[goacom]

@v.narayan, yes it is true that the T72 and T80 have not been in production for a while. However, they have continue to be upgraded. The updated French electronics have been used for the Russian tanks used by the Russian military. Thales continued to supply Russia even after the 2014 invasion due to a clause that allowed sanctions to not be applicable for contracts signed before 2014. It is only now that France/Thales has started blocking sales of these electronics to Russia. It is of course possible that Russia may have enough in stock that it does not care.

https://twitter.com/MrKovalenko/stat...1260050661384?

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

The Thales equipment is used only on the models or upgrades that are for export. The ones the Russians use have Russian electronics, sights, infrared, laser deception systems etc. This piece of apparent news coming from Ukraine sounds like propaganda from the other side. Allow me to share some facts. Having dealt with Russian aviation bureaus in my time and seen the depth of Russian military technology, design capability and knowledge I very much doubt this. I have also worked closely as a vendor with Airbus, Boeing, Bell & Sikorsky so I have a point of reference. For all you know the Russians have planted this mis-information. The T-72 and T-80 have not been in production for 20 years. Only the T-90 remains in production. The Indian Army which is the largest customer of the T-90 in the world {we build it at Avadi, Tamil Nadu} had the option to fit French or Israeli sub-systems. We only replaced the Russian laser deception system with an Israeli one in the second batch because the Israel one is of a much later generation and we fitted an Israeli fire suppression safety system. We apparently found all the Russian fire control electronics & sights fully adequate to our needs. I'm sharing these facts not to put you down (I'm too old for that) but to share that if a knowledgeable reader goes through that news item it reads amateurish.
I love the sound of that :-) Thank you for this perspective.

[AltoLXI]

Azovstal steel plant built by Soviets as a safeguard against nuclear attack.
No wonder they are using bunker busting bombs now to flush out Ukrainian fighters.

[download2live]

One thing which comes out is how endemic corruption can hollow out institutions. Russian army has been a poor show in front western weapons and intelligence.
It shows that although corruption is a battle which can never be won it is a battle worth fighting.

Again I feel bad for Ukrainians caught up in this geo-political battle.

I hope Russians call it quits after Maripoul. And this whole sordid saga ends. Already global economy is reeling from it. It is just not getting reported by Western dominated media.

Crop planting season has been missed in Ukraine. We will see actual impact in coming days.

[Foxbat]

Equality for all refugees?


Germany Is Displacing Afghan Refugees to Make Way for Ukrainians

Hundreds of Afghans who fled the Taliban have been evicted as an even larger flood of Ukrainian war refugees arrive.

BERLIN—The knock on the door came when Mariam Arween was having breakfast with her husband and two small daughters. An unexpected visitor—a social worker—stood outside, bringing even more unexpected news: The family would have to clear out their home for newly arriving refugees from Ukraine. No questions, no negotiation, just “out within 24 hours,” they were told.

Arween, 33, a social activist and refugee from Afghanistan who arrived in Berlin in late January, fleeing the Taliban with the help of the German government after receiving threats for two consecutive years, is one of hundreds of Afghans across Germany who have been shunted aside to make way for newly arrived refugees from Ukraine.

“The evictions purposefully weren’t publicized. Some people had lived in their homes for years and were ripped out of their social structures, including children who were moved to locations far from their respective schools,” said Tareq Alaows, a board member of the Berlin Refugee Council, a collaboration of different organizations helping to improve conditions for refugees in the German capital and making sure their rights are adhered to.

Source: https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/04/20...istan-ukraine/

[aim120]

Originally Posted by AltoLXI

Azovstal steel plant built by Soviets as a safeguard against nuclear attack.
No wonder they are using bunker busting bombs now to flush out Ukrainian fighters.

For days now russia asked the combatants inside the plant to surrender with their lives guaranteed.
Russia has been broadcasting on open radio channels and using leaflets in dummy artillery shells urging the same.
But so far not that many soldiers have surrendered. Those who do try to take that leaflet and surrender are shot in the back by the Azov Nazis. Kyiv has made it clear that it will be fight till death.

Western media has been saying that russian has extended the offer twice and that russia could anytime bomb the combatants inside and civilians. But what they don't ask is why civilians are not being let out by the Ukraine armed forces.

Putin today has asked his Defense Minister not to assault the steel plant. Since it will risk russian forces lives if they have to use special forces inside that maze of catacomb, which is probably booby trapped with clay more, grenades etc. and potential civilians casualties.

Putin has instead asked them to secure the plant surrounding to make it impossible for anyone to escape.
But also has extended the offer indefinitely to anyone inside to lay down the arms and surrender and that they will be unharmed and also allow the civilians inside to be freed.

[Poitive]

Originally Posted by lifeinpune

Here is a very interesting vlog from Gonzalo Lira

Saw the following on Twitter:

Dan Cohen @dancohen3000:
Extremely troubling that @realGonzaloLira, a US citizen in Ukraine, has disappeared from social media. He was scheduled to interview me last Friday about Zelensky’s SBU kidnapping and assassinating dissidents, and now I fear he has become its latest victim. #WhereIsGonzaloLira https://twitter.com/realgonzalolira/...44195212824582

Link: https://twitter.com/dancohen3000/sta...79508246765574

Context:
Pinned tweet from. 26 March 2022



Link: https://twitter.com/realGonzaloLira/...44195212824582



Covered by CNN in Chile:
Link: https://www.cnnchile.com/mundo/canci...ania_20220418/
Link to translation: https://www-cnnchile-com.translate.g...ania_20220418/

There are tweets claiming/indicating that he has been captured by the Azov. One eg:

Link: https://twitter.com/dancohen3000/sta...70868610387971

Have gone through some of his expressions (videos, tweets) and he seemed very interesting; had Russia favouring views. Had said that a publication called Dailybeast put his life at risk. He claimed to have gone from Kyiv to Kharkiv in the heat if the conflict (I was surprised why he'd do that). IIRC he has also appeared on RT in the past.

Not sure what to make of it.
.

[goacom]

Originally Posted by Foxbat

I wasn't aware that everyone in America knew of this. I'm sure strict action was taken against the perpetrators according to the rule of law and democratic principles.

Absolutely. There were a lot of demonstrations in the US during and after the Iraq invasion. There is a reason why the Bush dynasty is finished. One can contrast this with Russia, where you will be locked up or worse if you oppose the war. I suggest you widen your news sources a bit.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/03/09/...war-protesters

Originally Posted by Foxbat

Sorry for your loss, but don't you think it's a bit odd you were just supporting the sharing of images of dead bodies of Russian soldiers with their mothers?

Thank you. But, yes, the worst feeling for a parent is not knowing what has happened to their child. Putin and his henchmen are callously ignoring the plight of Russian mothers. Heck, officially, as far as the Russian propaganda machine is concerned, there is no war, but just a special military operation.

https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-moskv.../31813120.html

Originally Posted by Foxbat

Also interesting:
Twitter’s rules around the labels mean state-financed media outlets in the West which are editorially independent of the government such as the BBC or NPR in the US are not branded as “state-affiliated”.
But outlets such as RT - formerly Russia Today - and the Chinese-government backed Global Times newspaper are.

George Galloway is an employee of RT. RT, Global Times are 100% financed and editorially controlled by the political parties that run those countries. For example, Global times reports to the Chinese Communist party. NPR gets only around 1% of its funding from the US government. I am not too sure about the BBC, but it seems to be around 50% from the British government. Furthermore, in neither cases do these entities have any affiliation with the ruling political party. Finally, their editorial content or staff controlled or selected by the the state/ruling party. So yeah a night and day difference.

Originally Posted by mayukh42

OT:

Western media too can be considered informally state-controlled but with a twist - it is so when ideology of the government in power matches theirs.

I guess you should listen to Fox vs CNN or NYTimes vs WSJ. There are typically two spins on everything. One is conservative/right wing while the other is liberal/left wing. The same is true with India as well.
In Russia and China there is no left wing or right wing. Everything is under the wing of the ruling party.

Originally Posted by BlueFreedom

********
Russian forces seem to have the time and the military might to wage a long battle. There will definitely be an impact on the Russian economy because of these sanctions, but a country which is blessed with sufficient energy and food grain production can withstand this with some difficulty, Russians are not new to this hardship. There will be countries which will be open to trade with Russia for essential commodities such as agricultural produce, fertilizers and even oil, which will keep the Russian economy afloat. Unfortunately Ukraine has become irrelevant in this whole equation.
The question is how long the West can support Ukraine with the ammunitions, at some point of time Ukraine will run out of personnel and West might run out of its military reserve to support this conflict.
Hope this conflict ends soon with negotiations and compromises from both the parties

Agree, it will be a battle of endurance. You may be right, but the alternate point of view is that the longer it goes on, the worse it will get for Russia.
First lets take Russia's energy exports. Something like 60% of it goes to Europe. By late 2023, it is expected that Europe will be able to cut off most of this dependence. Neither China nor India will be able to absorb this surplus - there is no delivery infrastructure to do it. India has been unfairly targeted by some in the western media for increasing its oil imports from Russia by some 300%, but that is still less than a few days of Russian energy imports by say Germany.

Next, Ukraine will need between 20-40 Billion $ in aid per year to sustain itself. The west spends $1000B in just defense spending per year, or around 2.5% of GDP. Russia cant sustain that level of spending as that would be close to 70% of its GDP.

The real question is whether the allies will continue to maintain the focus on Ukraine. It will definitely be a lot more than the west's lack of interest in Iraq or Afghanistan. Germany has announced a massive increase in its defense budget, which even at 2%of GDP will exceed that of Russia's, thanks to its big economy. Finland and Sweden which have resisted joining NATO for 70 years may join the alliance. For the US, Ukraine is a bigger issue than say Afghanistan because Europe is its biggest trading partner. Like it or not, Money is God. Hence my feeling is that at least for a few years, the focus will remain. The question is whether the Russian economy will be able to take this pressure. Unlike WW2, Russia is much more economically weaker and isolated today.

Originally Posted by Foxbat

Equality for all refugees?


Germany Is Displacing Afghan Refugees to Make Way for Ukrainians

Hundreds of Afghans who fled the Taliban have been evicted as an even larger flood of Ukrainian war refugees arrive.

You conveniently excluded the fact that ALL the displaced Afghans were being provided alternate accommodations. They are not being thrown out of Germany. People are being moved around to consolidate resources for logistics purposes. It could be to consolidate language services, food etc. It may not be perfect and obviously some will not be happy. However, Germany has to be congratulated for being a beacon for the down trodden. I dont recall any refugees being welcomed to Russia. BTW, I got to wonder what 20,000 Indian students were doing in Nazi Ukraine as opposed to the peace loving nation of mother Russia?

======
He said Berlin had a total of 83 different accommodations for refugees, already housing some 22,000 people, but that arriving Ukrainians needed to be consolidated to a few defined arrival centers to simplify processing. Strauss said evicted Afghans were given other “permanent” accommodation of equivalent quality, excluding shared bathrooms and kitchens.
=======

[lifeinpune]

Originally Posted by Poitive

Saw the following on Twitter:

Link: https://twitter.com/dancohen3000/sta...79508246765574

Context:
Pinned tweet from. 26 March 2022

Attachment 2299271

Link: https://twitter.com/realGonzaloLira/...44195212824582


Attachment 2299278
Covered by CNN in Chile:
Link: https://www.cnnchile.com/mundo/canci...ania_20220418/
Link to translation: https://www-cnnchile-com.translate.g...ania_20220418/

Not sure what to make of it.
.

Its saddening. The chronological correlation between him going offline and the claim by the Neo-Nazi can’t just be a coincidence. Its unlike him to not post content. He likes to talk. Its been 10 days now without any vlog from him. While everyone is hoping against hope that he is just offline, things look grim with every passing day.

Never understood why he didn’t leave Ukraine when he could. To top it, he minced no words in criticizing Zelensky and the neo-nazis knowing fully well that they are on the prowl. When some nay-sayers challenged him to prove he is in Ukraine, he even posted videos of him walking around in Kharkov to prove it. It was suicidal.

[iTNerd]

With evidence of mass graves in Buccha and supposedly Mariupol where thousands of civilians are believed to have been perished in the Russian seize and Shelling, it is irony for certain people in this forum to have this notion that the Ukrainian combatants including the Azov Regiments should have surrendered to the Russians to save their lives. The fact is, most of the Ukrainian defenders believed they will be tortured and summarily executed even if they surrender, considering the nasty fighting that had taken place, with drone videos of Russian columns and soldiers being ambushed and killed. With news of civilians of cities and towns under Russian control being executed circulating, I bet they had chosen to perish fighting in their own peril instead of being executed.

And for those who like to believe the Russians are saint and holy, let's not forget, the Russians had shot down many civilian airliners in the past without any consideration of innocent lives (Korean Air Lines Flight 007, Korean Air flight 902, Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 etc). I bet, they are very good at shooting civilians!

[goacom]

Looks like Russia has declared victory in Mariupol. What a strange way to liberate a place by destroying it and its inhabitants in-order to save them/it.

What is even stranger is that they had to rely on Islamic Chechen fighters led by a well known gangster to do it!

https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status...02551858421763


The body language of Putin and his Minister of Defense is very interesting as well. Putin is trying to look relaxed, but is clearly very stressed as evidenced by him holding on to the table. The Minister in contrast seems to be subservient with fear. Maybe he is afraid that Putin might open the trap door with a secret switch under the table

https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status...792001/video/1

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by goacom

Looks like Russia has declared victory in Mariupol. What a strange way to liberate a place by destroying it and its inhabitants in-order to save them/it.

Oh they learnt it from the Americans in Vietnam where it was official policy to burn down the village in order to save it. War crimes, anyone? Not condoning what the Russians are doing, not at all. Just reminding the Western media and its hand wringing who made this popular.

Mariupol and its sad ruins are the fig leaf Putin needs to 'declare victory'. Maybe like George Bush he should stand on the carrier Kuznetsov and declare victory. The battle of Ukraine hopefully will wind down for the sake of the hapless Ukrainian civilians. Maybe the long winded battle of the dollar is about to begin.

[skanchan95]

Originally Posted by goacom

However, from what I have read, the upgraded T-72 as well as the T80 and T90 tanks use French optics and electronics manufactured by Thales which are no longer available to them.

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

The Thales equipment is used only on the models or upgrades that are for export. The ones the Russians use have Russian electronics, sights, infrared, laser deception systems etc. This piece of apparent news coming from Ukraine sounds like propaganda from the other side. Allow me to share some facts. Having dealt with Russian aviation bureaus in my time and seen the depth of Russian military technology, design capability and knowledge I very much doubt this. I have also worked closely as a vendor with Airbus, Boeing, Bell & Sikorsky so I have a point of reference. For all you know the Russians have planted this mis-information. The T-72 and T-80 have not been in production for 20 years. Only the T-90 remains in production. The Indian Army which is the largest customer of the T-90 in the world {we build it at Avadi, Tamil Nadu} had the option to fit French or Israeli sub-systems. We only replaced the Russian laser deception system with an Israeli one in the second batch because the Israel one is of a much later generation and we fitted an Israeli fire suppression safety system. We apparently found all the Russian fire control electronics & sights fully adequate to our needs.

To add to Narayan Sir's excellent post, Not many may be aware that the T-90 is not a "new" tank, but a actually further development of the T-72 - called the T-72BU, which was first designated as the T-88 and then later T-90( signifying that it was the first new tank of Modern Russia built in the 90s).

In the 1980s, there were three different tanks in production in the Soviet Union for the Soviet Army and for exports. These were the T-64, T-72 and T-80. All three tanks had similar characteristics and the same main gun, yet all posed different logistics issues because each had different engines and suspension.

Of the three, the T-72 was regraded as the mobilization tank. It was an inexpensive design that could be produced quickly in large numbers at low cost. The T-72's fire control system was a generation behind the T-64 & T-80 though.

After the collapse/split of the Soviet Union, the main factory producing the T-80 was now in the newly formed Ukraine. A 2nd plant producing the T-80 was in Russia, but it did not have the capacity of the one in Ukraine. Due to budgetary concerns after the collapse of the Soviet Union, it was decided that Russia could no longer mass produce two types of tanks (T-80 & T-72) and priority was given to the "new" T-90. For further reading on the T-80 & T-7s production details, please refer to the book "T-90 Standard Tank - the First tank of the New Russia" by the brilliant Steven Zaloga.

The collapse of the Soviet Union also meant that the state funding and series production of the T-72BU/T-90 was thrown into chaos. To further complicate matters, there had been widespread attention on the poor performance of the T-72 in the hands of the Iraqis in the Desert Storm conflict. While the main fault was the poor training and leadership of the Iraqi Army and not inherent problems with the T-72's design, it nevertheless tarnished the T-72's reputation because of the Iraqi debacle.

At the time, the T-72 was the staple export tank and to distance the T-72BU from the tarnished reputation of the T-72, it was decided to first re-name the T-72BU as the T-88, a contraction of its interna design code name - Obiekt 188. After further discussion, it was changed to T-90 to symbolize the fact that it was the first Russian tank built in the 1990s

In many ways, the T-90A/S, just the Su-30MKI & MiG-29K, owes it success and development continuity to India!!! In the early 90s, Russian Army orders for the T-90 had dried up and declined to zero. India was the first export customer for the T-90S. In the 1990s, when Pakistan was close to acquiring improved T-80U tanks from Ukraine, India signaled interest to the buy the T-90 ( having earlier conducted trials of the T-80 & T-72S).

The T-90s that you see today are not tanks of a new design per se but rather highly evolved T-72s. A debate has also raged within the Russian Army over the years about whether it was more prudent to buy new T-90 tanks or spend the same money to bring a large number of old T-72B tanks closer to capabilities of the T-90 through a modification program. In 2016, the Russian Army funded a program to upgrade T-72B to T-72B3 standards. These T-72B3 2016 are seeing action in Ukraine in more numbers than the T-90s.

The definitive Indian T-90S also became the basis for a Russian T-90A. In 2005 the Russian army resumed delivery of the T-90, requesting the "original" specification for the vehicle with a cast turret. But with the new order numbering a paltry 14 tanks, and the large capital investment required to set up production of new cast turrets, the Russian Ministry of Defence agreed on a new configuration very close to the Indian T-90S, which was expeditiously accepted into service without any trials as the Object 188A1 or T-90A.

And yes, Russian T-90s and other MBTs use Russian origin equipment only. Its the export T-90s that get a choice of equipment replacements from France/Israel etc. Even Russia's highly upgrade T-72B3s have Russian equipment only.

Note the two "eyes" on either side of the main gun on the T-90 turret.

Those things are the infrared jammers. They turn red and make the tanks look really scary, especially at night. These things are part of the Shtora-1 active protection system on the Russian T-90A Vladimir (named after the T-90's chief designer), which disrupts laser rangefinders of guided anti-tank missiles. The system uses two interface stations each mounted on the side of the gun, which gives it the “two eyes” look. India in the early 2000s, opted not to have this system on our T-90s as it was considered outdated and ineffective. I do not know what Active Protection System India opted for instead for our T-90s, but now when you see Russian T-90s getting whacked easily by ATGMs in Ukraine, India's decision not to opt for that system probably was right.

[Indian2003]

I followed this war from the begining but all I could see was propaganda and I stopped watching. It reminds me of the Vietnam war and the 1971 war where 2 bad guys were created. They were India and the Vietcong.

In Ukraine the Russians supposedly painted "for the children" on their decommisioned missiles and bombs civilians. Ukraine did show a spent missile targeted at a railway station with those words on the shell and the Western media went crazy.

My facebook account has been restricted after I posted a photograph of the Azov Battalion posing with both the Swastika and Nato flags. The Nazies are protected by the Western media.

Check out the Gul of Tonkin false flag operation. Tass did publish that the Americans sank their own warship but a combined Western media screamed Russian propaganda and the news died down. 50 years later, it has been declassified and available online.

Here is a video by Kim Iversen and worth watching.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEIFwLKlq1Q

That truth is the first casualty in a war has got new meaning in this war.

[AltoLXI]

EU advises citizens to reduce dependency on Russian oil and gas. Drive less and work from home.

People across Europe have helped Ukraine by making donations or aiding refugees directly, and many would like to do more. Most households are also experiencing higher energy bills because of the energy crisis exacerbated by the war. Using less energy is not only an immediate way for Europeans to reduce their bills, it also supports Ukraine by reducing the need for Russian oil and gas, thereby helping to reduce the revenue streams funding the invasion.

Link 1

Link 2

[Foxbat]

Originally Posted by skanchan95

To add to Narayan Sir's excellent post, Not many may be aware that the T-90 is not a "new" tank, but a actually further development of the T-72 - called the T-72BU, which was first designated as the T-88 and then later T-90( signifying that it was the first new tank of Modern Russia built in the 90s).

but now when you see Russian T-90s getting whacked easily by ATGMs in Ukraine, India's decision not to opt for that system probably was right.
Attachment 2299338

A very detailed history of the naming of the T-90, was not aware it was referred to T-72BU earlier.

No doubt many Russian tanks have been lost to ATGMs but only detailed analysis of how many missiles fired, what % hit and how many tanks were knocked out will form a complete picture of their effectiveness.

Right now almost all our sources are from the West which will only show the success of AGTMs but not failures:

This Russian force’ T-72B3 tank sustained three hits from an ATGM (either Javelin, NLAW, or both) and still returned to base under its own power.





I found this on Twitter but these "Pro-Russian" handles get banned quickly.

Another problem is that Russian and Ukrainian forces use similar equipment (i.e T-72s) and every destroyed tank of a the same type is described as Russian by Western Media and shown around the world to build a perception that they are winning the war.


How many tank experts can identify this as a Ukrainian T-72?



I assume it is as it described as one on Russia Today (I'm guessing they won't show their own blown up tank )



Ukrainian Propaganda and many western news sources are quick to exploit this confusion but sometimes they get caught:

On Twitter, videos from February 25 showing a military tank running over a car in the Obolon district of Ukraine's capital city Kyiv have garnered over ten million views. But contrary to what some users claim, this is not a Russian tank deliberately running over a civilian. There are many indications that the incident actually involved a Ukrainian tank.


"Russian terrorists drove a tank purposely over a civilian's car." Since February 25, videos showing an armoured vehicle running over a car in Obolon have been viewed more than ten million times. As gunfire was erupting in this northeastern district of Kyiv,many English- and French-speaking accounts claimed that these images showed a Russian tank deliberately running over a civilian. But there is no evidence to support this. On the contrary, there are several indications that it is a Ukrainian tank.

Before someone accuses me of pushing Russian propaganda, here is the link to the article:

https://observers.france24.com/en/eu...ilian-car-kyiv

France 24 in French, is a French state-owned international news television network based in Paris.

Off Topic: The amount of censorship of anything Pro-Russian on Social Media and Search results is unbelievable. Apart from Telegram I think every internet company is suppressing all losses in Ukrainian Armed Forces. I had seen so many pics earlier and a few news articles and they have all been removed from the internet. I had to search on Twitter to find these pics on some small accounts which have not been taken down yet.