[subraiyr]

Dear All

Hope everyone is having a super duper Monday. I wanted to pick the brains of some of you folks who have walked through the situation below

I started my career as an entrepreneur. I started my factory and ran it for about 5 years. It was a small-scale industry, doing job work for auto ancillaries. This was way back in the early 90s when the Padminis and Contessas were ruling the roost. I employed less than 20 keeping in mind the impact of PF and other benefits and ran it well for 5 years. Profits were ok, not great as one would envisage. Having bought some old lathes and millers I was soon overtaken by CNC machines. Also, the urge to educate increased and I went on to do my post graduation in MBA

I then dabbled in sales but did not enjoy it much. Maybe it was because I was too young, had a big ego, and was not thick-skinned. Also, I ended up in the computer industry selling boxes to CFM companies. My beat was north of Madras and the crowd was very different from what I encountered in my earlier life. I ended up selling ERP solutions but soon the learning bug bit and I moved to Bangalore for another post-graduation. I completed the course and 5 of us together created a brilliant business plan for a group bargain model in the late 90s. This was new to India, but we did not craft it properly for investors to seed it and the idea bit the dust. In the course of this, I met a serial entrepreneur who was starting a new venture and joined him in the startup. 13 years later the firm became big, went through IPOs and acquisitions, and is now a leading BPO firm

I shifted my focus to consulting and for the last 11+ years have been working for one of the Big 4. Work has been good, enriching for sure. Over time though the culture has taken a beating and there is a lot of toxicity in the environment. In the interim, I helped Missus set up her own business in talent acquisition and today our firm is one of the biggest in the BFSI space for talent acquisition in India. We are still in the mode of expansion and hopefully, revenues should move further south. While this has been happening, I also ventured into the space of Life Coaching. I am yet to be certified, but I have over 150+ hours of coaching people and it has helped some of the folks I have been working with in this space. I also love teaching and i find myself drawn more towards it after having spent the last few years teaching children in an unofficial manner.

I have crossed by mid-mark age barrier and am now on the other side of 50. At the beginning of the year, I set up some time to go through what I want to do with my life in the upcoming years. It became clear to me that I enjoy constructive work wherein my work contributes to society even in a small way. I also realized that I cannot remain idle, sit at home eat and sleep. Financially while we are fine, there is always a little bit of apprehension in the back of my mind if it is enough. Barring the usual expenses, one of the things we enjoy is traveling to different destinations and I would like to continue my travels although restrict it to a couple of destinations every year. We have a son who is in his second half of schooling and will finish school in the next 5 years.

Given all of this, my questions border around the following

1. When is the right time to move out of the corporate world? The decision need not be based on economics but should be more qualitative
2. Have any of you done this in your life and if so, what was your thought process, what went through your mind, the apprehensions and the joy and the freedom that came with it
3. How did it affect your family, friends and dear ones
4. What should I be aware of when I decide to move out

While these are specifics, I would like to get different perspectives from folks around here

Thanks in advance

Dear Mods - Please merge if there is already a thread addressing this issue. I did search and found a thread on retirement planning, but that was more tuned to financial information

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by subraiyr

Given all of this, my questions border around the following

1. When is the right time to move out of the corporate world? The decision need not be based on economics but should be more qualitative
2. Have any of you done this in your life and if so, what was your thought process, what went through your mind, the apprehensions and the joy and the freedom that came with it
3. How did it affect your family, friends and dear ones
4. What should I be aware of when I decide to move out

While these are specifics, I would like to get different perspectives from folks around here

Interesting stage of life and it is good for you that you are thinking what next 3, 5 or 10 years in advance. For far too many of us retirement happens one day and most, though not all, are quite unprepared for it emotionally and at times financially. I'll stay with the non-financial side of the story as that is your request and in any case I am no financial expert.

2. Have any of you done this in your life and if so, what was your thought process, what went through your mind, the apprehensions and the joy and the freedom that came with it

The corporate world with a well known logo and title on your visiting card gives you a lot more than an income - it gives you status, an identity, an acceptance by your peers and a sense of self respect. Once you are on your own whether as a life coach or a retired man doing social service these intangibles are the ones you will miss the most. It happens to the best of us. I exited my business in a planned fashion 6 years ago and got going with a social impact project that was already on its way plus I joined a few Boards of well known companies and yet it took me 18 months to come to terms that now I was a lesser animal in the business world. Also, the second career took time to take off and in the first several months I felt very vulnerable and while many continued to treat me with respect for the past some did not. With the years my second career has blossomed into something big and meaningful and the sun shines again.

3. How did it affect your family, friends and dear ones

The family has to support you. Biggest support has to come from the spouse. I was fortunate in this regard mainly because she was on board while the thought process was on. Some nosy neighbours and relatives will wag their tongues keen to guess the 'real story' . My father-in-law who was still alive then and into his 90s thought it was a disastrous decision and worried for his grand children!

1. When is the right time to move out of the corporate world? The decision need not be based on economics but should be more qualitative

Do this only when you are financially secure and have a real alternative career/occupation/activity to jump onto. At least sow the seeds of that second career now while you are still in the saddle. Tomorrow at least some of your associates and contacts won't give you the time of the day.

4. What should I be aware of when I decide to move out

It is always tougher than you think. It helps us to grow! It opens our eyes as to how lonely we are without a nice logo on our visiting cards.

Once you have built yourself an alternate career/occupation/activity your internal frequency changes and you will never want to go back to the corporate world.

Hope this helps. Best of luck.

[Newtown]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Once you have built yourself an alternate career/occupation/activity your internal frequency changes and you will never want to go back to the corporate world.

I have always had this one nagging question in my head. Can one register a company/start a business of their own WHILE working at a corporate job?

I keep hearing this thing about Dual Employment and hence concerned that my organization may pull me up for it or worse kick me out. I don't know the legalities of doing this and how a court of law views it.

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by Newtown

I have always had this one nagging question in my head. Can one register a company/start a business of their own WHILE working at a corporate job?

Forming a company and becoming a non executive director in it cannot be termed employment. Depending on who your employer is and what your employment contracts exact wordings are you can do this and keep them informed {as opposed to taking their permission}. The courts will not consider a non-executive director's position as an employment. Of course, the substantial matter is as to what activity you will pursue in that company, how much time you will devote to it, and if it is in direct competition with your employer.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

The corporate world with a well known logo and title on your visiting card gives you a lot more than an income - it gives you status... these intangibles are the ones you will miss the most.

Not disagreeing, but giving a different perspective:

I think apart from professions that make an impact on other people- like a teacher, doctor or something like that, it doesn't matter.

I for one will not miss whatever title I have when I retire (still about a decade and a half to go for that...hopefully!), simply because given my industry, what I do is basically making some rich folks in a foreign country...richer. Most of our jobs probably have some beneficiary like that at the end/top of the food chain.

Not being ungrateful- I like my job, great conditions, good money. (And I'm no saint, I'm not likely to quit and join an NGO either.) That's not the point I'm making. All I'm saying is we are replaceable and won't be missed. Either by the company (the IT industry gives us frequent and blatant reminders of that fact!) or by society. Again, no complaints- the job finances my life and that's all I need from it. But I think that consideration of job-related status shouldn't stop one from leaving the rat race, IF one is financially able to.

Recently got some perspective on that. Got to interact with/observe two senior doctors over a period of a few days in a hospital setting. One had left teaching and went into private practice, one stayed on with the teaching profession and retired recently. The one who had remained a teacher was so obviously respected and loved. Former students, hospital staff, some famous doctors, all stopped to talk, greet and pay their respects.

I think only such professions, rather "callings", really mean something in terms of 'status'. (And it's a pity we have a system that compensates such vital functions worse than say "AVP at Google".) The rest are jobs. Some great jobs, no doubt, but nothing that should become a chain that stops you from walking away when you want to (again, IF financially viable!).

(Again, just a different perspective.)

[anjan_c2007]

Originally Posted by subraiyr

Given all of this, my questions border around the following

1. When is the right time to move out of the corporate world? The decision need not be based on economics but should be more qualitative
2. Have any of you done this in your life and if so, what was your thought process, what went through your mind, the apprehensions and the joy and the freedom that came with it
3. How did it affect your family, friends and dear ones
4. What should I be aware of when I decide to move out

While these are specifics, I would like to get different perspectives from folks around here

The questions answered purely according to my personal views:-

Ans 1: It's purely personal as per your and your family's decision. There are no set of written or unwritten rules. Can be till ages of 30/80/90 or till the last day we live.

Ans 2: Never personally experienced any exit from the corporate world.

Ans 3: Moving out of the corporate world as and when one desires is elaborated in my Ans 1. But till one is fit and healthy one should switch over to any other field /profession/ job wherever he can remain active, productive and at the same time earn handsomely. Never ever sit idle at home, totally relinquishing all your preoccupations. This has some disadvantages and especially our family members in most cases would always prefer that we are preoccupied.

Ans 4: Preplan the next halt wherever, careerwise as a switchover to any other suitable field/profession/job that you can enjoy and at the same time earn. This needs to be fully commensurate with the time and energy you can devote to it, at your age and with your present physical condition.

"Retirement" is not a suitable word for anyone. It should be substituted by "switching over to a new phase of life". Once anyone treats himself as retired and begins his innings resting at home on the armchair and bed, senility sets in. Health issues follow.

Just remember that Sh Ram Jethmalani was working till he attained the age of 95. There are umpteen similar examples of others in various professions who have worked as 80 plus and 90 plus year olds or till their last breath. If we are busy with our profession or job during our older ages, we remain agile with the generation of adrenaline and also physically fit. Our brains also remain fertile.

Elaborating the above anecdote on Sh Ram Jethmalani, then aged 93, during August 2016 had once retorted to a poser to him by the then Chief Justice, Supreme Court, Sh T.S. Thakur who had while hearing his arguments asked him, "when are you going to retire?"

Sh Ram Jethmalani replied, "Why is my lord asking when I am going to die?"

There was silence from the Bench. And the veteran advocate had also said "Retirement is for judges, not for lawyers," which has not been reported in this newslink below.

Finding Jethmalani representing advocate MM Kashyap, who is facing eviction from the chamber allotted to him by the Supreme Court, a bench headed by Chief Justice TS Thakur asked, “When are you going to retire?” Without batting an eyelid, the nonagenarian sought an elaboration of the question by asking, “Why is my lord asking when I am going to die?” The bench’s inquisitiveness about Jethmalani’s professional longevity evaporated with the unparalleled criminal lawyer’s invocation of death.

Full news:-

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...w/53819433.cms

[subraiyr]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

The corporate world with a well known logo and title on your visiting card gives you a lot more than an income - it gives you status, an identity, an acceptance by your peers and a sense of self respect.

I completely agree. I was a big fish in a small pond and when I moved into consulting became a rather small fish in a big pond. Initial year was difficult to accept. But over a period of time, I managed it. Now I am in a position where I work behind the scenes and get things done rather than step in front for the kudoos. However, I agree when you look at the bigger picture. When it comes to getting another insurance policy, a credit card, a car loan etc, you end up in the quagmire of designations. Also, peer conversations can tend to become a difficult when you are realize you are a king without a kingdom and therefore you are equal to the common man

The family has to support you. Biggest support has to come from the spouse.

On this I am absolutely fortunate that Missus is aligned. Infact, I would say she is pushing me to come on full time into her business. I worry from a financial perspective - steady income vs risk based income

Once you have built yourself an alternate career/occupation/activity your internal frequency changes and you will never want to go back to the corporate world.

I can see this happening with Missus. She worked a decade in sales with some insurance firms and now on her own she says there is no looking back

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by subraiyr

Also, peer conversations can tend to become a difficult when you are realize you are a king without a kingdom and therefore you are equal to the common man

Get yourself and your family medical insurance cover independent of your employer. Do it early rather than late. Make sure the family can live on your spouses income while your new occupation clutches in - may take a year or two or more. Best of luck.

[subraiyr]

Originally Posted by Newtown

I have always had this one nagging question in my head. Can one register a company/start a business of their own WHILE working at a corporate job?

I keep hearing this thing about Dual Employment and hence concerned that my organization may pull me up for it or worse kick me out. I don't know the legalities of doing this and how a court of law views it.

Dual employment is definitely a concern. There are probably a number of guidelines associated with it.

In my case, my firm had a checklist or rather an assessment which I had to take. The assessment had a number of call outs, but essentially it focussed on a few things
1. Are you starting a competing business
2. Are you going to utilize the firm's name, reputation, goodwill to support your business growth
3. Is your business going to have a revenue upwards of $250mn
4. Would you be able to work fulltime (8 hours) for your current employer and will the new business impact your work hours
5. Is it a family owned business

This was a self assessment post which the firm gave me thumbs up to go ahead and become a director in my own firm.

However, I am sure the legal minds here are better informed to respond to your query

[vigsom]

Originally Posted by subraiyr

1. When is the right time to move out of the corporate world? The decision need not be based on economics but should be more qualitative
2. Have any of you done this in your life and if so, what was your thought process, what went through your mind, the apprehensions and the joy and the freedom that came with it
3. How did it affect your family, friends and dear ones
4. What should I be aware of when I decide to move out

My perspectives and stories in response to the above Qs
1. When your heart, and corpus allow you to, it is never too early to step out of corporate. My first request to all - please eliminate the word Retirement from one's vocabulary
2. and 3. Part 1 - I first stepped out of a job by choice, but the choice didn't quite work to my advantage. I was suddenly staring at a fat EMI for a fast track loan that I'd got for my flat, a mid size monthly contribution that I had to make to a chit, and other expenses including education of the college going kid. While I was apprehensive about how I was going to manage this, I am happy to state now that I came up trumps, without dropping my simple lifestyle - How? I've always lived well within my means and that has helped me. During the first phase, I spent my time doing what I loved - automotive maintenance, and worked on a variety of cars that only enriched my knowledge and experience.

Nobody in the family was supportive here, and they worried about the unknown unnecessarily. Today, after that has become a thing of the past, the then worried ones do look back at that phase as though nothing had happened. Some lesser enlightened souls among F&F were happy to talk behind my back, with one of them even gossiping that I'd ventured into "Car Business". God Bless such souls!

2. and 3. Part 2 - Decided to step out of another torturous job before the COVID lockdown. While the co. was trying to place me elsewhere given the credibility I'd built, the COVID shutdown dictated closure of all open cases of separation, and I was happy that the saga ended. In Part 2, the difference was I had ZERO financial liability, and had already gone through Part 1, so it was a cakewalk. Here again, the family and friends said, "Come on, not again." But then, deep inside them was a realization that I'd taken the decision post all due diligence and they knew that all would be well. Part 2 was a much shorter phase than Part 1.

I'm finally in independent consulting work, free of all pull levers, but the flipside is a lot of travel. Do I enjoy this phase? Yes and No. Yes for being occupied, having the opportunity to travel, see more places, companies and work cultures. No, since the nature of work is quite repetitive. Another plus in this phase is there is no "retirement".

Just as I was looking forward to a long run, there was a forced Part 3 in the form of surgery that put me out of action and earnings for 2 months. Here again, I just went on to do things that I loved around automotive and was back on stream. Good part here was - clients in 2 engagements that I was managing were happy to wait for me than ask for some other consultant.

4. You should be aware of a) your ability to live the rest of your life with whatever you've built and b) how you're going to keep yourself engaged

A few points made here (The Depression Thread: Let's openly talk about this elephant in the room)

Originally Posted by am1m

I for one will not miss whatever title I have when I retire .Some professions, rather "callings", really mean something in terms of 'status'. (And it's a pity we have a system that compensates such vital functions worse than say "AVP at Google".) The rest are jobs. Some great, but nothing that should become a chain that stops you from walking away when you want to (again, IF financially viable!)

Rightly said

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

- For many of us retirement happens one day and most are quite unprepared for it emotionally and at times financially
- The family has to support you. Biggest support has to come from the spouse
- Do this only when you are financially secure and have a real alternative career/occupation/activity to jump onto.

Pertinent points Sir. In my first job where I had an over two decade long tenure, I've seen examples of many who'd planned their retirement well, and many who stared at retirement down the barrel and didn't know what to do after their LWD.

[Chisels121]

While I am not the best guy to answer this in my perspective but from what I have seen in my father's almost 25 year career is that if you love what you do then retirement is the last thing in your mind. My father too is in his 50's and has no plans of retirement till 2040 at least. According to him the day he will stop working would be the day he would get bedridden(he has vericose veins).Although he still made some medium investments in PF's and a 2000sqft house in his birthplace for 'chilling'

P.S: My father is in the coaching field and is a IIT Dhanbad pass- out and I too followed his footsteps in IIT

[Newtown]

Originally Posted by subraiyr

Dual employment is definitely a concern. There are probably a number of guidelines associated with it.

In my case, my firm had a checklist or rather an assessment which I had to take. The assessment had a number of call outs, but essentially it focussed on a few things

Thank you very much for this. Very insightful and I shall speak to my HR on their view on how they'd like to do this.

[lapis_lazuli]

1) Starting 2 years before retirement: Tally and correct all NAMES, ADDRESSES, CONTACT numbers etc and ensure they are exactly identical to the last punctuation mark. Read, in Adhaar, PF, LIC, blah. Very few people in your ex office or outside, will have time for you, to align to your urgency levels.

2) Inform everything to your wife: PF accounts, investments, everything. Insurance, beneficiaries...

3) Get an EXHAUSTIVE health check up at the same time frame: Spend 60-80K. This might be one singular greatest investment. God forbid if anything is found, you are still "on rolls". A corporate push makes insurance easier.

4) Make that Euro or South America trip: rediscover your spouse. Post retirement there is no one else, really. your parents are your children now. Your children are no more your children now.

5) Get involved pro bono. Wont get into finding hobbies cliche.

6) Renovate your house, good for the next 15 years. Like the pricier next segment car: it will age slower than you do.

7) Take a look at your assets: house property documents, your birth certificate, degree certificates, your marriage certificates, your childrens birth certificates: hand them over if not already. Or, get a locker in a bank with your children jointly.

8) Look around: how many relatives are still alive? Start making contact: that long lost cousin, that uncle you wanted to meet, the sister who never called back, the friend who quit for the silliest of reasons....now is the time. Post retirement, is lonely unless handled well.

[Mystic]

I am glad that OP has started this thread on so called RETIREMENT without the financial aspect.

My take on this complicated and sensitive subject which means different things to different people and there is no one size that fits all.

1. I am 60 years old and took a volunteer retirement one year ahead last year. For the past one year I had been spending my time in the best possible way that I want to live. My life in the corporate world as a principal consultant is in a very niche area in the world of ERP. My area of expertise is very rare that there are hardly half dozen people who can replace me on this planet. Wherever my skills are required , the clients wait for me until I am free on my schedule. From this kind of a busy globe trotting lifestyle to doing absolutely NOTHING for the past year, I thought I would drive my wife crazy. But the reality is that she is the happiest person now.

2. Let me elaborate on what it means to be doing NOTHING. The society has imposed a certain way that we are supposed to behave during various stages of life mimicking the likes of ideal persons like Buddha, Jesus etc but we are all unique and will never fit into any ideal template because the world problems are changing every minute and there is no ONE ever lasting solution to human problems. I stopped wasting my time in trying to do something over and above what we all normally do like waking up in the morning, going to work, raising children and one day dropping dead. My grand father told me not to waste my life like what he did for 50 years
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U._G._Krishnamurti).

3. Coming back to the topic of so called Retirement. I come from a family of great grandfathers who are highly educated and worked as top bureaucrats with Government. When my son was awarded PhD in AI in his teens from one of the top 5 universities in USA, nobody actually noticed this in our extended family. All my ancestors retired at age 60 including my father as Chief Engineer of Roads with Govt. My father was so busy at around his retirement age signing on checks worth thousands of crores as an authorised signatory on behalf of Government. From this stage, he lived until 85 years doing absolutely NOTHING.

4. What is this NOTHING. Does it actually drive any human crazy? My answer is no. Be conscious of every breath you are taking and live life in the present and always enjoy life as it unfolds. We have to be very careful of the thoughts which keep on coming to our mind and these are always destructive by default as there is a neurological disorder in the human mind. Let us not go deeper than this for now. If interested and willing to waste 50 years of one’s life, one may go visit my grandfather web site but be careful as he is a spiritual terrorist ( once my grandfather asked a question to Bhagavan Mahirshi Ramana who seldom talks but considered as God ( "This thing called moksha, can you give it to me?" – to which Ramana Maharshi replied, "I can give it, but can you take it?"). Ramana is mostly silent and is an enlightened man. To the outside world he is seen as somebody spending years in meditation and not assuring anybody of an easy shortcut to enlightenment ( what ever the word enlightenment means).

5. Doing NOTHING post 60 years is a moral responsibility of every individual as per my personal opinion. We need to give an opportunity to the next generation and young blood to replace us.

6. As long as you keep finances out of your thoughts, it is very easy to lead a simple living with high thinking ( high thinking and NOTHING are synonyms as per me).

[FocusAssist]

Sir, I am half of your age and shouln't be giving life advice. But I do want to share my thoughts.
1) From the 1st post its quite clear that you are financially taken care of. Other forum members have suggested excellent 'how to move out' practical suggestions as well.
2) What I want to add is, now that everyone is taken care of, you need to do what you want to.
Meaning, beyond money, beyond status, beyond validation, what can one achieve is the question.
Now that you have learnt many many things, I think its time to share those with others and make your learnings stay forever in the world. Sir, as you said, you like teaching and from your words its I am assuming its not for money. Why not spend time doing just that?
I won't suggest you to join a NGO or something because even that has status games, there is no escape. Start teaching kids, young adults, people of my age about whatever they want to learn. Some may need biz help, some a math problem. I think you can pitch in in most cases. But 1st you'll have to get them to know you and you to know them. Thats the hard part. But you have been taking challenges for your entire life. This is a new one. All the best. Can't wait to see what you come up with!