[PreludeSH]

If we dont consider the people who avoid paying taxes, with the tax bracket as is most Indians are not needed to pay Income tax.
Given the per capita that we have they wouldn't have to pay taxes.

For the top 100 wealthiest people having a 25% share in GDP, Isnt most of the wealth on paper ? If GDP is real asset how does wealth on paper used to show their share in GDP ?

Also, is the parallel shadow economy somehow not picture in this whole bigger picture ?

[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Basically the 4-5% are slaving away to ensure that the remaining 95-96% are fed.

Err no. Personal income tax is the 3rd largest source of income after GST and Corporate Tax (not counting 'Borrowings & Other Liabilities') for the government.

While the Income tax is definitely a key source of revenue, the government does also have other revenue sources in addition to the top 3 listed above (for e.g. excise duties, customs, etc.). So we tax paying are contributing to the larger pot, but we aren't the only golden goose for the govt.

Sources: 2022 Budget, 2021 Budget

[shankar.balan]

Again, I will probably be hated for this.
But here goes anyway.
1. Abolish Income Taxes completely.
2. Make an absolute flat GST rate of 40% on every single product, consumer goods, automobiles, fuel, food, services etc. (People who consume more will automatically be paying more and contributing more to the economy.)
3. Remove all the subsidies.
4. Have a hard push to systematically reduce population explosion by disincentivising anyone who has more than 1 kid.
5. Abolish cash dealings completely and go 100% digital.
6. Tax all agricultural produce also at the point of sale with GST.
7. Implement compulsory National Service for 2 years for Every single human in India regardless of power, influence, connections etc.
8. Introduce Capital Punishment for Corruption and enforce it strictly.

Implement all this, allow it to take root and watch the economy grow and the per capita income too.

[Gsynch]

Thanks for the detailed analysis, echoes the sentiments most of us have. While the last few decades have been a lost opportunity for India, it's the next few decades which will decide where we want to go. Some estimates suggest that India GDP will double in next 5 years and if it keeps happening for couple of times more, we should in the same league as China today is.

We should also consider the POV that China's economic numbers are not considered to be sacrosanct especially by America.

https://www.barrons.com/articles/chi...us-51642519847

[Sk8r]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Again, I will probably be hated for this.
But here goes anyway.
1. Abolish Income Taxes completely.
2. Make an absolute flat GST rate of 40% on every single product, consumer goods, automobiles, fuel, food, services etc. (People who consume more will automatically be paying more and contributing more to the economy.)
3. Remove all the subsidies.
4. Have a hard push to systematically reduce population explosion by disincentivising anyone who has more than 1 kid.
5. Abolish cash dealings completely and go 100% digital.
6. Tax all agricultural produce also at the point of sale with GST.
7. Implement compulsory National Service for 2 years for Every single human in India regardless of power, influence, connections etc.
8. Introduce Capital Punishment for Corruption and enforce it strictly.

Implement all this, allow it to take root and watch the economy grow and the per capita income too.

Wow, I am slightly confused - are you being sarcastic or you actually meant all these ? If it's the latter, I would suggest you to take a walk along the poorest of the streets and get a reality check of what India is.

[anandhsub]

Originally Posted by pqr

In contrast, wealth distribution in China is more uniform, the average age is lower, and wealth is generated by new-age businesses, as several traditional businesses have strongholds of state-run enterprises in China.

Slightly off topic. what this means is that buy and hold never works in China and it is prudent to exit shares of companies which are becoming too big and might face a state crackdown and look for the next big time

Shanghai Composite is up just 60% from the 2009 lows while nifty is up 335% ( in USD terms)

[EV NXT]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Implement all this, allow it to take root and watch the economy grow and the per capita income too.

Well said. I hope someone implements at least 50% of this. India will be a far better place to live.

[Sran]

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

I also feel we have not been improving our democracy in any meaningful way - we still have first past the post voting system which in itself is flawed,

Every voting type has its problems. Some in America have problems with their Electoral college, some in Germany and Australia have problems with Proportional representation. We have moved beautifully and today we have the best election process in the world with rigid voter verification. Who can forget French presidential election where candidates are forced to go to bank for loan for their campaign finance and banks can literally refuse them financing which puts one candidate on back foot(LePen was refused money by banks).

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

The ‘real’ tax paying population in India is probably less than 4-5%.

In this federal system the states which are generating income and house the tax paying population are few. The states which have large populations but which pay very little by way of taxes are numerous.

Now let the parameters be changed to religion and further divide it between castes and then to rural and urban to get the gotcha moment. Where would we stop the divide and when?

And the procreation/ reproduction rates in the less productive states are way higher than in the productive states.

Only 2 states had increase in TFR between 2016 to 2020, i.e. Kerala and T.N, increased by 13% and 6% respectively.

Its only going to get worse once the representation in Parliament is changed and they start allocating seats based on population.

The four peninsular states of Andhra Pradesh, Tamil Nadu, Karnataka and Kerala account for just over 21 percent of the population, but get 129 Lok Sabha seats. Uttar Pradesh and Bihar, the two most populous states, account for 25.1 percent of the population, but get only 120 seats. Kerala is the same size as Jharkhand and slightly higher population than Assam but gets 20 Lok Sabha seats while Jharkhand and Assam merely get 14 each.

UP, Bihar, Jharkhand, Madhya Pradesh, Rajasthan, Chhattisgarh, Uttarakhand and Haryana – account for nearly 45 percent of the population, but they get only 214 seats between them. If Lok Sabha seats had gone by population, they should have got at least 241 seats – that’s 37 seats less than what they now get. The 3 biggest states by population in India (UP, Bihar and Maharashtra) are under-represented in the Lok Sabha by as many as 31 seats, or 5.7% of the 543 elected Lok Sabha seats.

On average, for every Lok Sabha seat allocated to Andhra Pradesh, the elector population (not to be confused with the total population) is around 1,576,238. For Maharashtra, it is 1,847,436. For Assam it is 1,575,004. For Bihar, it is 1,780,407. For Gujarat, it is 1,736,629. For Karnataka, it is 1,824,804. For Kerala, it is 1,310,241. For Madhya Pradesh, it is 17,88,533. For Rajasthan, it is 19,58,232. For Tamil Nadu, it is 1,536,970. For West Bengal, it is 1,666,697, and lastly, for Uttar Pradesh, it is 1,826,682.

We can see the that peninsular states have happily enjoyed more MP's for decades.

Ideally representation should be according to contribution by way of taxes and knowledge, not just ‘bodies’.

Meaning going back to how it was during British Raj. On basis of education, on basis of property and taxation? Do work for betterment of society can only be done by rich and educated, poor's and uneducated aren't devoid of empathy.

The LS seat distribution by ongoing arrangement.

[v1p3r]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Again, I will probably be hated for this.
But here goes anyway.
1. Abolish Income Taxes completely.
2. Make an absolute flat GST rate of 40% on every single product, consumer goods, automobiles, fuel, food, services etc. (People who consume more will automatically be paying more and contributing more to the economy.)
3. Remove all the subsidies.
4. Have a hard push to systematically reduce population explosion by disincentivising anyone who has more than 1 kid.
5. Abolish cash dealings completely and go 100% digital.
6. Tax all agricultural produce also at the point of sale with GST.
7. Implement compulsory National Service for 2 years for Every single human in India regardless of power, influence, connections etc.
8. Introduce Capital Punishment for Corruption and enforce it strictly.

I apologise for my tone, because you are a well-learned man and I respect your posts. However, in this case, all I can see is 'let them eat cake'. You want to make people who can barely afford a meal pay 40% GST on each item? You want to remove subsidies - free education and healthcare - for these same people? I completely agree with 5,6, 7 but the rest of them are so far off that it seems more like you're trolling us all.

Originally Posted by Sran

Only 2 states had increase in TFR between 2016 to 2020, i.e. Kerala and T.N, increased by 13% and 6% respectively.

What about from 1947 to 2016? When quoting statistics, it is best to quote them in their entirery, lest there be confusion.

Originally Posted by Sran

The four peninsular states of Andhra Pradesh, Tamil Nadu, Karnataka and Kerala account for just over 21 percent of the population, but get 129 Lok Sabha seats....
...
We can see the that peninsular states have happily enjoyed more MP's for decades.

The LS seats were notified on the basis of the existing population in 1952. If the southern states now have more MPs and thus representation per capita, it is because they enjoyed the fruits of planning and human development. The BIMARU states are victims of their own doing.

Since the 1951 census (until 2011), the south Indian peninsular states have grown at a slower pace compared to the BIMARU states:
- Kerala 2.4x, undivided AP 2.7x, Tamil Nadu 2.4x, Karnataka 3.1x
- Rajasthan 4.3x, MP, 3.9x, UP 3.3x, Bihar 3.6x, Jharkhand and Chhatisgarh both 3.4x.

The difference is staggering. MH is the only large non-BIMARU state with similar population growth, unsurprising considering MH is either very poor in large parts (rural) or experiences mass migration (BOM).

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by Sran

We have moved beautifully and today we have the best election process in the world with rigid voter verification.

Even ignoring the fact that "first past the post" voting system is inherently flawed, EC is a shadow of its former self, the same institution which voided a PM's election in the yesteryears cant even decide an election date without being influenced, money and muscle power still influence election outcomes, electoral participation is still low, voters are still victimised via booth and constituency profiling, a large number of MP's still have criminal backgrounds, electoral funding has been deliberately made opaque via electoral bonds which creates all sorts of fundamental issues including black money in the elections, media is manipulated or is manipulating either via money or intimidation, hate speeches by candidates are more rampant than ever, misuse of caste and religion. Am I missing something about "the best elections process in the world"?

As for "rigid voter verification" - its like saying purer oxygen to breathe. Its not a sufficient condition, it is a necessary condition to even conduct elections. Even then there are large scale issues with voter verification before every election.

[UD17]

Originally Posted by pqr

[b]

Not every Indian is poor. According to Forbes magazine, the wealth of the top 100 super-rich Indians in 2022 was nearly $ 800 billion. In comparison, the top 100 richest Chinese have a combined fortune of $ 907 billion.

Thanks for the detailed insights. Its appalling to see the wealth distribution between India and China. All the answers are hidden in these two graphs. The reach of wealth to bigger population is what making China so relevant in overall people's growth perspective and this is also answer to our low per capita income.

Again thanks for taking efforts to put down the detailed analysis.

[srini1785]

We are definitely going up up and away.

NEW IT SLABS UNVEILED IN BUDGET 2023

* No Income tax up to 7 L on personal income.

* 5% tax on income above 9L.

EDIT : Misunderstanding. Only Tax slabs changed.