[srh]

I am not sure if folks are doing the calculations correctly.

Any credit card (no matter how premium) escalates the charges by around 4% on various pretext.

Book my forex is literally zero cost for a Fx card except for INR 50 netbanking fees and GST. For cash delivery at home, it comes to around 1.65%.

When you are buying Fx worth at least a lakh or more, the difference between 4% and 1.6% can be substantial.

My personal experience with bookmyforex has been decent. Cash was delivered within 24 hours. Card was delivered within 4 hours but activation/ loading took 36 hours. But then I generally plan/ purchase in advance. So 36 hours is decent for me. Haven't tried reloading the card yet. Will need to see how that goes.

[varkey]

Originally Posted by Naetik30

You are comparing credit card conversion rate against the currency conversion rate.

For example, today's rates from HDFC are here - https://www.hdfcbank.com/content/bbp...tent/rates.pdf

USD-INR Forex card purchase - INR 83.31
USD-INR currency purchase - INR 83.87

On top of this, you will pay markup of 1% or 2% if you used HDFC credit card.


From Bookmyforex -

USD-INR Forex card purchase - INR 81.87
USD-INR currency purchase - INR 83.24

In both cases bookmyforex rates are better. But there are obvious issues with bookmyforex with customer support.

Actually, when using a credit/debit card issued by Visa or MasterCard, you need to check the Visa or MasterCard exchange rates, not the bank's exchange rate.

You can check it at the below links

Visa - https://www.visa.co.in/support/consu...alculator.html
MasterCard - https://www.mastercard.us/en-us/pers...-currency.html

Today's rate is

Visa - 1 USD = 81.854918 INR
MasterCard - 1 USD = 81.831 INR

The above rate is more or less inline with BookMyForex rates you quoted.

Now comes the currency conversion fees charged by the bank, this is where you'd need to opt for a card which has the lowest markup.

Most of the premium HDFC credit cards provide it at 2% + GST, however you can opt in to their Global Value Program which provides a 1% cash back, making the markup 1.36% (GST on the 2% which is not reversed).
On top of this you'd get the reward points of the card, which would mostly nullify this markup and depending on the card, you might be even net positive.
Another card is OneCard issued by BoB, which has a markup of 1% + GST.

If looking for a debit/prepaid card, an option is to opt for a forex card from Niyo, which does zero markup ie the Visa exchange rate as-is. Neo banking providers like Jupiter also provides Zero Forex markup.

I have done quite a few international trips and the above combination has helped a lot. No need to worry about Forex cards at all as you get similar rates with this approach. Also you need to convert only what you actually need, at the time of purchase rather than having excess currency converted which again need to be converted back to INR after the trip, losing money in the process.
If using Niyo, you can even withdraw funds at an ATM at zero markup. There is a Rs 200 charge for ATM withdrawals though. I personally have a Niyo IDFC product that was discontinued for new accounts, but mine is still operational. This card offers free ATM withdrawals too, ATM operator charges if any are extra (in some countries the ATM operator charges a fee, for example in Vietnam)

Originally Posted by srh

Book my forex is literally zero cost for a Fx card except for INR 50 netbanking fees and GST. For cash delivery at home, it comes to around 1.65%.

When you are buying Fx worth at least a lakh or more, the difference between 4% and 1.6% can be substantial.

This is not really true, if you choose the credit/debit card correctly, the effective markup is 0 or even net positive.

[fiat_tarun]

Originally Posted by Naetik30

...

For example, today's rates from HDFC are here - https://www.hdfcbank.com/content/bbp...tent/rates.pdf

USD-INR Forex card purchase - INR 83.31
USD-INR currency purchase - INR 83.87

On top of this, you will pay markup of 1% or 2% if you used HDFC credit card.

...

For credit card transactions, the rate applied is the market rate for that day and not the forex card rate. For e.g., my most recent F1 TV transaction in USD was charged at 82.80 against the market rate of 82.77 on 24th Feb.'23.

Of course the 1-2% charge over this (depending on the card)+ GST is an additional cost.

I was quite surprised to see the sell / unload rate also quite good on Bookmyforex. I shall make a comparison on credit card vs forex card before my next trip.

[cdrajeevkumar]

In all my international travels I’ve never ventured to risk getting my currency / card from these fly-by-night operators! It has always been Thomas Cook who have delivered both currency and card (activation in few hours)! They also have toll free numbers to call in case of emergencies!!

Note: I’m not promoting Thomas Cook here but only citing my appreciation for their service

[charanreddy]

Same experience here and was even more horrible for me. The forex card got delivered late and was not activated till I landed in Frankfurt. I had asked for currency as well and despite 10s of calls and many 30 min wait times, I got a std response. “Sir it’s on the way”. And finally just before 6 hrs of my flight departure (7 PM ) they said sorry sir no supply available :( a bunch of crooks and incompetent Morons run that company ..

[flashgo]

Originally Posted by varkey

Actually, when using a credit/debit card issued by Visa or MasterCard, you need to check the Visa or MasterCard exchange rates, not the bank's exchange rate.

You can check it at the below links

Visa - https://www.visa.co.in/support/consu...alculator.html
MasterCard - https://www.mastercard.us/en-us/pers...-currency.html

Today's rate is

Visa - 1 USD = 81.854918 INR
MasterCard - 1 USD = 81.831 INR

The above rate is more or less inline with BookMyForex rates you quoted.

Now comes the currency conversion fees charged by the bank, this is where you'd need to opt for a card which has the lowest markup.

Most of the premium HDFC credit cards provide it at 2% + GST, however you can opt in to their Global Value Program which provides a 1% cash back, making the markup 1.36% (GST on the 2% which is not reversed).
On top of this you'd get the reward points of the card, which would mostly nullify this markup and depending on the card, you might be even net positive.
Another card is OneCard issued by BoB, which has a markup of 1% + GST.

If looking for a debit/prepaid card, an option is to opt for a forex card from Niyo, which does zero markup ie the Visa exchange rate as-is. Neo banking providers like Jupiter also provides Zero Forex markup.

I have done quite a few international trips and the above combination has helped a lot. No need to worry about Forex cards at all as you get similar rates with this approach. Also you need to convert only what you actually need, at the time of purchase rather than having excess currency converted which again need to be converted back to INR after the trip, losing money in the process.
If using Niyo, you can even withdraw funds at an ATM at zero markup. There is a Rs 200 charge for ATM withdrawals though. I personally have a Niyo IDFC product that was discontinued for new accounts, but mine is still operational. This card offers free ATM withdrawals too, ATM operator charges if any are extra (in some countries the ATM operator charges a fee, for example in Vietnam)



This is not really true, if you choose the credit/debit card correctly, the effective markup is 0 or even net positive.

Great to know that you are a fellow niyo idfc user too. i thought the old cards were charged 150+gst per withdrawal. is it not? unfortunately i could not travel abroad after taking the card but i was able to do all the international online transactions easily. also, it would be really helpful to let me know what countries you have used the card in and your experience.

[chandu]

Originally Posted by Naetik30

As I mentioned, cash is always costly than forex card rates. You are comparing credit card conversion rate against the currency conversion rate.

I have used bookmyforex multiple times over the past 5 years or so, dont remember exactly when I started using them, probably 2018 or 2017. They have been excellent every time except my latest trip to the US, where the initial experience was great as usual but when I needed to reload when abroad. then all bets were off, I used their website, placed the order, paid the money and then just waited as it took far more than the 24hrs (72 hrs maybe) that they promised. Luckily I had 2 cards for me and my wife and we did not fall short. But, that was the only issue in an otherwise good service record. Next time, i will plan ahead and take a larger amount and sell it back when I return.
They offer excellent rates, as good as or better than the rates that we get as a company doing business transactions all the time. They are pretty much the same as the inter-bank rates. They are very transparent with their rates and other charges.
One thing you have to be aware of is that you should not use BMF on a last minute purchase, do it when you have 2 or 3 days available before your trip.

My relationship manager with Axis has tried to match rates but has never been able to do it. Their rates are typically a rupee or more than bmf.
The rates on my premium credit card are atrocious compared to BMF rates, typically these are the "card" rates without any discounts. Plus they add on a 3.5% surcharge that has supposedly been mandated by RBI.

[varkey]

Originally Posted by flashgo

Great to know that you are a fellow niyo idfc user too. i thought the old cards were charged 150+gst per withdrawal. is it not? unfortunately i could not travel abroad after taking the card but i was able to do all the international online transactions easily. also, it would be really helpful to let me know what countries you have used the card in and your experience.

I was previously using the Niyo DCB card while international ATM withdrawals were free, I think back in 2019. This card I have used in few countries in Europe (France, Sweden, Denmark, Germany) and UAE, worked as expected without any conversion fees and ATM withdrawal fees. They have increased the ATM withdrawal fee to 150 + tax for this variant now.

Then in 2020 I opened the Niyo IDFC account. I have so far used it in Maldives (only with a POS machine), Vietnam and Malaysia. My last usage was in August 2022, and ATM withdrawals remained free. I verified the exchange rate applied and it was exactly the same as what the Visa Exchange Rate calculator displayed. In Vietnam, most ATM operators charged a fee (and the fee varies between operators), but there were no charges from Niyo/IDFC.

After Niyo-IDFC partnership ended, now the account is entirely managed through IDFC and there is no real documented page I could find with the schedule of charges, however I can confirm that as of August 2022 international ATM withdrawals were free.

[flashgo]

Mod note: Trimming Quoted post, please avoid quoting entire large post for short replies. Thanks.

Originally Posted by varkey

I was previously using the Niyo DCB card while international ATM withdrawals were free, I think back in 2019.
=====
After Niyo-IDFC partnership ended, now the account is entirely managed through IDFC and there is no real documented page I could find with the schedule of charges, however I can confirm that as of August 2022 international ATM withdrawals were free.

Thank you for the detailed reply. I do have the same Niyo DCB card and yes it says 150+GST now. I just remembered that my idfc bank AC is niyo too. i have this niyo idfc debit card. but does it not have a little bit of markup? i thought it had 1% or something. really glad to know that it is free to withdraw using that! my brother has the same niyo DCB card and he is traveling to Vietnam next week. can you please tell me which ATMs have lower withdrawal fee? it would be really helpful. also i think you can only withdraw INR equivalent of 17000/ transaction. is that true in all the cases?

[Totoro11]

Originally Posted by varkey

If looking for a debit/prepaid card, an option is to opt for a forex card from Niyo, which does zero markup ie the Visa exchange rate as-is. Neo banking providers like Jupiter also provides Zero Forex markup.

If using Niyo, you can even withdraw funds at an ATM at zero markup. There is a Rs 200 charge for ATM withdrawals though. I personally have a Niyo IDFC product that was discontinued for new accounts, but mine is still operational. This card offers free ATM withdrawals too, ATM operator charges if any are extra (in some countries the ATM operator charges a fee, for example in Vietnam)

Originally Posted by flashgo

Thank you for the detailed reply. I do have the same Niyo DCB card and yes it says 150+GST now. I just remembered that my idfc bank AC is niyo too. i have this niyo idfc debit card. but does it not have a little bit of markup? i thought it had 1% or something.

I was recommended the Niyo Debit card by a colleague while on an office trip abroad. Niyo now operates via a tie-up with State Bank of Mauritius (SBM). You are essentially opening a savings a/c from which you can withdraw internationally at zero markup. The on-boarding process is smooth and you should provision a time of around 4-7 days for the card to reach you. If you are a frequent traveler or know sufficiently well in advance about an upcoming trip, you will have enough time to get this done.

Once you have the account, you can use UPI or add it as beneficiary in your regular account to transfer money as needed. They give ~6% interest on savings balance plus some lounge access. Recently there was some issue with international cash withdrawal due to dispute between RBI & SBM but i think that is resolved now (POS & E-commerce usage continued as usual during that time).

For official expenses, I use Thomas Cook card & cash (delivered at home) and keep my HDFC debit card for emergency use.

[tejas08]

Originally Posted by srh

Any credit card (no matter how premium) escalates the charges by around 4% on various pretext.

Book my forex is literally zero cost for a Fx card except for INR 50 netbanking fees and GST. For cash delivery at home, it comes to around 1.65%.

When you are buying Fx worth at least a lakh or more, the difference between 4% and 1.6% can be substantial.

Too much generalization. There are a lot of Credit Cards which offer a lot lower Forex Mark-up and then there are some which offer good reward rate alongwith low forex mark-up.

I used Axis Reserve on my recent trip to USA. Did not carry any forex or forex card. Everything spent on Credit card. The icing on the cake - 12 Airmiles per Rs. 100 spent in Forex against an FCY or 1.77%. So 10+% savings on Forex Spends.

The annual fee for such cards are high and that's why most people end up ignoring these cards.

I spent about 4 Lacs in Forex thru the trip and ended up earning 40,000 Miles. Just to give an idea about how much these are worth, I booked $600 worth domestic flight tickets in USA for less than the number of miles earned on those forex transactions.

[superbad]

I tried using Bookmyforex a few years ago. They promised 2 day delivery of my desired currency. I made the payment but they inordinately delayed the delivery. I Cancelled the payment & was charged some percentage as cancellation fees. Upon pointing it out to their customer care, they said I had cancelled from my end hence they are deducting cancellation charge. I countered saying you are forcing me to cancel by not delivering the currency on time before my foreign trip (thus reneging on their earlier promise of 2 day delivery). Thankfully, sense prevailed & they refunded the entire amount to me. Since then, I've gone on a few foreign trips & each time I've taken hard cash from brick and mortar forex stores near my area. It is slightly more expensive but reliable.

[Naetik30]

Originally Posted by varkey

You can check it at the below links

Visa - https://www.visa.co.in/support/consu...alculator.html
MasterCard - https://www.mastercard.us/en-us/pers...-currency.html

Today's rate is

Visa - 1 USD = 81.854918 INR
MasterCard - 1 USD = 81.831 INR

The above rate is more or less inline with BookMyForex rates you quoted.

Thanks for pointing this out. I have enrolled for Global Value program with HDFC since 2018 or 2019 and it is definitely good. But you do need forex currency especially in the US and EU. No way around it. And a forex card does help in these cases either to pay or withdraw cash.

Originally Posted by cdrajeevkumar

In all my international travels I’ve never ventured to risk getting my currency / card from these fly-by-night operators! It has always been Thomas Cook who have delivered both currency and card (activation in few hours)! They also have toll free numbers to call in case of emergencies!!

Note: I’m not promoting Thomas Cook here but only citing my appreciation for their service

For my last trip to the US in Feb/March 2023, I had Thomas Cook card. I tried calling up the customer care number mentioned on the kit and the number did not exist . But thankfully the card worked fine and did not have any issues.

Originally Posted by superbad

I tried using Bookmyforex a few years ago. They promised 2 day delivery of my desired currency. I made the payment but they inordinately delayed the delivery. I Cancelled the payment & was charged some percentage as cancellation fees. Upon pointing it out to their customer care, they said I had cancelled from my end hence they are deducting cancellation charge.

My understanding of their business model - they are basically a market place for forex currency. They have tie ups with multiple vendors in a city and have them deliver the forex currency to customers.

For card - they have a tie up with Yes Bank. They use the vendors in cities to deliver the card and work with Yes Bank for activating and loading the cards. Basically, they are an intermediary and nothing more. Nothing wrong with the model. But not sure if the delays are because of BookMyForex not transferring funds from customer to yesBank on time (or) due to the sloppiness of YesBank.

In my case atleast, the BookMyForex customer care clearly said it was due to servers of yes bank going down. But looking at twitter mentions of @bookmyforex there are tons of unhappy customers. And many of them stuck in foreign locations for want of money.

[varkey]

Originally Posted by Naetik30

But you do need forex currency especially in the US and EU. No way around it. And a forex card does help in these cases either to pay or withdraw cash.

Just curious, in EU and US which are the places that you've seen where a credit/debit card cannot be used but a "forex" card works? For non-cash transactions.

The physical currency for cash purchases, I completely agree, but for that could just withdraw using a debit card right? Provided you have a savings account/debit card which charges zero cross currency fee (similar to Niyo SBM for example).

Is there any other advantages of having a "forex card" that I am missing?

Originally Posted by flashgo

but does it not have a little bit of markup? i thought it had 1% or something.

Niyo IDFC card has zero markup. You can see in the below screenshots, this was a transaction of 619 THB (Thai Bhat), the exchange rate applied matches exactly what is shown in the Visa exchange rate calculator for that day with no markup. I'd have liked if IDFC statement showed the amount in the foreign currency as well for our records, but it only shows the final converted INR value.



IDFC in general (for all their other debit cards) do not charge an international ATM withdrawal fee, the markup is 2% for their other products, but in this Niyo variant, it remains 0. I guess once IDFC starts charging an international ATM withdrawal fee, it might start applying to this as well, but until then it should be free.

Originally Posted by flashgo

my brother has the same niyo DCB card and he is traveling to Vietnam next week. can you please tell me which ATMs have lower withdrawal fee? it would be really helpful. also i think you can only withdraw INR equivalent of 17000/ transaction. is that true in all the cases?

Note that the DCB variant has a Rs 150 + tax ATM withdrawal fee.

I am not sure of the Rs 17000 ATM withdrawal limit though, my cash withdrawals were mostly below that in a single transaction, so never really run into it. Is this documented somewhere?

In Vietnam, TPBank ATMs do not charge any fee, I used it quite a few times in Hanoi. Other bank ATMs charge between 22000 VND to 50000 VND per withdrawal.

[Naetik30]

Originally Posted by varkey

Just curious, in EU and US which are the places that you've seen where a credit/debit card cannot be used but a "forex" card works? For non-cash transactions.

The physical currency for cash purchases, I completely agree, but for that could just withdraw using a debit card right? Provided you have a savings account/debit card which charges zero cross currency fee (similar to Niyo SBM for example).

Is there any other advantages of having a "forex card" that I am missing?

If you are happy using your credit or debit card. Great. Nothing like it.
In my case I prefer a forex card as default (+ credit card as backup). The reasons are -

1. My forex rate is fixed as on date of purchase of forex. No exchange rate shock. In case you use the credit/debit card the rates on date of purchase will be in effect. This can be both a pro and a con. But based on past few years data, it is always INR that depreciates.

2. If I have any currency or forex in card remaining I can make a small profit on sale (as the INR has generally depreciated).

3. As a rule I avoid using my debit cards in most places. This is a safety measure. I am OK to use credit card as any loss would be within max credit limit. But in case of debit card you risk loosing everything in the savings account with really no way to get it back. I have been subject to some fraud about 18 years back. So I learned the lesson the hard way.

4. I guess in most cases the credit and debit card charges are higher than the forex card charges (unless you have a premium card with good points earning capabilities).