 48 then.

I had the idea and started planning since 2008, when I had a well paying overseas assignment with good savings. This and me other savings and investments, no debt and an apartment (with loan paid-up) helped make my decision easy.

Actual implementation was in two steps. First I went freelance in 2011 and did some contract based work with longish breaks between assignments, testing some aspects : cash flow, will I get bored, will "things I wanted to do but never found time" really keep me happy over longer time?, will my spouse will get fed up with my continuous and nagging presence? etc.
Finally I called it a day November 2015. I bought my Punto in September 2016.

Of course, I did a bit of number crunching - made a spread sheet (considering inflation, taxation, contingencies, major financial responsibilities, etc).

I am happy that I took the plunge but I have sent out messages that I would be available for short term assignments, if required, and have been receiving some enquiries.

Ideally I would like to work for part of the year (say 6 months) and use the rest of the time for pursuing non-professional goals.

Last edited by SKavuri : 19th August 2018 at 11:43.
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Old 19th August 2018, 12:19   #81
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I retired end 2015 and I was 48 then.

Ideally I would like to work for part of the year (say 6 months) and use the rest of the time for pursuing non-professional goals.
Incredibly useful insight, thank you sir! A few questions for you if you don't mind:
  • How easy and fulfilling was the freelancing, compared to regular work? Both in terms of financial and personal satisfaction?
  • Do you miss a workplace, peergroup, and the societal validation of being employed in the mainstream sense?
  • If you could go back in time, would you retire from the traditional, mainstream workforce earlier or later than you did?

Personally, I find the number-crunching the easy part. What I struggle to answer is, will I be happy if I take the leap? I find that very difficult to answer.
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Old 19th August 2018, 16:33   #82
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Default Re: The Early Retirement Thread

I think the thread should have been titled "Early retirement and your second innings". Most of us I believe are not really thinking of early retirement in the traditional sense but a shift of gears from from a full throttle rat race to a slightly slower but still very responsible path where we contribute to society, economy and our own lives but in a different way. I did that at age 58 when I sold off my business and very deliberately planned a track change to working on big social impact projects as a volunteer. Some take-aways for others to consider:

# Money is not important. Say that and believe that only after you have earned and saved enough. Don't let anyone kid you on this. Changing downwards to a lower standard of living is inimical to self-confidence. Without the support of your job/business, title, position it is your standard of living that plays a significant role in how society determines who you are.

#Plan well in advance. After you've retired many will meet you once for old times sake but fewer will do so the third time. So whatever it is you plan to do prepare and sign up for it while you are still on the chair.

# Be mentally prepared for your own inner challenges and anguish as you relinquish your title and chair and become Mr. Nobody. If you hold a senior position or worse are a member of the CXO fraternity it is all the more harder. My exit was voluntary and thoroughly planned and yet it took me 4 months to fully come to terms that I am now an individual contributor operating from my study table and not the boss of XXXX numbers of employees.

# Depending on what your professional life was take up a Hi-EQ, Lo-Time, Hi-status role as an advisor or independent director. I did. I don't even want to pretend that societal assurance is unimportant.

#And finally for all you men on this journey make sure physical-time space demarcation at home with your wife is quietly sorted out. The home is her space and whether she has her own career or is a home maker you have not been around for 25 years from 8AM to 7PM or so. And your spouse, your maids and your neighbours aint used to seeing you lounging on that sofa. Be very careful.

#And finally make sure you have a reason to get up each morning and shave.

We are fortunate we can even think of a second innings. A generation back economic boundaries and fewer opportunities and attitude to towards those above 60 made this much more challenging. Best of luck. 75th birthday here I come.
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Old 19th August 2018, 18:24   #83
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# Be mentally prepared for your own inner challenges and anguish as you relinquish your title and chair and become Mr. Nobody. If you hold a senior position or worse are a member of the CXO fraternity it is all the more harder. My exit was voluntary and thoroughly planned and yet it took me 4 months to fully come to terms that I am now an individual contributor operating from my study table and not the boss of XXXX numbers of employees.

# Depending on what your professional life was take up a Hi-EQ, Lo-Time, Hi-status role as an advisor or independent director. I did. I don't even want to pretend that societal assurance is unimportant.

#And finally for all you men on this journey make sure physical-time space demarcation at home with your wife is quietly sorted out. The home is her space and whether she has her own career or is a home maker you have not been around for 25 years from 8AM to 7PM or so. And your spouse, your maids and your neighbours aint used to seeing you lounging on that sofa. Be very careful.

.
Very well summarized, Sir. Even for me, when I quit a senior level post in a PSU at age 43, I was mentally prepared for being an individual contributor, with nobody reporting to me. This advance knowledge helped me adjust. Else it would have been a difficult transition, moving from a position where I had 3 direct reports and 40 indirect reports. Some of my batchmates, who are retiring now as CMDs or Directors of PSUs will find the going tough. They have forgotten to drive a car also!

I agree with you on the money part, but for most of us, adjusting to a lower level of income is inevitable.

I also agree regarding doing something after retirement. My wife used found it difficult to adjust to my continuous presence at home for the year that I was relaxing. She was happy when I started some training assignments on freelance basis, till I moved to a regular job.

My brother, who retired 2 years ago said that he got inputs from his seniors:

First three months, you will enjoy not having to go to work. Next three, you will feel guilty of not earning and having to adjust to a lower level of income.
After 3 more months, you don't give it a damn, and start cutting your coat according to your cloth!
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Old 20th August 2018, 03:52   #84
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Very interesting topic and valuable inputs from our members.

I thought of sharing a story of one of my friends who retired in his early forties. He has been planning for a while and he generated a regular income stream in the form of dividends from direct equities, mutual funds etc. Also, he had a sizable asset and a loan free home when taking retirement. He is a very passionate blogger so he is spending time blogging now.

Another point is his wife was unable to take a job due to some constraints. After his retirement, she took up a job which matches her career aspirations.

Some tips from him.

1. Involve everyone in your family while planning retirement.
2. Plan how your regular office hours will be spent by not interfering with others schedules.
3. Number crunching is very very important. The financial figures will be different for each individual.
4. Always plan for the worst.
5. Try to test the weather by choosing part-time, contract jobs etc
6. Don't jump into major investments like shops, business etc. in the initial period. Especially if you are an NRI.
7. If you plan to start a business, start that at least 2-3 years before the actual retirement. So that the transition will be smooth.
8. Though the family bond will be very strong, at some point family members may ask why don't you go to work? (because you will be kept on asking unusual questions :-))

Good luck with early retirement..!
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Old 20th August 2018, 07:54   #85
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8. Though the family bond will be very strong, at some point family members may ask why don't you go to work? (because you will be kept on asking unusual questions :-))
Indeed. It might be easy to convince one's close relatives. But the distant ones would always be 'more'worried' about you not having a job. Neighbours would also be looking at you as if something has gone terribly wrong with you. I have heard small kids whispering to each other 'Uncle ki naukri chali gayi'. Certainly they have overheard their parents talking on the topic.
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Old 20th August 2018, 08:23   #86
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I am 41,I have 17 years of experience in IT industry,and I feel that I can no more cope up with the increasing demands and risks(I have been handed pink slip once)of this industry.Having said that,going by the current trends,I feel 3 types of industry will survive in the long run:
1.Food industry(people will eat,no matter what)
2.Medicine(health hazards will increase each day)
3.Education.
I want to retire,and I am working towards that,currently I have opened 2 restaurants in Bangalore,once I see the returns and reach break-even,I might bid good-bye to IT.
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Old 20th August 2018, 12:58   #87
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Based on the above, I've been advising my younger colleagues to hold on to their jobs when they are over 45, and not to quit impulsively. Unless of course, they've saved enough money for early retirement.
Thanks that is a sensible advice for impulsive person like me. Threw up jobs just like that twice and got away with that. Will be careful now
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Old 20th August 2018, 14:05   #88
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I need to point out a simple flaw in your plan which would destroy your wealth quickly!
- Don't put it in FD. If you put it in FD, your returns just match inflation levels. So in other words, your 5 crore would stay at 5 crores' equivalent value in future only if none of it is used.
. . .
Your math is precise but not the inference. Someone with 5 Crores corpus can dump the entire money in GOI 7.75% Taxable bond, generate Rs. 38.75 lakhs p.a., pay the taxes promptly, invest 20% of the returns and live a comfortable life perpetually.
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Old 20th August 2018, 14:54   #89
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Incredibly useful insight, thank you sir! A few questions for you if you don't mind:
  • How easy and fulfilling was the freelancing, compared to regular work? Both in terms of financial and personal satisfaction?
  • Do you miss a workplace, peergroup, and the societal validation of being employed in the mainstream sense?
  • If you could go back in time, would you retire from the traditional, mainstream workforce earlier or later than you did?

Personally, I find the number-crunching the easy part. What I struggle to answer is, will I be happy if I take the leap? I find that very difficult to answer.
Thank you and here is my answer.
1. I did contract based work mostly outside India and found both financial and personal satisfaction having met my expectations. The industry was doing well at that time so it was not a surprise. But then the industry went down and now there are hardly any assignments come by for freelancers. I understand even permanent employees are struggling to keep their jobs.

Then I responded to some contract based work in India and it was clear that such assignments are not matured enough in India. The assumption here is that one is a freelancer because he could not get a job. So far I have not taken up any assignments in India.


2. I did not miss the work place or peer group at all. But yes, I did miss the societal validation of being employed (nicely put, by the way!) - I had to keep "justifying" why I am not employed full time. The underlying assumption by everyone was that I got laid off. After a while I stopped caring but my spouse keeps feeling awkward in answering this question.

3. I would have liked to retire earlier and plan my freelance profession much better. I would have made by domain a bit wider , made more contacts, made better investment decisions, etc.

I fully agree the number crunching is the easier part. For me, I had other interests which I knew would keep me happy so I took the plunge. This is purely a personal decision and if one's profession is keeping one happy, it is pointless to change it.

Last edited by SKavuri : 20th August 2018 at 15:00.
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Old 20th August 2018, 21:53   #90
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Originally Posted by V.Narayan View Post
Some take-aways for others to consider:
...
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Originally Posted by SKavuri View Post
Thank you and here is my answer.
...
Thank you, both of you! Those are insightful pieces of wisdom!
(This topic needs a Thank button )
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