[RedTerrano]

I am not totally against tolls. I understand good roads cost money.
Some people have rightly pointed out the pay per use model. Fair enough.
By that logic is it unfair for me, as a person who has paid one time tax, to expect quality roads in the city? And I think everyone remembers the infamous incident from Kolhapur some years back, where there was a move to levy toll for city roads. Understandably the residents agitated.

What irks me is the instances where toll is being levied even though the construction is still ongoing. Sometimes for years.
One such example is the Pune Satara patch.
It was in bad condition (officially work ongoing) in 2014 when I drove BLR - PNQ. Toll charged.
It was in bad condition two years back when I drove to Kopeshwar. Toll charged.
I wouldn't be surprised if it's still in bad condition.

[Stribog]

Originally Posted by WorkingGuru

Reading the headline, I wondered how it'd be possible when India is sitting on record fiscal deficit!

Here's the "how" :

I've a feeling that we're going to be paying extortionate tolls to access these roads! Further, the term period of collecting these tolls is often extended endlessly.

The cascading effects of the tolls would be visible on the goods being transported through them - indirectly borne by the citizens.

We pay almost half the MRP of a car as GST+cess, additionally the road tax comes to 15-20% of the MRP, and similar taxes for fuel. All this from Post-Tax Incomes and apart from being vulnerable consumers with no Anti-Lemon car laws.
.

I don't understand the relentless cynicism (both in your post and the others). If anything this govt till COVID hit was known and even called out for obsessive fiscal deficit management. From 4.93% in 2013 to 3.34%, it has systematically gutted key areas like defense to meet fiscal targets.

Take China, it averaged 6-8% deficits in its insane growth period (late 90's) and then another spurt post 2010 when it averaged 6-7% for nearly 4 years.

Deficit in of itself is not some be all end all for any state. That being said 2020 is an exception as tax collections in April, May and June simply plummeted so it goes to reason that the revenue / fiscal deficit will shoot up. This however is not a permanent thing, and by December itself is expected to normalise.

On tolls, the Toll model has been the default model in India since 2001 when the GQ project was mooted and I don't think a single person begrudges the toll they pay for a comfortable ride.

The total toll collected is 0.0006% of the GDP, not sure if the cascading effect on inflation is really that high.

Originally Posted by AirbusCapt

All the drama is for 2024 elections. If you observe carefully, most of these roads are supposed to be available only near or on the election year. How convenient can that be?

Right now the government is near bankrupt. Due to the covid lockdowns and job losses, they can't raise taxes or come up with new schemes to loot the public. Hence these new ideas of money spining by making new roads, trains airports etc. The hope is that public spending on infrastructure may raise the economy and boost spending

Most of the projects you read about were conceived in 2015-16, and awarded by 2017-18. Your 'this is all for elections' fear seems to be misplaced.

And are you actually arguing that India DOESN't need roads, airports, rail lines etc? And spending money on infra to boost the economy is standard Keynisian tactics, something which economies as diverse as USA, Germany and China have adopted, quite successfully I might add.

[VeluM]

Originally Posted by roadrunner_nv

Pune and Mumbai roads leading to the expressway are in a tattered state.

While it is not a highway, the stretch from Baner exit on highway to University circle is just pathetic and whoever calls is a good road is just a moron.

Are the actual highways decent? If yes, then these points are irrelevant to the thread. If not then that’s a problem.

We need good highways - good surface and good design. The Delhi Agra new highway is an example of a good surface but the design is suspect because firstly they continue to allow two-wheelers on it, and secondly because the toll booths are on the highway itself.

This basic design flaw doesn’t need exceptional intelligence to identify, yet we continue to replicate it in all new highways. And with tolled roads, how difficult is it to keep unauthorised vehicles out?

I read that the Mumbai-Nagpur highway will have electronic toll that doesn’t require the vehicle to stop, but that’s something I’ll believe when I see. So many plans in India begin with a grand idea and fall on poor execution - mainly stemming from corruption.

Originally Posted by AirbusCapt

All the drama is for 2024 elections. If you observe carefully, most of these roads are supposed to be available only near or on the election year. How convenient can that be?

If that were the only reason, I’d still take it. Any infrastructure project can be cynically viewed as being just for the elections, however the better question is whether these were completed, and how well.

Infrastructure development is globally recognised as one of the ways any government uses to generate employment and growth, whether or not the development is funded by taxes or debt. I’m glad that there is a publicly stated deadline to which one can at least hold them accountable.

[Gildarts]

The chennai-salem expressway is in limbo due to stay order. The case is pending before the supreme court. That section already has a 4 lane highway and the volume of traffic is not that high. So what's the need for a brand new expressway? The chennai - Madurai stretch has huge volume of traffic, that highway can be expanded to 8 lane. That'll be more relevant. So, all the expressways planned are identified based on scientific logic or political logic? That's the issue here.

[vharihar]

Originally Posted by AirbusCapt

All the drama is for 2024 elections. If you observe carefully, most of these roads are supposed to be available only near or on the election year. How convenient can that be?

Right now the government is near bankrupt. Due to the covid lockdowns and job losses, they can't raise taxes or come up with new schemes to loot the public. Hence these new ideas of money spining by making new roads, trains airports etc. The hope is that public spending on infrastructure may raise the economy and boost spending

Why this negativity? If you take the effort to browse thru the appropriate forums (for several years in skyscrapercity.com and recently on TBHP), you'll realize that many of these projects were started in the last 4-5 years and it just naturally turns out that they'll complete in the coming 3-4 years, plain and simple. Please don't attach a conspiracy angle to everything. Constructing something concrete on the country is part of nation building, so we should welcome it.

If you have points to make about why toll at short distances, why so high toll, etc, please do make such points. But kindly don't make wild charges of money spinning etc.

I personally believe one can rarely go wrong in building more and more infrastructure (lets don't cite debt etc; I'd rather we build something and increase debt rather than build nothing and yet increase debt!). So my philosophy is to not let go the opportunity when it comes knocking on your door. They always have an indirect benefit on the economy of the region. Doing good, honest, constructive, hard work and building new things never goes waste, is my thinking.

[mmxylorider]

Look at some of the video on youtube about the ongoing construction and one will realize the scale, attention to detail and effort going on. Specifically to the Delhi-Mumbai expressway, 'Indian Villages' is a channel where progress in an MP package is shown. Updates are made practically everyday.

[SnakemanJohny]

Originally Posted by sandx

Praying to God that the road to Siliguri from Kolkata gets built quickly.

Sorry friend, God not inclined to listen. We in West Bengal -- already burdened with probably the worst roads in the country -- have been praying for that for a l-o-n-g time. It is the main connection between north and south Bengal, and also for the entire north-east. Such a vital link is a two-lane undivided 'highway', with traffic jams through most towns without bypasses, and potholes all the way.

In WB we also have "expressways" which are jokes by any standard ! For example, the Kona Expressway is a four-lane congested link to Calcutta from NH6 (Bombay Road) and NH2 (Delhi Road). It does not go to 'Kona', and has crossings with traffic lights with every road and lane that intersects it. All bridges/flyovers are two-lane bottlenecks.

The Kalyani Expressway begins and ends in narrow congested lanes, and is only now being widened to four lanes in some parts. It also has at-grade crossings.

Durgapur Expressway is hardly better. So is Belgharia Expressway !

[mmxylorider]

I must say, specifically to Maharashtra - the next few years will truly determine the state's long term fate. There are so many infra projects going on/in consideration, it boggles the mind. The high-speed rail link to Ahmedabad, Mumbai-Nagpur e-way, Delhi-Mumbai e-way, Dedicated freight corridor, Trans harbor link, Mumbai coastal road, Navi Mumbai airport, metros within greater Mumbai, Mumbai Pune e-way realignment and the list goes on. And this is just on the western front. So many more similar projects are in progress pan-India. This should be really advertised and get public support behind it.

[SaiSW]

I sincerely hope all of them are access controlled. That is one of the few things our neighbour does better than us, and it is high time we implement it as well, along with a dedicated highway patrol force with proper equipment ( talking about throughout the country, I think some states have something along those lines already )

What is the point of a high speed expressway when you've to worry about random biker/auto wala popping in the middle of the road from another dimension, while you're doing 80 kph?

Access controlled expressways + proper highway police will make most if not all respect laws or at the very least, not hog the highspeed lane.

I don't mind paying tolls as long as I'm getting the above two factors right.

[mmxylorider]

I believe, most of the e-ways being built will not allow 2/3 wheelers. Since many of them are greenfield, an alternative exists for slower moving vehicles. Also if you watch coverage of some of these new e-ways, they are being built with a significant elevation compared to regular grade. That will also prevent general intrusion of vehicles trying to use these roads in an illegal and unsafe manner.

[smooth indian]

Originally Posted by Raghav96

3214km in 16 hours mean ~200kmph
Not something I am comfortable doing for long distance irrespective of road condition.

I hope these expressways are constructed keeping quality in mind. IMO KMP expressway is too bouncy for 120 speed limit.
And with higher speed limits we also get cars which are comfortable doing that speed.
My honda city although perfect for my usage is too noisy at above 100-110kmph(vtec roar(?) is music for just few minutes after that its just noise).

For 'one corner of the country to another' I was hinting at cross country routes such as Mumbai-Kolkata and Chennai-Delhi, Mumbai-Delhi and Mumbai-Bengaluru-Chennai. Doing these sections within 12-16 hours (if not 12-14 hours) should be doable if through expressways are constructed.

Originally Posted by Raghav96

3214km in 16 hours mean ~200kmph
Not something I am comfortable doing for long distance irrespective of road condition.

You will drive at reasonable speed with safety in mind. Not to met some theoretical average. These gist of what I. am saying is that the above mentioned city-city links shouldn't require an entire da and some more to cover.

Originally Posted by WorkingGuru

Not as much for/against here, every decision has its grey areas. We're neutrally discussing the merits and demerits. We as a nation have chosen to accept this Govts decisions atleast for the remaining 4 years.

I suppose one can always express our opinions and thoughts on relevant issues, as long as it isn't indecent/abusive or off-topic.

[sandx]

Originally Posted by SnakemanJohny

Sorry friend, God not inclined to listen. We in West Bengal -- already burdened with probably the worst roads in the country -- have been praying for that for a l-o-n-g time. It is the main connection between north and south Bengal, and also for the entire north-east. Such a vital link is a two-lane undivided 'highway', with traffic jams through most towns without bypasses, and potholes all the way.

That was the intention behind invoking god, because he/she is the final authority as improvements in that section has never arrived after so many years, maybe prayers will help...!

Not that Assam, which is my home state fares any better.

[bharatbits]

Any premium offering must be over and above an existing basic offering. But, wiping out the basic offering completely and forcing a customer to choose and pay for a premium one is not correct. All vehicle owners have paid road taxes for basic roads to travel anywhere in the country. If someone wants a premium offering and wants to go faster they can pay the toll and use the tolled roads.

[smooth indian]

Originally Posted by bharatbits

Any premium offering must be over and above an existing basic offering. But, wiping out the basic offering completely and forcing a customer to choose and pay for a premium one is not correct. All vehicle owners have paid road taxes for basic roads to travel anywhere in the country. If someone wants a premium offering and wants to go faster they can pay the toll and use the tolled roads.

We have to be clear what a basic offering is. IMO dual carriageway need not be a basic offering. A single carriageway with 2 lanes is a basic offering. If a basic offering is transformed into a premium offering with tolls alternate basic offerings can be formed from other basic offerings in vicinity and by adding some missing links.

[Ranabegins]

There is a lot of Negativity, some people question any government's decision just for the sake of it. Building of expressways and 4 lane highways is a shortcut to development.
To give an example, I live in Patna(Bihar) and a few years ago a 4 lane elevated road was build from Patna to Baktiyarpur which was approx 50km long. The first time I traveled on that road it was empty on both sides and there was very less traffic. 4-5 years down the line there are at least 60-80 dhabas and numerous factories on both side of the road. A 50km stretch changed life of thousands of people who live near it and continues to employ thousands more directly or indirectly. Just imagine if a 50km stretch could do so much what would a 7000km stretch do over the years.
Of course I have my complains that the rate has increased from Rs 65 one way to Rs110 one way in last 5 years without increasing the length of the road and government should be controlling increase in toll rates but despite this negative fact I think there are much more positives to this.