[dgoyle]

Regrettably, there is a lot of confusion as regards cylinder specifications in our country as we are not consistently using parameters as specified by Indian Standards, which in themselves are silent on many issues, especially nomenclature, capacities. I have prepared a table after browsing through a plethora of material that you all may find useful.



As also pointed out and exemplified by De-Veer there is a general tendency to refer to non-standard and anecdotal sources for information.
The standards governing in India as regards Medical gases and allied equipment are (not an exhaustive list at that as there are several components)
1. Medical Gas Pipeline System IS 7396-1:2007;
2. Terminal Units for Medical Pipeline systems IS 9170-1: 2008
3. Pressure Regulators for Use with Medical Gases IS 10524-2: 2005
4. Identification colours, Capacity and other marking on the cylinder: Gas Cylinder Rules, 2004; under Explosives Act, 1884 (4 of 1884)
5. Refillable seamless Steel gas Cylinders - Specifications IS 7285 part 1&2): 2004

Unfortunately in India, we do not have a system as prevalent in some other countries, where there is uniformity across the nation. This improves the standardization of imports and not to the discretion and judgement of importers.

[motorworks]

Hi All

A friend of mine works for a charitable organisation and is trying to procure oxygen concentrators to provide to the needy. The issue as we all know, is that the current supply is far lower than the demand and hence he is not sure where to procure and at what cost to procure. He is looking for contacts in the Bangalore / Chennai area, any leads would be really helpful.

[balenoed_]

Just an open question guys:

Is it something practically possible to build an oxygen concentrator at home? Is there a bottle neck to do so? Say, by using a small start up team who know a thing or two about how stuffs works. I didn't mean entirely make at home. Say if we can have access to some electronics/electrical lab set up as well. Anyone knows the technical architecture of it?

Disclaimer: This is not for any profit making, but to just help ourselves.

[mvadg]

Originally Posted by balenoed_

Just an open question guys:

Is it something practically possible to build an oxygen concentrator at home?...

Just a thought - wouldn't it be easier to generate oxygen from water using electrolysis?

[irdevanand]

Now you can order OXYGEN CONCENTRATOR from your OLA APP. https://www.indiatoday.in/technology...786-2021-05-10

Ola Foundation that happens to be the philanthropic arm of Ola has announced its partnership with GiveIndia to provide consumers with free oxygen concentrators that will be available soon through the Ola mobile app. The said service will start rolling out in Bangalore this week with an initial set of 500 oxygen concentrators. Ola and GiveIndia said in a statement that they will be scaling up the number across the country with up to 10,000 units of concentrators in the coming weeks. The customers will be able to log into the Ola app and request an oxygen concentrator by providing a few basic details.

[irdevanand]

Originally Posted by motorworks

Hi All

A friend of mine works for a charitable organisation and is trying to procure oxygen concentrators to provide to the needy. The issue as we all know, is that the current supply is far lower than the demand and hence he is not sure where to procure and at what cost to procure. He is looking for contacts in the Bangalore / Chennai area, any leads would be really helpful.

I have called every dealer in indiamart for Oxygen Concentrator in the chennai region. Whoever i was able to contact could only give me chinese models which had the purity vs flow problem as mentioned by the doc in the thread above. For 10LPM only NIDEK was possible but no one had nidek.

I think the best way to handle oxygen concentrator is what OLA has done. Book via the OLA app, use it for 5 -10 days, then give it back for re-use. I wish OLA great success. If they can get their hands on the right set of oxygen concentrators it will be a huge benefit to people in need.

[irdevanand]

Spoke to a chennai dealer today and got details about two models. Both are them are not fit for Covid. Sharing here so that others can also be aware of the specs when they come across these models.

MODEL 1 - DEEDAKJ DE-1A @ 1.2 lakhs
Brand name : DEEDAK J
Model number : DE-1A
Price : 1.2 Lakhs
LPM : Upto 7 LPM
Oxygen Concentration : 90% at 1LPM
Weight : 6KG
Fit for covid : No. For covid we need minimum 93% at 5LPM
Pics of the device attached below











MODEL 2 - XNUO @ 1.4 lakhs
Brand name : XNUO
Price : 1.4 Lakhs
LPM : Upto 9 LPM
Weight : Not sure
Oxygen Concentration : 90% at 2LPM, 45% at 9LPM
Fit for covid : No. For covid we need minimum 93% at 5LPM
Pics of the device attached below


95% purity/concentration is possible only at 2LPM


The below two screens will tell the O2 purity/concentration is at 45% when LPM is at 9. Took screenshots from the video shared by the dealer over whatsapp.




ps- Looking at the incident in Andra makes me feel we should either have a spare cylinder or have one such machine at our hand for safety even if we get hospitalised. Whoever had spare cylinder survived that incident. The oxygen truck from chennai sriperambudhur got delayed by 2 hours resulting in that incident. I hope they DONT arrest the truck driver or do something like that. Usually the last guy in the line gets axed in our country.

Having a concentrator seems like a good bet. But finding the right product like Nidek which can give 10LPM at 93% purity is getting very rare. If anyone comes across the right device please share here.

Regards
Dev

[hothatchaway]

Any feedback on how the initiative by Ola is panning out in Bangalore? Are they planning to roll it out in other cities?

[carthick1000]

Request moderators to give more exposure to this thread as it might help more people to choose the right concentrator.

Thanks in order to the 3 most important posts (which I quoted here) in this thread. Heartfelt Thanks

• lemedico (The technical doctor!) for the clarity about the requirements on choosing
• irdevanand for the ones to avoid (and most importantly the pics which measured low concentration at maximum flow rates)
• dgoyle for size chart of cylinders. It was very useful in assessing how much oxygen is left until we need to arrange for new.

The last few days have been a roller coaster ride as my father-in-law got admitted to a hospital in Madurai need of oxygen support. The hospital too was arranging cylinders on a day-to-day basis and the situation seemed very dire 2 days ago. That's when I browsed this thread one more time to find the right details and decided to get an oxygen concentrator (if oxygen situation in the hospital becomes too bad) for my father-in-law.

He was needing 6LPM to maintain his SpO2 concentration at ~90%. As he removes mask for few minutes, his Sp02 level dropped to ~50%. This basically meant that he can make use of (RIGHT!) oxygen concentrator instead of depending on cylinders, if at all the hospital runs out of supply or not able to get supply on time. Based on the collective inputs from this thread, I have spoken to a lot of dealers and tech support and I was disappointed that more than 60% of medical suppliers I spoke do not know this difference. Some of them were suggesting the oxygen concentrators used for Sleep apnea and COPD conditions, which is clearly not usable. So I started digging deeply and found a brand from Chennai, which matched all the specs mentioned by lemedico (You should know you are a life saver! ). Ordered 2 nos. of 5LPM and a cousin of mine transported it from Chennai to Madurai and reached yesterday morning. The reason to 2 get 2 nos. of 5LPM is because 10LPM is literally not available anywhere and this particular brand had only 5LPM in stock. The biomedical engineer there showed it is possible to supply upto 10LPM with a Y-connector.

From yesterday afternoon, my father-in-law is getting 6LPM oxygen from these 2 oxygen concentrators and 1 type D cylinder is in standby for his emergency support, if the machine fails. I am actually very happy that the hospital situation has improved now and because of the 6LPM saved for 1 patient, the hospital can use my father-in-law's quota to someone else. No words to explain the peace of mind to my wife's family.

Originally Posted by irdevanand

Having a concentrator seems like a good bet. But finding the right product like Nidek which can give 10LPM at 93% purity is getting very rare. If anyone comes across the right device please share here.

This is the one I bought. https://entrusted.in/buy-online/ols/...uilt-nebulizer

It was on stock until yesterday and it seems to be over now unfortunatley. But they also bringing quite a lot of stock in. Also check their website frequently, as they are very professional in transactions, maintaining their stock status online and supplying pan India through courier. Best is to whatsapp than to call. They also seem to have provided to hospitals, railways etc. I am in no way related to them. My need for how to use 2nos. of 5LPM concentrators to supply 10LPM landed me in their youtube video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiC10FhMb9o

Their channel has very useful instruction videos of almost all their machines:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCu1...Vkt81NjJuaFClw

We bought 2 units and both of them measured 94.4% concentration at maximum flow rate:

Originally Posted by lemedico

Please do not only see the output flow of an oxygen concentrator like 5 lpm, 10 lpm or so on. The most important thing is to make sure you get 90% oxygen at the highest flow level.

For a small family with no senior citizens, a 5 lpm at 90% oxygen concentration should be adequate.

For 2 senior citizens or for a big family 10 lpm at 90% oxygen concentration should be good enough as it can support 2 patients at once if the need arises.

Please read the specifications properly, and if required please ask your supplier to show you the oxygen output on an oxygen analyzer at the higher flow rate of 5 lpm or 10 lpm.

...
3. Regarding the pricing, in today's Times of India(8th May 2021), Phillips India has released a statement clarifying they are not responsible for the various other no-brand devices being sold under their false name. And also the cost of their device is around the MRP of Rs. 68,000.

4. I am a frontline doctor all throughout the pandemic, serving the patients (In Delhi) directly in the wards since March 2020. I am up to date with the guidelines and treatment strategies. I have recently been felicitated for my services by my alma-mater in the UK. Please feel free to consult me if anyone is unwell and requires a targeted management. I'd include my number here if the admins give me a green light.

I also came across someone trying to use 2 oxygen concentrators (Philips everflo 5LPM) to supply to a ventilator. Could you please give us some insights into this lemedico?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKTqJw9xFmc

Originally Posted by dgoyle

I have prepared a table after browsing through a plethora of material that you all may find useful.

Attachment 2153791

type D seems to be the most used and we used your table to estimate how much oxygen is needed every day in our situation. Your work of putting it together is of good use.

[irdevanand]

Originally Posted by carthick1000

[b]The reason to 2 get 2 nos. of 5LPM is because 10LPM is literally not available anywhere and this particular brand had only 5LPM in stock. The biomedical engineer there showed it is possible to supply upto 10LPM with a Y-connector. From yesterday afternoon, my father-in-law is getting 6LPM oxygen from these 2 oxygen concentrators and 1 type D cylinder is in standby for his emergency support, if the machine fails. I am actually very happy that the hospital situation has improved now and because of the 6LPM saved for 1 patient, the hospital can use my father-in-law's quota to someone else. No words to explain the peace of mind to my wife's family.

Absolutely brilliant post carthik. Convey my heart felt wishes to your Father in law and we all wish him a very speedy recovery. He will be alright in a week. Don't worry. 3 things i love about your post

1) Finding that hack to merge 2 5LPM machines to get the 6LPM. Bravo.
2) The hospital can use my father-in-law's quota of oxygen to someone else - that line was coated with tons and tons of humanity.
3) No words to explain the peace of mind to my wife's family - i know the feeling. Its like sailing in ocean with full of water but not a drop to drink. The covid has made us realise there are alternative medicines for everything EXCEPT oxygen. These concentrator machines are a source of peace of mind as you said.

Regards
Dev

[irdevanand]

Now that we have at least one team-bhpian who has officially started using an oxygen concentrator i think the following information will be meaningful.








Source of information : Mission Oxygen twitter handle.
https://twitter.com/india_oxygen/sta...34456702525443

Regards
Dev

[rrsteer]

Does it still make sense to get an Oxygen Concentrator at home? I say still, as I am told that there no oxygen related shortages in hospitals around the country anymore. This is coming from a senior government - medico practioner. To be true I don't know the usefulness of keeping on Oxygen concentrator at home.

Hearing about the dreadful events that followed due to lack of Oxygen availability, I got in line to get an Oxygen concentrator at home (I specifically had the well being of my mother in mind). At the time, I was unable to buy one on the spot from anywhere. I instead, paid the full advance to a Pune based firm for delivery around 19th May, that has now been pushed to 29th May. A representative from the company has reached out to me, saying they expect some more delays and are willing to refund the advance I paid, should I cancel my order.

My question to the members active in this thread, is it still a good idea to buy an Oxygen concentrator?, given the Oxygen availability situation seems to be under control now. I have been hearing divergent views on it. Some say the concentrator was never required in the first place, as any situation warranting use of one means an emergency situation, and therefore being treated in hospital is mandatory. While I have heard others who say that in many cases concentrators can help the situation from escalating and ultimately help in preventing any hospitalization.

Please note, I do follow the adage prevention is better than cure. As a family we are seriously following all COVID prevention norms. I am viewing the concentrator, more as a means to avoid hospitalization ( if it can - which is my question) or help in preventing an unwanted/ uncomfortable health related situation.

[dgoyle]

Originally Posted by rrsteer

Does it still make sense to get an Oxygen Concentrator at home?

A very apt question indeed.
The intended use of oxygen concentrators has primarily been to supplement Oxygen requirements (many on 24x7) for patients suffering from Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease (cigarette smokers, occupational disease following exposure to dust, and other reasons) or some other pathology related to the impairment of oxygen transfer either in absolute or relative terms (like in autoimmune pathologies, lung surgeries). To improve the mobility of such patients oxygen concentrators were a boon as they were lighter, some battery-operated, and effectively replaced cylinders which posed many logistical issues.

However, the present crises showed us the use of these concentrators to augment oxygen requirements for not too ill patients. Concentrators are useful as mentioned above in mild to moderate stages of the disease (say SpO2 below 90% and the patient is experiencing breathlessness), supplemental oxygen by concentrators can bring about major relief without the requirement of cylinders and their inherent logistical limitations.

The concentrators have an inherent limitation as regards the concentration of oxygen. they cannot (to the best of my knowledge) provide a concentration of > 93% in a sustained manner at full flow capacity or prolonged periods.

Keeping these in perspective, if I were to make a decision, I would reflect upon two variables.
1. Marginal utility of the money (can I afford it, even if it is a dead investment).
2. Assuming Covid is here to stay while becoming milder with the passage of time, yet retaining its inherent pathology to attack the oxygen transfer mechanism (increasingly more patients can be domiciliary treated with supplemental oxygen).
Having answered the above two scenarios in the affirmative, I invested in an appropriate concentrator.

Hope this would help everyone make an informed decision.

[fordday]

Originally Posted by dgoyle

I invested in an appropriate concentrator.

Which one and why that brand/model?
This helps others to take a decision.

[hydrovac]

Originally Posted by balenoed_

Just an open question guys:

Is it something practically possible to build an oxygen concentrator at home? Is there a bottle neck to do so? Say, by using a small start up team who know a thing or two about how stuffs works. I didn't mean entirely make at home. Say if we can have access to some electronics/electrical lab set up as well. Anyone knows the technical architecture of it?

Disclaimer: This is not for any profit making, but to just help ourselves.

Yes, possible to DIY.

I have built this machine using locally available off the shelf parts.