[rajatsingh78]

After Hazare Ji's fast and subsequent coaxing of the government to pass the Lokpal bill, I thought...alas..things will be better once this bill is passed and put into power.

But is it so, or is it just the figment of my imagination, is the corruption too much deeply embedded into our society that no bill or law can ever get rid of the same,

Scene 1 - Me moving around in a share auto and two people talking about putting a civil vehicle in taxi, one guy says that its illegal and the other says that money is there to grease the right places. And until money is fed there the law monster will not bite you

Scene 2 - My sister was moving houses (Pune to Agra), the packers and movers mentioned "Interstate Charges" upon inquiring and lot of coaxing the sales guy admitted that these charges are nothing but money paid to the goons (at Maharashtra border to the famed party workers, at various state borders to the goons belonging to the state government in power etc.). There was no choice because everthing was packed and ready to be loaded

Scene 3 - I recently went to many showrooms to book my SX4, and the registration charges (for UP number) provided were as follows :
Noida Dealer - 49000
Ghazianad Dealer - 49700
Delhi Dealer - 54000
Upon inquiring the road tax in UP is 6% of the cost if the unladen weight of the vehicle is between 1000-5000 kgs, this amounts to Rs. 42000 for my SX4 VXi!!! so Noida/Ghaziabad dealers are charging around 7000 extra and the Delhi dealer is charging 12000 extra!!

I called the Noida dealer's sales man who was dealing with my sale and asked, he said that its 7%, I told him that I have a document from the UP transport department and it says 6%, so either he is incorrect or Maruti has incorrectly mentioned the weight of SX4 VXi as 1170 kgs. On this he became silent and said that he will call me back tomorrow after investigating, interestingly these inflated registration charges are mentioned on the official price-list of the dealers

Scene 4 - One of my friend went to buy an army restored Gypsy, during the conversation the restorer told that the registration would be done in Punjab. This friend of mine has never been to Punjab and is a permanent resident of Noida. Upon bringing this point by me, the restorer looked as me as if I am a deal breaker and my friend looked at me as I am from some different era. Both of them didn't comment on my statement and went on to decide about the engine spec, modifications etc. etc. And I thought to myself Mr. Hazare for whom did you fast

In all the above situations we the people feed corruption, I fail to understand how this bill will make any changes when the people are not ready to give a fight.

Jab meiyan (common man) biwi (corrupt) raazi (agree to pay) to kya karega ka kaazi (Mr.Hazare and all those against corruption)

[rishab.k]

Originally Posted by rajatsingh78

I told him that I have a document from the UP transport department and it says 6%.....

It's 7% in UP. It was increased last year in November.

[carfreak]

Ha ha it is a good topic!and true to the heading corruption is deep rooted in our society and it cannot be eliminated by the Lokpal bill!

But there should be a first step in the route to reduce (reduce not totally eliminate!) corruption and for that i support this bill!!

[AvinashKeezh]

Hey Rajat,
Very true words spoken. What you've described is (atleast has been) the way of life for any average Indian who has to deal with the state machinery (any form). :|
Corruption needs to be looked at as an epidemic and not as a symptom of the epidemic.
What Hazare has instigated is just a formal nation wide acceptance of the symptom and all the measures (or half measures as many blogs and intellectuals are proclaiming) are currently directed towards that.
Unless there is a change in our attitude to get work done by any means, it would not help the cause.

[rajatsingh78]

@rishab.k - Thanks for clarifying, you are correct, however still some costs are unexplained, specially from the Delhi dealer
@Avinash - Thanks
Most people think like this,

Option 1 : Take 6 leaves to get a task done, Rs.500 per leave, total loss = Rs.3000, plus loss of fuel/public transport, additional frustration, etc.

Option 2 : Pay Rs.2000 to a tout, who will actually take Rs.1000 for himself, rest goes to the monster called corruption

most people would pick option 2 not just because of the financial savings, but other things like frustration, standing in a queue, etc. etc.

[AvinashKeezh]

Originally Posted by rajatsingh78

Option 2 : Pay Rs.2000 to a tout, who will actually take Rs.1000 for himself, rest goes to the monster called corruption

most people would pick option 2 not just because of the financial savings, but other things like frustration, standing in a queue, etc. etc.

That is exactly what we need to tackle. The current movement against corruption does not address this directly, but would make people (in the state machinery) accountable to the Lokpal or Lokayukta if there is a charge against them.

Once this becomes a norm, the next main task is to make sure there are no unnecessary regulations and norms that would require "us" to use the Option 2. If the process and the machinery is well organized, we would have enough people to aid in completing any task or activity with out the Queue building up and people required to visit the counters multiple times.

[anku94]

I agree. Corruption exists not for want of stricter laws, but because everyone encourages it.

It's a vicious cycle, actually. No one wants to pay more. Initially, people HAVE TO pay to get their job done (in some cases), and some time later, the option of paying becomes so common that you're treated like a premium customer if you grease palms, and like a beggar if you stick to the legal way.

And you can't expect most people to stick to the legal way and wait for long times to get the job done. Now take my case, my parents are not in the best of health, and we applied for a ration card an year or two ago. Can I ask my parents to 'struggle' to get their rights ? I am pretty much decided on filing an RTI application once my exams and stuff is over, but that's only because I would have 9 weeks of holidays before I begin college, and after the last competitive exam is over. Can that be said for most of the people ?

Even worse is the fact that we're somehow very comfortable with the situation. The departmental store near our home sends people to do a neighborhood survey of residents' preferences etc., and they spend a minute or so and say, "if someone asks if a survey was conducted, tell them that we spent half an hour interacting with you" and I was like OK. It was not until after a few days that it hit me - "Wait a minute. Why should I aid the guy in escaping from work ?" And that's despite the fact that I consider myself as an ethical person.

[rajatsingh78]

Scenario - I was filling the form for booking my SX4 VDi, the sales person says - Sir, jo resident proof aapne deeye hain uske baad RTO main 2500\- under the table dene honge (sir the documents that you provided will not be enough, and for registration 2500 will need to be paid in the RTO); I was completely shocked and told him that I will not pay a penny in bribe, I asked him to let me know what all is required to get the registration done without any bribe, he went and called his TL who goes Sir, there will be 3 extra documents - police verification, electricity bill and an affidavit declaring that all the documents and it will be done without any bribe

My point of viewThere will be some run around for the affidavit but I am sure I can pull this off without "greasing" the system

[download2live]

^^ Rajat one more thing is lack of accountability.

1. There are people in govt who know that no matter how much they mess things ,they will never lose their job.

2. There is a purpose most of the govt laws are archaic. So that it is difficult to follow them and hence the incentive for the common man to pay up a bribe is more. The owner of one apartment complex once told me that the reason Builders go about flouting the norms and greasing the palms is that the laws are so outdated, that if a builder follows all of them he wont make a single penny!

Unless we somehow introduce provision of firing an incompetent person immediately in govt sector, there is little hope.

Remember that in IT there is not job security. And it is this thing which has kept people on toes. And results are there to see.

[phamilyman]

Hell with that - I have another story. Way back in the 90s when CG was made a new state - a friend's father was suddenly transferred from Indore (his hometown) to Jabalpur (in CG) 6 months before the transition.

As per govt rules, you are to stay on in the state that you are working in, after a new state is created. So despite being a mid level govt babu - he had to pay 50k (a midsized plot back then) to get transferred back to Indore.

Later he learned that scores of such 'last minute' transfers had happened. That's babus skinning babus.

@Rajat: if you have a <5 year old passport at Noida - you won't need police verification, ever. Passport suffices

[vb-saan]

An English title to this thread would have been more apt. Since this is a national (or I will rather say International) forum, many people will give this thread a miss without knowing what the topic is all about!

[rajatsingh78]

My passport has my Agra address, but it helped me to get the police verification done quickly

Originally Posted by phamilyman

Hell with that - I have another story. Way back in the 90s when CG was made a new state - a friend's father was suddenly transferred from Indore (his hometown) to Jabalpur (in CG) 6 months before the transition.

As per govt rules, you are to stay on in the state that you are working in, after a new state is created. So despite being a mid level govt babu - he had to pay 50k (a midsized plot back then) to get transferred back to Indore.

Later he learned that scores of such 'last minute' transfers had happened. That's babus skinning babus.

@Rajat: if you have a <5 year old passport at Noida - you won't need police verification, ever. Passport suffices

[tsk1979]

Note from mod : Thread closed.
If you want to follow a similar discussion, please look at a similar thread which had to be closed, because such discussions usually lead to politics and religion, which is not allowed as per Team-BHP rules
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shifti...n-india-9.html