[charanreddy]

My cousin used to work in mind tree and used to share funny instances.

A person who was interviewing for mind tree said he used to work in a company X in a certain campus. When asked to describe the companies surrounding the supposed company / branch he came from, he couldn’t. Also he told me that in one of the all hands meetings, the CEO specifically mentioned not to hire from that region as there were too many fakes.

Luckily in my current company, we go through three rounds of interview and provide a live case study for candidates to answer. Candidate is selected only if all the panels give a go ahead. I remember I had 11 rounds of interview starting from two levels below to 3 levels up. Candidate gets selected only if all interviewers give a go ahead.

[SPIKE ARRESTOR]

Originally Posted by charanreddy

I remember I had 11 rounds of interview starting from two levels below to 3 levels up. Candidate gets selected only if all interviewers give a go ahead.

11 rounds!? Did I read that right? May I know what kind of role is this? I personally find 11 rounds just too much. Is this the norm or exception in your organization?

Spike

[skrao]

As a policy we have had to undertake a lot of background checks on candidates as we handle a lot of sensitive data. It is incredible how many people resort to 1. Padding 2. Faking 3. Outright misrepresentation 4. and try to brazen it out when caught.
On the flipside I have seen ex-employers
1. giving bad character references, contrary to relieving letters 2. saying someone was not in the position claimed 3. not drawing the amounts claimed ( this is the weirdest as it is easily verifiable from tax records) 4. Accusing ex- employee of some form on moral/ethical issues

There is a real dearth of quality candidates with self motivation and skills to match. For far too long we have built educational infrastructure suitable to make clerks and not managers or creators.
As a society we celebrate the ends( success) without celebrating the means ( the journey undertaken)


We have a psychometric, self administered tech test and simple interview for most posts, and yes we pay near top dollar as compensation. One way we have found to easily build a great team is employee references, nearly 60% of new hires are referred by existing employees.

[PVS]

Though this may not related to fake candidates appearing for interviews, resume impersonation is also a very bad practice going on in the industry. When I was in the US circa 2009 to 2012, I was actively applying for jobs there, in order to switch VISA types and employers. I realized that someone by name Kapil had impersonated my profile, and I was clueless when I started getting mails about technical job openings, and the mail would begin with "Dear Kapil., We have found your resume online, and believe we have a good job for you"..

I had to shift back to India as my VISA was getting expired, and amidst all the activities involved in relocation, I couldn't actually follow up on this mysterious Mr. Kapil. The mails kept coming for a couple more years, and then they stopped coming.

[skrao]

This goes well back to the 90s and pre Y2K days. i was an area manager for a very prominent training brand and we would offer highly coveted certifications. However, the exams were tough, very few passing the course and were very strictly monitored.
There was a bus conductor who had dreams of emigrating and would often come to my office to request some jugaaad to get a certificate and he would manage the rest. It never happened with us.

Enter the new age diploma mills that tried to exploit this very niche. A current celebrity entrepreneur began his career by opening one of these centers and his idea of marketing was full page ads showing how many people he had helped go west.
Long story short, nearly 15 years later I was in NYC and a familiar face was smiling at me and rushed across a store to greet me. It was the very same bus conductor who had managed everything from birth certificate to a H1B visa and was now working as a store assistant though his designation was "IT Services". He was all praise for this entrepreneur who had facilitated that.

[the.dogfather]

Unfortunately this is not a recent phenomenon and I don't think is going to go away anytime soon.
I have seen interviews being faked in every level, from college campus interviews where one bright student who had already been placed would attempt the general aptitude questionnaire while entering the name of a weaker student in the answer sheet. For bigger mass recruiters, someone else used to give the rounds of interviews for weaker students.
However, as there was enough time from recruitment to actually joining the company the students had time to catch up, and to be frank the interview had very little relevance as the mass recruiters would be training the new campus recruits anyway.

I had ignored such things, till I personally recruited a candidate via telephonic interviews in 2011. The role was for a rare technology, so we had to look at outstation candidates and were offering relocation bonuses. The telephonic round went very well. Internet speeds were not great at this time, so video calls were not an option. The questions that I had asked were not from the internet but many tricky implementation questions I had faced and worked on in the past. Usually the candidate would give a solution, then I would point out a limitation in the technology which would not allow that and I would try to point them to the right direction to get the solution. This interview went the same way.

A week later the candidate joined us. I smelled something fishy when our manager introduced him to the team. The candidate who was speaking confidently in English, could not make a proper sentence in his introduction.
I let it go as speaking in English was not very important for the role, and sometimes nervousness also causes such actions.

My manager paired him with me, for basic knowledge transfer and to help him adjust to the work environment. I called him over to my desk, walked him through the code base, copied a latest version of code to his PC while his version control credentials are sorted and asked him to spend some time exploring the system , and asked him keep questions ready for me when I meet him later

When I went to his desk around an hour later, he only had a blank notepad open and some random sites .
I asked him if he had any issues, he said it's all fine. I asked him to open the project so that I can give him pointers where he can start from and there came the shocker. He didn't know how to open the project. I opened it for him and again walked him through the code, and asked him to run and debug the application to understand the flow. I went again after 15 mins and I saw him googling for how to run a debugger.

Now, our technology worked on only one development environment and there was no way he could have worked on the technology without knowing how to open a project or debug it.

I informed my manager and he also expressed his doubts about this candidate. We spoke to the HR, who called the candidate to a meeting room and told him that all the interview calls were recorded and that they found that his voice doesn't match with the person on call(random bluff). He offered the candidate to leave immediately or face legal actions. The guy confessed that his friend gave the interview and that he will prepare better and learn the technology. However he absconded and didn't come back the next day.

Another incident happened in a different firm. Here, I was an outstation candidate, and the company asked me to go to their location for the interview. There had been instances where I went for the interview, only to find the job didn't match my profile so I insisted on speaking with the hiring manager and have a preliminary telephonic round before I spent my money to travel for the interview. The hiring manager spoke with me, but he only told me about the role, and didn't ask any technical questions. He told me that the company will pay for the flights and hotel , which was surprising for me, as I was only a software developer with few years of experience.

When I went for the interview, the interview was done via video conferencing with three technical members in the US. I later came to know that the hiring manager had a different technical background and hence had not interviewed me.
Once I joined, we had a team consisting of mechanical, electrical, electronics and software engineers, all working on different modules. My manager was an Electronics engineer but had high level understanding of the software implementation. Other than me, there was only one other software engineer , let's call him 'K' in the team in India, and this guy was in a senior role. Soon after I introduced myself, K asked me how many years I had worked on the technology. I went for my induction, and when I came back to my desk, K called me over and asked him to help him with an assignment. I had not got my laptop yet, but was happy to check out the project and build relations, so I joined him to get some peer programming experience. He however gave me the laptop and asked me implement it, as if he was testing me. It was a little weird for me initially, and confusing, but I got hold of the system soon and made some progress with the implementation.

This went on for a few days and I completed his assignment , till I got my laptop. Once my induction was over, I was introduced to the counterparts in the US and I was asked to work with them directly.
K still would come to me every afternoon and ask how I would solve this or that. However, most of the time I would ask him to share the screen and make the changes myself as that was quicker for me.

In one instance, he came to me with a problem, where I gave him a solution for one method and asked him to make similar implementation for other methods, however next day he came to me again asking me to implement it for the rest of the methods. I was sure by now that this guy has no idea what to do, however as the work load was less, I managed to handle both mine and his work and things were going well till I met with an accident. I had a collar bone injury and I had taken two weeks off. During this time K could not complete any work given to him. When I joined back, my manager called me and asked me point blank if I was helping K with work. I agreed that I was helping, when my manager told me about K. K had been hired only on the basis of his resume and a short telephonic round. However after K joined he was not able to understand the technology or work on any of the assignments given to him. He had been warned and given a month's time to learn under the performance improvement programme and start giving solutions and they decided to hire another person for which my position was opened. This time they changed the hiring process and had insisted on having a video interview from office. K had been under performance interview programme, when I had joined the company and started helping him with the work.

The team in the US had assumed that K has turned a new leaf and has improved, so he was let off the performance improvement programme. It was only when I took my sick leaves that my manager realised what is happening. He told me that I should not be seen at K's desk from now on and that K will b placed in the performance improvement programme again. Unfortunately, K didn't work hard enough to learn this time again, and he was asked to resign. I did feel sad as even though he wasn't good at work, he was a nice person to speak with but I understand now and fully support my manager's decision.

[charanreddy]

Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR

11 rounds!? Did I read that right? May I know what kind of role is this? I personally find 11 rounds just too much. Is this the norm or exception in your organization?

Spike

Yup . It was 11 rounds spread over 5 months.

It was for an Analytics manager position about 8 yrs back. The process got initiated and I had gotten through 7 rounds of interviews. Then the process was paused and about 2 months later I was interviewed by 4 more senior people.

I think this was an exception. However 5 - 7 rounds were normal back then.

[Aiel]

FBI released a notice warning about deepfake videos being used in remote interviews.

The FBI Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3) warns of an increase in complaints reporting the use of deepfakes and stolen Personally Identifiable Information (PII) to apply for a variety of remote work and work-at-home positions. Deepfakes include a video, an image, or recording convincingly altered and manipulated to misrepresent someone as doing or saying something that was not actually done or said.

https://www.ic3.gov/Media/Y2022/PSA220628

[Turbohead]

Hi guys,

How do you actually deal with new joiners who have no clue with what they're doing?

I work in one of these WITCH companies and two new joinees who were assigned to work with me had no clue on what to do.

Last year a guy with 10 years of experience joined the team. I was new back then with less than a year of experience. Since he hadn't worked in the technology before, I had to teach him all about big data etc and other technologies from the training I recieved. All fine, since these technologies are not known by everyone.

But I soon realised that he wanted help in writing code, finding a logic to fix the problem and wanted my help in debugging nearly 90% of the time which only required you to Google. I put up with him as I was naive.

This year, he left with a massive hike and I was wondering how. Anyway, that's fine.

This year, they brought in a replacement with 6 years of experience and this guy doesn't even know how to write a python function. The similarities are stark- he needs help with everything. I was flabbergasted. I called up the manager and asked him who interviewed him. He down played it saying it's common in the industry and there is no way to know who interviewed the guy. The manager understandably is only interested in keeping the project running with billable resources. I conveyed my concern that I felt underpaid two to three times.

What should I do? I find it so frustrating since almost all interviews they ask me DSA, which I'm new to as this is not my original domain, and here are people with zero skills joining the company with salaries 2x to 4x as much as I earn and end up getting trained by me. Can we demand for a hike artist from the normal appraisal process?

I don't even know who to complain to since it was down played.

Absolutely frustrated.

[msdivy]

Originally Posted by Turbohead

I don't even know who to complain to since it was down played.

There are 3 ways, assuming the new joiner won't improve:
1) Do the work of the new joiner. Let him enjoy office life.
2) Assign the tasks to him and let the manager track his progress. You are available for consultation only.
3) Quit.
Since 3 is off the table, 1 means over-working your life, the option is 2.

[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by Turbohead

He down played it saying it's common in the industry and there is no way to know who interviewed the guy. The manager understandably is only interested in keeping the project running with billable resources. I conveyed my concern that I felt underpaid two to three times.

What should I do? I find it so frustrating since almost all interviews they ask me DSA, which I'm new to as this is not my original domain, and here are people with zero skills joining the company with salaries 2x to 4x as much as I earn and end up getting trained by me. Can we demand for a hike artist from the normal appraisal process?

I don't even know who to complain to since it was down played.

Absolutely frustrated.

You are mixing up two problems.

1) You feel/are underpaid.

2) Hiring is screwing it up and expecting you/peers to scale them up.

Don't mix it up. 1) is a conversation that need to be done in isolation using other levers (for e.g. get offers from the market and bargain for hikes).

For 2), keep email trails. Check if your responsibilities/KPIs cover training these new guys - I'm sure they wouldn't be. Even if it is, document it on email with the manager and higher up in cc keeping it factual. Give feedback on email at every stage - a week after he joins and you have had a few discussions / trial runs with him; a month later, 3 months later. Again keep it factual.

As for the previous guy, put up your experience/feedback to the manager and higher up on email now itself. Use that as a basis to justify your regular feedback on the new resource. The manager won't be able to complain then.

WITCH companies (like most big service organizations) are loth to change. If push comes to shove, the manager will blame it on the HR recruitment team. And you'll be back to square one.

As for "training" the new resource, keep it short. In addition to what @msdivy said below, I'd suggest preparing a set of limited "training" sessions and limiting your help to that. Make it clear upfront how LESS available you are going to be (in a nice manner).

Originally Posted by msdivy

There are 3 ways, assuming the new joiner won't improve:
1) Do the work of the new joiner. Let him enjoy office life.
2) Assign the tasks to him and let the manager track his progress. You are available for consultation only.
3) Quit.
Since 3 is off the table, 1 means over-working your life, the option is 2.

+1 to this.

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by Turbohead

This year, he left with a massive hike and I was wondering how. Anyway, that's fine.
appraisal process?

I don't even know who to complain to since it was down played.

Absolutely frustrated.

Get out of the country as soon as possible. The corporate and general culture of this country means either

1. You become a scam artist itself as evidenced by your peers above
2. You become an entrepreneur and create your own work culture
3. You leave the country for good.
4. Take an early retirement into rural India and never come back.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by Turbohead

But I soon realised that he wanted help in writing code, finding a logic to fix the problem and wanted my help in debugging nearly 90% of the time which only required you to Google.

Oh boy, this sounds so familiar.

Like ninjatalli says these are 2 separate problems. If you really think you are underpaid- for the work you do and not just because someone less qualified is getting paid more (I know that matters too, we are human- but that is also a never ending comparison and you will always remain frustrated if you keep looking at that aspect)- then put in a request for a raise based on your work achievements and also start looking for a job shift.

About spending all your time training inept new joinees, well that is trickier. You could try some of the following:

*First, see if they can be trained. Perhaps your dissatisfaction at their being paid more is clouding your judgement about their actual abilities?
*Record some short training sessions while you are training one of them. Refer the next one to those. If they still come back with the same questions covered in the recording, tell them you will proceed only after they have absorbed the training.
*If the person is truly inept or unwilling to learn, assign the lower level tasks to them. Frees you to focus on the creative actual coding tasks. Let them handle code comments, test case coverage, things like that.
*Is this a case of management without authority? Is your manager delegating some of his work to you without giving you the authority to manage these new people? Raise that with management and ask what are the limits of your role in this aspect.
*Do you want to move to a management role? If so, this is a good opportunity to show you are ready by training team members. If you want to remain an IC, inform management that these additional responsibilities are eating in to your coding time. Either get them to make allowances for that, perhaps even add that as a stretch goal on your appraisal, or ask them to define where your responsibility ends wrt these new people.

[Turbohead]

Originally Posted by msdivy

There are 3 ways, assuming the new joiner won't improve:
1) Do the work of the new joiner. Let him enjoy office life.
2) Assign the tasks to him and let the manager track his progress. You are available for consultation only.
3) Quit.
Since 3 is off the table, 1 means over-working your life, the option is 2.

1) Did it and got burnt out.
2) This is the problem. The manager is asking him to ask me to clarify his doubts despite being a so called tech lead.
3) Still in the cards. Upskilling myself to get out by the year end with hard skills especially in a questionable economy.

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

As for "training" the new resource, keep it short. In addition to what @msdivy said below, I'd suggest preparing a set of limited "training" sessions and limiting your help to that. Make it clear upfront how LESS available you are going to be (in a nice manner).

Yes, I am mixing up 1 and 2 but it's too obvious to ignore.

But even if it's not in my KPI and by being less available, will the accusations that I'm not a team player stick enough to get me fired before I find a job?

Originally Posted by Red Liner

Get out of the country as soon as possible. The corporate and general culture of this country means either

1. You become a scam artist itself as evidenced by your peers above
2. You become an entrepreneur and create your own work culture
3. You leave the country for good.
4. Take an early retirement into rural India and never come back.

3 is an option I'm considering but no guarantees at this point. Don't want to be 1 in any way.

Originally Posted by am1m

*Is this a case of management without authority? Is your manager delegating some of his work to you without giving you the authority to manage these new people? Raise that with management and ask what are the limits of your role in this aspect.

How long should I wait and see to conclude that the new hire is fit? I'm actually sick of training the other guy and it breaks my heart to know that I'll have to train the new guy from scratch. The KT the old guy was asked to do was evidently bad.

Yes, this is a case of management without authority and a lot of things are purposely done without mails. In fact writing a mail requesting them to send a mail to clarify their doubts is causing havoc and they're requesting to check with the leads before sending such a mail.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by Turbohead

But even if it's not in my KPI and by being less available, will the accusations that I'm not a team player stick enough to get me fired before I find a job?

How long should I wait and see to conclude that the new hire is fit? I'm actually sick of training the other guy and it breaks my heart to know that I'll have to train the new guy from scratch.

Yes, this is a case of management without authority and a lot of things are purposely done without mails.

Detach a bit would be my advice and start looking out for a different job.

I've been in exactly the same situation. As a senior member of the team on an IC track, I was often tasked with getting new team members "up to speed" (one time, even my new manager up to speed) but with no real means to provide feedback on their performance. And at times when HR was literally scraping the bottom of the barrel to get new recruits. I've had to work with team members who couldn't respond to client e-mails, literally had to proof-read their e-mails before they sent them! After my last job switch, I was still on a weekly call with one of my former team members for a month(!) after I left that job, doing some hand-holding.

If the person is responsive, it's a joy to see some of your work through a fresh pair of eyes. If the person is an idiot or is just marking time till the next job shift, it's soul-sucking, demoralizing. But the best thing you can do is to not let it affect you (easier said than done I know, but for your own sanity). If HR or management can't care enough to hire the right people or ensure that you have the resources and time needed to bring them up to speed. And neither do they want to give you credit for this additional overhead that you didn't ask for, start making exit plans to a smaller org that doesn't have the luxury of this many layers of (mis) management.

But again, I'll reiterate- if you do want to go the management track, this is an opportunity. Manage the resources you have, and blow your own trumpet about how you did it, on calls, during meetings, when responding to mails. This is an opportunity that many seize to show they are ready for the next step up. But if you are a techie who just wants to code, I understand how depressing this sort of thing is.