rising oil price burns - What is government Doing here

phamilyman · 13th May 2008, 00:38

Shaju,

Which is why I said that your post was just incoherent data and alot of FUD. Indian government can barely intervene to prop up the INR-USD rate on a reasonable long term basis - and we are a market driven by non-deliverable forwards (atleast abck in 05 when I experienced that side of the market). You may wish to do a reality check by comparing the derivative futures market volume for crude with indian government's liquidity (not the full so called USD position) and then see how many weeks of oil can we subsidize. Speculation and spikes is what the market is. Like I said, having worked professionally in that segment, I can say with a reasonable degree of surety.

And then again, the old oil pool era is not only passe, it is irrelevant. Those were the golden days when the government thought of using money from transportation for social development. Today the volte face sees government bleeding its oil companies to give us cheaper fuel. Ironical, no?

And again, detailed costing of an imported car is NOT about outsourced components from china (everyone has them even your boeing planes FWIW) but about fixed cost allocation, about expenses/salaries and respective cost structures. And the duty is same, irrelevant of whether its made in China or not. Its a very easy comparison to bandy about but again completely irrelevant with the topic in question.

phamilyman · 13th May 2008, 00:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by theMAG

That the government HAS to cut duties/levies on petrol is no longer a wish - its a dire necessity.

Au contraire. IMNSHO, it is the best time to:
a. Invest like mad in public transportation over the next year.
b. Tax the hell out of oil. My friend Mag, your suggestion will take us down the US path to more consumption and reliance on foreign oil (as if 80% wasnt bad enough). There is a reason why europeans use so much public transport.

For an energy deficient country like India, that is the ONLY way out.

ravikn · 13th May 2008, 12:09

I agree with you Phamilyman !

This is the only way to make our country less dependent on other countries. We also need to be more cautious as human power is one of the strengths of our country considering the growth we have had in the last 10 years. Now it is high time to invest heavily on public transport and infrastructure to improve the facilities which will be attractive for everyone.

phamilyman · 13th May 2008, 17:13

The so-called oil bubble - International Herald Tribune

An interesting insightful article.

Plus humans crib, then adjust. and pay 5x prices!

ravikn · 13th May 2008, 18:26

Another useful article I found from IHT. Why cant government think in this direction? this will also encourage formers also to grow sugarcane with out any hurdles while selling it

Ethanol, the ultimate home brew

sahakar · 22nd May 2008, 07:42

Folks,

As all of you would know, crude has reached 135$ a barrel. The Indian Govt will eventually have to pass thru the increases.

What do you all think should be the best way for us to mitigate this?

A few things I can think of -
- Starting a car pool in office
- Putting in CNG
- Start using public transport

What are your suggestions?

bblost · 22nd May 2008, 08:53

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shifti...oing-here.html

shuvc · 22nd May 2008, 09:04

Todays ET reports that oil companies in India might start rationing fuel.

shankar.balan · 22nd May 2008, 09:37

diesel and petrol being rationed - bunks cutting down on timings
trouble ahead boys it appears!

however, overall i think it is incorrect to keep fuel prices artificially low - this sector needs to be opened up like it is in the international scenario.

however, we ll all have to be prepared for rising costs of food and other essential commodities because of corresponding increase in transport costs.

it is sad that our millions of poor people cant even get the 3 square meals a day I agree, but keeping fuel prices artificially low is not the main answer! In effect the govt keeps kowtowing to the truckers lobby and no govt appears to have the political will to go against the tide!

it will pinch a bit, but ultimately opening up the sector will benefit the country at large by increasing competition and competitiveness!

see the HI Q (Mangalore Refinery Bunk) on Mysore Road (Maddur) - its always empty as the Reliance bunks have always been empty and Shell of course which is pretty empty too - most of us vehicle users still prefer the less expensive fuel sold by the Navratna companies - as long as this differential (subsidized) pricing exists, normal users will certainly take advantage - after all it s our hard earned money!

But all in all, todays ET report will definitely send tremors down the line - imagine rationing - frightening!

thangu · 22nd May 2008, 09:53

I heard this from a consultant who used to work for one of the oil companies extracting oil from Alaska...

It costs the oil companies only $9-$12 per barrel for extraction and transporting.

but on the market its just touched $135, so I guess this explains the extraordinary huge profits that the oil companies in the U.S have been reporting.

sanjayatarizona · 22nd May 2008, 10:05

Buddy, i just dusted off my bicycle yesterday but found out that i was unable to drag my own weight in the forward direction come what may.. I guess this is one of the side effects of using the car even for a travel to the loo.

The ground reality is that the government makes tons of cash in lieu of taxes from oil, the oil companies cry about percieved losses and we the consumers end up as suckers

I use the carpool method, great on fuel, saves parking space,great for the unofficial chat till you reach office, drawback being you are dependent on other people's time. It works for me.

sahakar · 22nd May 2008, 10:56

There's one more option i forgot to mention.

Start telecommuting.

It works well here in the US. I am sure it will work fine in at least IT related professions.

jaganm · 22nd May 2008, 11:34

Try cycling, it consumes no fuel, is faster than driving on our gridlocked roads and you get fit as well.

There are a lot of really good cycles that are out in the market, brands like Firefox, Trek and Merida. These come with gears, so even if you're not very fit, riding them will not be that difficult. Lot of people will say that cycling is dangerous on our roads, but if you take a few precautions, its not that bad at all.

phamilyman · 22nd May 2008, 12:33

Telecommuting/public transport is the way to go. I just want a bus to office in which I don't sweat.

vkochar · 22nd May 2008, 12:37

Hmm.. That's the way things are going to be. It's going to go up by at least 4 rs. next time ( whenever that comes ). Eventually it has to happen. Going the Diesel way helps a bit but it is not long before Diesel & Petrol actually sell for more or less the same way as it is in UK.

13th May 2008, 00:38	#16
phamilyman Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Gurgaon Posts: 5,968 Thanked: 4,642 Times	Shaju, Which is why I said that your post was just incoherent data and alot of FUD. Indian government can barely intervene to prop up the INR-USD rate on a reasonable long term basis - and we are a market driven by non-deliverable forwards (atleast abck in 05 when I experienced that side of the market). You may wish to do a reality check by comparing the derivative futures market volume for crude with indian government's liquidity (not the full so called USD position) and then see how many weeks of oil can we subsidize. Speculation and spikes is what the market is. Like I said, having worked professionally in that segment, I can say with a reasonable degree of surety. And then again, the old oil pool era is not only passe, it is irrelevant. Those were the golden days when the government thought of using money from transportation for social development. Today the volte face sees government bleeding its oil companies to give us cheaper fuel. Ironical, no? And again, detailed costing of an imported car is NOT about outsourced components from china (everyone has them even your boeing planes FWIW) but about fixed cost allocation, about expenses/salaries and respective cost structures. And the duty is same, irrelevant of whether its made in China or not. Its a very easy comparison to bandy about but again completely irrelevant with the topic in question.
	() Thanks

13th May 2008, 12:09	#18
ravikn BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 344 Thanked: 25 Times	I agree with you Phamilyman ! This is the only way to make our country less dependent on other countries. We also need to be more cautious as human power is one of the strengths of our country considering the growth we have had in the last 10 years. Now it is high time to invest heavily on public transport and infrastructure to improve the facilities which will be attractive for everyone. Last edited by ravikn : 13th May 2008 at 12:11. Reason: grammer edit
	() Thanks

13th May 2008, 17:13	#19
phamilyman Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Gurgaon Posts: 5,968 Thanked: 4,642 Times	The so-called oil bubble - International Herald Tribune An interesting insightful article. Plus humans crib, then adjust. and pay 5x prices!
	() Thanks

13th May 2008, 18:26	#20
ravikn BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 344 Thanked: 25 Times	Another useful article I found from IHT. Why cant government think in this direction? this will also encourage formers also to grow sugarcane with out any hurdles while selling it Ethanol, the ultimate home brew
	() Thanks

22nd May 2008, 07:42	#21
sahakar BHPian Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: LA <--> Bombay Posts: 473 Thanked: 213 Times	Crude oil reaches 135$. How to manage the sticker shock coming soon? Folks, As all of you would know, crude has reached 135$ a barrel. The Indian Govt will eventually have to pass thru the increases. What do you all think should be the best way for us to mitigate this? A few things I can think of - - Starting a car pool in office - Putting in CNG - Start using public transport What are your suggestions?
	() Thanks

22nd May 2008, 08:53	#22
bblost Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 11,008 Thanked: 15,366 Times View My Garage	http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shifti...oing-here.html
	() Thanks

22nd May 2008, 09:04	#23
shuvc Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2005 Location: Kolkata Posts: 2,913 Thanked: 352 Times View My Garage	Todays ET reports that oil companies in India might start rationing fuel.
	() Thanks

22nd May 2008, 09:37	#24
shankar.balan BANNED Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Bangalore Posts: 11,368 Thanked: 23,158 Times View My Garage Infractions: 0/2 (8)	diesel and petrol being rationed - bunks cutting down on timings trouble ahead boys it appears! however, overall i think it is incorrect to keep fuel prices artificially low - this sector needs to be opened up like it is in the international scenario. however, we ll all have to be prepared for rising costs of food and other essential commodities because of corresponding increase in transport costs. it is sad that our millions of poor people cant even get the 3 square meals a day I agree, but keeping fuel prices artificially low is not the main answer! In effect the govt keeps kowtowing to the truckers lobby and no govt appears to have the political will to go against the tide! it will pinch a bit, but ultimately opening up the sector will benefit the country at large by increasing competition and competitiveness! see the HI Q (Mangalore Refinery Bunk) on Mysore Road (Maddur) - its always empty as the Reliance bunks have always been empty and Shell of course which is pretty empty too - most of us vehicle users still prefer the less expensive fuel sold by the Navratna companies - as long as this differential (subsidized) pricing exists, normal users will certainly take advantage - after all it s our hard earned money! But all in all, todays ET report will definitely send tremors down the line - imagine rationing - frightening!
	() Thanks

22nd May 2008, 09:53	#25
thangu BHPian Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Dallas, Tx Posts: 124 Thanked: Once	I heard this from a consultant who used to work for one of the oil companies extracting oil from Alaska... It costs the oil companies only $9-$12 per barrel for extraction and transporting. but on the market its just touched $135, so I guess this explains the extraordinary huge profits that the oil companies in the U.S have been reporting.
	() Thanks

22nd May 2008, 10:05	#26
sanjayatarizona BHPian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: "God's own Shaap" Posts: 354 Thanked: 10 Times	Buddy, i just dusted off my bicycle yesterday but found out that i was unable to drag my own weight in the forward direction come what may.. I guess this is one of the side effects of using the car even for a travel to the loo. The ground reality is that the government makes tons of cash in lieu of taxes from oil, the oil companies cry about percieved losses and we the consumers end up as suckers I use the carpool method, great on fuel, saves parking space,great for the unofficial chat till you reach office, drawback being you are dependent on other people's time. It works for me.
	() Thanks

22nd May 2008, 10:56	#27
sahakar BHPian Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: LA <--> Bombay Posts: 473 Thanked: 213 Times	There's one more option i forgot to mention. Start telecommuting. It works well here in the US. I am sure it will work fine in at least IT related professions.
	() Thanks

22nd May 2008, 11:34	#28
jaganm BHPian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 372 Thanked: 428 Times	Try cycling, it consumes no fuel, is faster than driving on our gridlocked roads and you get fit as well. There are a lot of really good cycles that are out in the market, brands like Firefox, Trek and Merida. These come with gears, so even if you're not very fit, riding them will not be that difficult. Lot of people will say that cycling is dangerous on our roads, but if you take a few precautions, its not that bad at all.
	() Thanks

22nd May 2008, 12:33	#29
phamilyman Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Gurgaon Posts: 5,968 Thanked: 4,642 Times	Telecommuting/public transport is the way to go. I just want a bus to office in which I don't sweat.
	() Thanks

22nd May 2008, 12:37	#30
vkochar Senior - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Delhi / Agra / London Posts: 2,146 Thanked: 819 Times View My Garage	Hmm.. That's the way things are going to be. It's going to go up by at least 4 rs. next time ( whenever that comes ). Eventually it has to happen. Going the Diesel way helps a bit but it is not long before Diesel & Petrol actually sell for more or less the same way as it is in UK.
	() Thanks