[Nikhil Beke]

Originally Posted by car-o-holic

I was going through this thread and it has been a while since anyone has posted....
Wanted to know if anyone here has recently tried any of the "Diabetes Reversal" programs and attained success?
I have been attending some of the webinars and am thinking of trying out either Gabit or Sugarfit or Zivov as the information presented seems logical and the programme doable; just want to know if anyone has been successful using any of these programmes (between 20k and 35k depending on the program) before i plonk my hard earned money to try it out!

A large part of modus operandi of any such programme would be through loss of visceral adiposity. Improving muscle insulin resistance would further help, through light endurance activities and strength training(addressing sarcopenia) after visceral fat has been shed.
Please go through Prof Roy Taylor's work: "Life workout diabetes".
https://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/researc...licinformation

[car-o-holic]

Originally Posted by sachinayak

Before trying out any program, would suggest do three basic steps

Thank you very much, will certainly try these.

I am on 14:8 IF for over a year now; my dinner is around 5.30 pm and breakfast is at about 8 am.

Reducing processed foods is where I fail & need to get that on track! Will try the apple cider trick right away

Originally Posted by sachinayak

track any improvements using a continuous glucose monitor (Freestyle Libre from Abbott costs 2.6K for a 2 week period). The ones provided by Sugarfit are probably not as accurate (but I could be wrong here).

Can you please DM the contact for Freestyle Libre; it costs me close to 5k when I procure it from Apollo or from an agent.

Many thanks again! Will post any progress I make in the next 2 months here

[Ays7]

Originally Posted by car-o-holic

Thank you very much, will certainly try these.


Can you please DM the contact for Freestyle Libre; it costs me close to 5k when I procure it from Apollo or from an agent.

Many thanks again! Will post any progress I make in the next 2 months here

Same here, even I have been seeing prices of Free Style Libre as 5.2K. Would love to know how you are procuring them for half the price, and if the same is available to others as well.

I have used them twice and find myself much more conscious about what I eat when I have the sensor on me.

Thanks

[null]

My recent tests show I am diabetic. I don't want to start with oral medication immediately & want to monitor the sugar levels based on what I consume using a Continuous Glucose Monitor (CGM) device for a few weeks before heading to a doctor.

I used to eat a lot of sugar based food ranging from milk with 3-4 spoons of sugar, sweets from shop (e.g. Jelebi or rasmalai or rasgulla or..), large quantity of ice-cream at one go, chocolates, toffees.. Basically, anything and everything sweet all the time. Have given up almost all the above for last few weeks along with some dietary changedls, been through keto flu, and now back to normal now. Had a week of festivities (couple of weddings) last week and hence want to seriously monitor and control blood glucose level for next few weeks and hence this idea.

If you or anyone you know is using these monitors, please share feedback on the same in terms of its reliability, monitoring ease (app based?), cost, and any other parameter you found useful/useless or this idea of mine.

[deepak_misra]

Originally Posted by null

If you or anyone you know is using these monitors, please share feedback on the same in terms of its reliability, monitoring ease (app based?), cost, and any other parameter you found useful/useless or this idea of mine.

I am not answering your question, but think a CGM might be an overkill depending on your H1BAC levels.

I have just heard anecdotal evidence about cheaper CGM being not very reliable. Also heard that Abot is the best but this is from a very casual conversation

It is a great idea to delay taking medicines and control BS through life style changes.
Drastically reducing carbs has dramatic effect on lowered BS levels.
Excersize in terms of building muscles has a more long term effect

CGM has 2 benefits:

1) Understanding which food spikes your BS
2) Keeping you on your toes in a more consistent manner

However if you are disciplined, this might not be required at all and an ordinary glucose monitoring machine will do along with checking Hb1AC levels once in 3 months

Negative effects of CGM are the obsessive monitoring (which could be construed to be a good thing )

Please check about non invasive CGM. However I had read a scientific paper which mentioned that the margin of error was too high


After being afflicted for 20 years, I wish I had not started medicine and tried lifestyle changes

Hopefully there will be some discoveries in our lifetime to cure diabetes

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by null

I don't want to start with oral medication immediately & want to monitor the sugar levels based on what I consume using a Continuous Glucose Monitor (CGM) device

I hope you have got HbA1c done as well. If you are around 7.5 to 8 mark, you can try to come in the normal range by diet.

CGMs are very good for people who are dependent on insulin. They can inject quantities based on the need rather than approximation. Your intent and thought are also right, but it may be overkill, at least initially.

First of all, you should get a good-quality sugar measuring machine. One Touch makes some of the better ones. Daily morning fasting checks should give you an idea. You can also selectively do random testing, but ensure you have not eaten anything in the past 2 hours at least. Also, a lab check every month can help you with an average HbA1c.

If you or anyone you know is using these monitors, please share feedback on the same in terms of its reliability, monitoring ease (app based?), cost

Libre is best; you can speak to the company representative for current costs and offers. I think due to certain regulatory issues, we don't get the latest models (System 2) yet. But as I mentioned, go via this route after at least 3-4 months monitoring via regular machines/ monthly lab tests.

https://www.freestyle.abbott/in-en/niup.html

[VW2010]

[My recent tests show I am diabetic. I don't want to start with oral medication immediately & want to monitor the sugar levels based on what I consume using a Continuous Glucose Monitor (CGM) device for a few weeks before heading to a doctor.]

My advice is to run the results with a professional and plan your next steps to bring things back into control. It is better to take a holistic approach than the "you can fix it as you broke it" approach. I went through a similar stage, and I was more interested in baselining the problem and working from there than in fearing what the doctor would say. It is metabolic, which means a few other parameters will also be out of range. A professional can help with the right advice. B12 and D are not bad tests to baseline and work on them.

Don't be scared of medicine. Most will start with metformin, which is not a bad thing once you learn about it. The aim at an early stage is to get fasting glucose under control.

Check your insulin rather than just your blood glucose.

What worked for me was discipline, almost 7% weight loss eliminating things unscrupulously from my eating habits, and having a goal. The goal is to shed 12 to 14% of weight, workout or sport every day, and binge once in a while approach.

CGM is wonderful to understand how your body reacts to food. CGM helped me to be aware of how white rice or anything white played havoc for me while everything else was ok. Also, someone said 2.6k for the CGM. if they can share a contact I will get a few as well. Freestyle libre works and is fairly consistent and is closer to the blood test during the periodic visit than the strip-based tests. Unfortunately, we don't have the libre 3 which records and transmits data far more frequently than the 2 which is available in the market.

Skin irritation and itch are the only side effects and hence I advise doing this once a month or once every two months allowing the skin to heal. It is painless and works well.

There are times I try some thing new to eat and look at the reaction. Example even sugar free ice creams. My interest is to not to live a sage like life but find how my body reacts and still enjoy food.

White rice, peanuts, dosa and roti and anything from that family is completely out from my plate. I will eat them as a 1 time treat in a year without shocking the body.

In the end while self monitoring is great if your Hba1c indicates you are indeed diabetic, my recommendation is to baseline the parameters and genuinely work on the options.

Aim is stay of insulin as a first step and then stay of any other medicine including metformin.

[androdev]

It would be nice if members could share their experiences about the Indian foods to avoid and easily available substitutes from diabetes point of view. Internet is full of influencer gyaan which is unreliable and not always relatable to the groceries and recipes that are easily available and manageable at a typical Indian home.

[deepak_misra]

Originally Posted by VW2010

Don't be scared of medicine. Most will start with metformin, which is not a bad thing once you learn about it. .

The problem is that initially medicine lulls you into false complacency. If borderline case, then you tend to rely on the medicines and dont go for lifestyle changes. I am talking with one sample data which is self

Originally Posted by androdev

It would be nice if members could share their experiences about the Indian foods to avoid and easily available substitutes from diabetes point of view. Internet is full of influencer gyaan which is unreliable and not always relatable to the groceries and recipes that are easily available and manageable at a typical Indian home.

This varies from person to person.
For me,
Restaurant Dosa spikes BS like crazy
Roti somewhat
High protein/Low carb helps a lot.

in the end you need to see what works for you and what does not
And for this monitoring is required

[graaja]

Originally Posted by androdev

It would be nice if members could share their experiences about the Indian foods to avoid and easily available substitutes from diabetes point of view. Internet is full of influencer gyaan which is unreliable and not always relatable to the groceries and recipes that are easily available and manageable at a typical Indian home.

Unfortunately, the Indian standard diet is not diabetes-friendly. Rice or roti is part of staple diet and both these will spike sugar and insulin levels. Like deepak_misra mentioned, the way food affects glucose and insulin levels will vary between individuals based on their insulin resistance, time and quantity of food etc. The general guideline is to cut grains and sugar as much as possible in the diet and replace with vegetables, meat etc.

[suhaas307]

Some of you in Support are already aware of this, but I wish to share with you all my tryst with diabetes:

I am currently 35 years old, and was diagnosed with diabetes when I was 32, back in January 2022.

At the time, I was grappling with an incredible amount of work-related stress and my nutrition + lifestyle was quite poor. I was tipping the scales at 105 in January 2022 when I contracted Covid and just as I was recovering from it, I had to consult a general physician for something routine. The doctor took one look at me and insisted that I get a blood test for glucose readings.

As it turned out, I was highly diabetic. My HbA1c was 9.4%, my fasting blood sugar was 212 and post prandial readings were 298. I was 105 kgs and my trousers were 38”-40” at the waist, absolutely bursting at the seams.

It’s no surprise, as I would indulge in two lunches, an extremely unhealthy and late dinner, and a sweet treat to round it off. Work-outs were an alien concept to me, and 2 flights of stairs would knock me out for the next hour or two.

I had to made drastic changes and I was determined to fix the problem.

Over the next 6 months or so, I started an online workout program with a friend who is a fitness/wellness entrepreneur, and also commenced a strict diet plan.

The workout program comprised of 3 functional training classes that focused on strength training, including calisthenics, weight training and core workouts. The program also integrated 3 offline workouts which includes mobility training and two cardio sessions.

While I was extremely regular with the strength and functional training workouts, I treated the other 3 offline workouts as optional for quite some time before making it a regular feature.

Today, I am 78 kgs, and I recently went shopping for trousers that are now 34” at the waist.

My HbA1c readings are at 5.6%. My fasting blood sugar is at 91 and post-prandial readings are at 113.

It’s been an uphill battle for me and I would like to consider it a battle that I have won!

I currently work out about 5-6 times a week, and even on my rest day, I go on a long 8-10 km walk, time permitting.

I was on medication for a grand total of 3 months since my diabetes diagnosis. After the doctor noticed my HbA1c drop he advised me to stop the medication and continue the workouts and diet plan.

Some key takeaways from my experience:

- Consistency: I never missed a workout unless I was ill or travelling, and even when I was travelling I tried my level best to do the online workout recordings from hotel rooms, or go for an hour long slow-jog / brisk walk. I would stray from my diet once in a while but I would make it a point to get back to it immediately. The take away here is to be consistent!

- Diet: Some may call it a diet, but it’s actually very normal food. I eat everything, including a sweet treat every now and then! I am focused on macros like fibrous foods, proteins and other nutritious foods. I do indulge once or twice every week, but no more than twice. I make it a point to stick to a balanced diet comprising of 33% veggies, 33% carbs and 33% protein.

- Portion control: I now eat about half of what I used to eat when I was diabetic. I never eat till I am full. I stop at about 70% and ride out the hunger. The first few months was extremely challenging, as I would wake up in the middle of the night feeling hungry, but I no longer do, and I am pretty content with the smaller portions.

- Two meals: I normally skip breakfast and have a good nutrition packed lunch at 1 pm, and dinner at 8 pm. It’s important to note that we as human beings eat far too much and too many meals these days. It was acceptable 100 years ago when we were agriculturists, getting baked in the hot sun for a large part of the day. It’s not acceptable now, what with all the desk jobs and generally sedentary lifestyles.

- Sleep: I would barely clock 5-6 hours of sleep. Now, I prioritise rest and sleep as much as my workout and nutrition. Minimum 7 hours and it’s non negotiable!

What keeps me motivated:

1) I do not want to live on medication. Medicines are a crutch. It’s the worst thing you can do to your body. The effects are long lasting and often permanent.

2) I do not want to rely on anyone for physical assistance especially when I get older. I want to be able to walk and move comfortably even when I am 80!

3) I want to drive cars even when I am 70-80 years old!

Oh, the kicker in all this is: I have asthma and bronchitis- it’s hereditary. I have lived with it since I was born. And until about September 2023, I have used an inhaler regularly and sometimes on a daily basis to alleviate the discomfort and breathing difficulties.

Today marks 1 year since I have used an inhaler! My regular workouts and consistent nutrition plan has helped me kick a hereditary disease that I assumed I would have to live with for the rest of my life!

For all those who talk about diets and glucose monitors, carefully curate their meals everyday and go on 5k walks, my advise is: keep it simple. Don’t overthink it, and don’t overcomplicate it. Work hard, exercise regularly, be consistent and keep it simple!

[amitoj]

What a journey you've been on and the results are so impressive! Hats off to you.

Originally Posted by suhaas307

Oh, the kicker in all this is: I have asthma and bronchitis- it’s hereditary. I have lived with it since I was born. And until about September 2023, I have used an inhaler regularly and sometimes on a daily basis to alleviate the discomfort and breathing difficulties.

Today marks 1 year since I have used an inhaler! My regular workouts and consistent nutrition plan has helped me kick a hereditary disease that I assumed I would have to live with for the rest of my life!

This is absolutely fantastic. So much of what ails the human body can be cured by proper nutrition and a non-sedentary lifestyle that it is almost criminal that people are told that a prescription is their best option. 100 years ago when communicable diseases were the main causes of early death, it made sense. But using medicines for curing lifestyle diseases is surely not the best approach.

[deepak_misra]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

Some of you in Support are already aware of this, but I wish to share with you all my tryst with diabetes:

Don’t overthink it, and don’t overcomplicate it. Work hard, exercise regularly, be consistent and keep it simple!

Extremely commendable and inspiring. I like the part about motivation and simplicity. Too often we look at technology as a "silver bullet" to solve a problem which is one of motivation and discipline. As you say, when you have a burning desire to achieve something it is possible
My only sorrow is that I wish I had followed such advise myself in the last 20 years

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by amitoj

What a journey you've been on and the results are so impressive! Hats off to you.

This is absolutely fantastic. So much of what ails the human body can be cured by proper nutrition and a non-sedentary lifestyle that it is almost criminal that people are told that a prescription is their best option. 100 years ago when communicable diseases were the main causes of early death, it made sense. But using medicines for curing lifestyle diseases is surely not the best approach.

Originally Posted by deepak_misra

Extremely commendable and inspiring. I like the part about motivation and simplicity. Too often we look at technology as a "silver bullet" to solve a problem which is one of motivation and discipline. As you say, when you have a burning desire to achieve something it is possible

Thank you, and I couldn't agree more!

Let me also mention, for what its worth, that it wasn't easy at all. I would often lose motivation, be tempted to relapse to my old diet, wake up in the morning wondering if all this is worth the effort since we are all destined to die anyway! We all have one life right? Why don't we just live it large and enjoy it?!

Now, I use the exact same line: We all have one life right? Why don't we enjoy it!

Originally Posted by deepak_misra

My only sorrow is that I wish I had followed such advise myself in the last 20 years

Please do not be disheartened!

It's never too late! Changes can be made even now, and while the results may take longer, and the effort required may be more, it's worth it at the end because results are guaranteed if you trust the process!

Let me tell you a story about my father's diabetes journey:

My father is currently in his mid-60s. He was diagnosed with type-2 diabetes in the most unfortunate way.

While in his mid-30s (I was 5 at the time) we had visited a famous water/theme park. During one of the rides, he sustained a small cut on the lower part of his leg. In a matter of hours, he developed a very high fever and was completely out of commission for the next few days. My memory is hazy because I was just 5 years old, but I remember him frequenting the hospital for several days, and he suddenly turned up from the hospital in a cast and had to use a crutch / walking stick. He was advised amputation of his leg by two doctors, but thankfully recovered before he needed to take such a drastic measure. It took him year to get back to normal life.

At the time, I believe his HbA1C was in the mid 8%. This incident was his wake-up call. From thereon, he managed his diet and nutrition very well and brought down his HbA1C to mid-7s. He maintained a fairly active lifestyle from thereon, walking a minimum 5000 steps in the mornings. It certainly helped, but reversing the disorder seemed impossible to him.

In my late 20s, he noticed that I had also adopted a bad lifestyle and paid ZERO attention to my nutrition. He advised me every day to mend my ways but I did not listen to him. When I was diagnosed with it at age 32, he said it was too late and I will have to now manage it for the rest of my life. But if I do a good job with my nutrition, I will be able to keep it under 8.

Imagine hearing this from your father! I had completely lost faith, but I persevered for what it was worth!

Today, he calls me on a daily basis seeking my advice, and tips on how to get better! Oh, how the turn tables!

For about a year or so, he has been enrolled on a workout/strength-training program and is steadily bringing down his HbA1C numbers. When he started, the numbers had creped up to early 8s. Now, it's back to the mid-7s and he is determined to reverse it. I am sure he will, if he persists with strength training.

Which brings me to my point(s):

1) Age is just a number! While I do agree that I had age on my side, it's never too late! Start now!

2) Balanced diet/nutrition is not enough! Walking 5k-10k is not enough!

Buy yourself a yoga mat, some basic weights and resistance bands, and enroll yourself in one of the many online workout programs available today! Strength and resistance training is crucial in fixing the problem. It will help triggering the response to insulin production in the body and restore the balance that is oh-so crucial!

All you need to do is to invest 1 hour a day, 5 times a week. If that's too much, invest 1 hour every alternate day - three times a week!

The bonus in all this is - you will not need to rely on walking sticks in the twilight of your life. While many folks will be using walking sticks and crutches, you will be able to sit on the floor with your legs folded, playing with your grand children. The actions you take today will pay dividends in the future!

A few top-tips and tricks that I had left out in my earlier post on this thread:

1) CHEW YOUR FOOD! I cannot stress this enough! It's a tip that helped me with so many aspects related to my diet and nutrition! I used to swallow my food, or at best chew about half of it. Now, I take my time with each bite-sized portion and chew it completely before I swallow it. If you eat and swallow your food too quickly, your brain will keep telling you to eat since you don't feel satiated. But if you take your time with each bite, you will feel satiated quicker and won't feel the need to serve yourself more food.

2) Carbs are not the enemy. Eating too much of it, now that's the enemy! When you restrict the portion of carbs, you will enjoy it more. Share that dosa/paneer paratha with your better half / family member.

3) SKIP THE SECOND HELPING: One way to do this is to take as much as you NEED on your plate, and steadily go through it. This of course does not mean that you serve yourself heaps of rice - the key here is portion control!

4) Consume your food the way it is meant to be consumed i.e. salad/veggies first, rice / roti and curry next, and a small sweet treat at the end. The order of consumption is extremely crucial, as vegetables help line your digestive tracts and prepare it to receive carbs. Doing this will help digest your carbs better and will not trigger glucose spikes!

5) Avoid processed sugar in your tea / coffee. If you find this difficult, reduce the 2 spoons to half a spoon, or one spoon at the very most.

[NomadSK]

I'm not a doctor, but here are my inputs after having a discussion with a doctor long time ago, as we run diabetes in our family. The snippets I could remember after a long discussion with the Dr. (Pls correct if somethings are wrong)

Eating sugar doesn't cause diabetes, its a myth, at the most it would give an instant sugar spike, which will be taken care by pancreas to process accordingly for a healthy body. Processed sugar is a killer anyway.

There are 2 types of diabetes - Type-1 & Type-2

Type 1 diabetes is an autoimmune condition that can develop suddenly at anytime and may be caused by genetics and other unknown factors. This is irreversible

Type 2 diabetes often develops over time, with obesity and a lack of exercise as big risk factors. Basically its the life style disease. This is reversible, with healthy lifestyle including diet.

How the Dr explained it to an engineer (naïve head) - A human body needs energy to perform any activity and for that sugar is needed, which pancreas break and produce insulin and distribute to various part of the body to perform the tasks.

For Type-1, the pancreas aren't able to produce the insulin, hence a person is diabetic (permanent condition). Cannot do anything, managing is the only solution.

For Type-2, since its a lifestyle based, a fatty layer is formed on the pancreas, although they are able to produce insulin, but due to this layer formed they are not able to distribute it across the body, hence the condition is temporary, till that fatty layer exist, if a person chooses to change his sedentary/dietary habits for betterment.

Originally Posted by suhaas307

My regular workouts and consistent nutrition plan has helped me kick a hereditary disease that I assumed I would have to live with for the rest of my life!

For all those who talk about diets and glucose monitors, carefully curate their meals everyday and go on 5k walks, my advise is: keep it simple. Don’t overthink it, and don’t overcomplicate it. Work hard, exercise regularly, be consistent and keep it simple!

Perfectly said. Can't agree, the emphasis on exercise is just what is missing in today's age.