[SoupRaw]

Originally Posted by hserus

BHPians who ride carefully (or some who ride rashly at crazy speeds but have better reflexes) are a tiny minority.

Most of the vlogger types are going to be rash with no particular biking skill, and focused on stunts for video clicks rather than keeping their eyes on the road.

So on the balance, the MVD will definitely elect to inconvenience this small minority of bhpians and crack down on unsafe behavior by the vloggers.

Agree with you. It's all about "views" and "clicks" for the majority of these vlogger types. This is one rare case where a majority ruins something good for the minority. It's usually the other way around.

A quote comes to mind. "You can attract catch more flies with honey than with vinegar, but you can catch even more with manure" - Sheldon Cooper.

[a_chelat]

I don't like this new rule (yet to be confirmed), but I can understand why the MVD, and a few BHPians, would want to implement something like this. There are too many YouTubers and influencers who are putting others at risk for their 15 seconds of fame.

Apart from the tragic loss of life that was widely reported, there are several other videos of rash riding that go unnoticed by the authorities, but is a disaster waiting to happen. Of course, there are a few sensible vloggers like Goproman (now annyarun, one I follow diligently) but they are a minority. Unfortunately they may have to suffer because of other idiots.

And its not just the bikers. Take a look at this video I saw on Instagram the other day, a Polo stunt in the middle of the road just for views:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CSTGH..._web_copy_link


I also don't think its a way to aid extortion or bribery. Kerala MVD and police force is a bit more professional than their counterparts in the south in this regard. They do seem to have a problem with bikers, but its more an itch than greed for money, IMO.

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by a_chelat

I also don't think its a way to aid extortion or bribery. Kerala MVD and police force is a bit more professional than their counterparts in the south in this regard. They do seem to have a problem with bikers, but its more an itch than greed for money, IMO.

But should we not ban cameras then. I have seen rash driving being filmed from the side of the road. So if roads and cameras are banned no more rash driving

The rule is a bit strange though. You say you have seen videos of rash driving with cameras on helmets. However, were these people driving in front of the police with helmet cameras? So if somebody does rash driving police can arrest them, whether the camera is there or not. The only thing this rule will accomplish is

1. Police will not longer be accountable as you cannot film them taking bribe
2. In case of an accident you will not have proof.

So I am trying to understand the argument that banning cameras will prevent rash driving.

Originally Posted by hserus

BHPians who ride carefully (or some who ride rashly at crazy speeds but have better reflexes) are a tiny minority.

Most of the vlogger types are going to be rash with no particular biking skill, and focused on stunts for video clicks rather than keeping their eyes on the road.

So on the balance, the MVD will definitely elect to inconvenience this small minority of bhpians and crack down on unsafe behavior by the vloggers.

Again, why is MVD not catching these rash drivers. Do the cameras make an invisibility shied where the rash drivers become invisible

[a_chelat]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

But should we not ban cameras then. I have seen rash driving being filmed from the side of the road. So if roads and cameras are banned no more rash driving

I agree. Even the Polo video I linked was not shot on an action cam. These guys will always find a way.

Like I said, I don't like it personally but can understand why some would get behind this idea. It would be wrong to pin this on the MVD's greed for bribes; they may not have thought this through but the so-called riders are the main culprits.

[SPIKE ARRESTOR]

It is now pretty clear why MVD is against helmet mounted cameras.

https://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...le35899756.ece

Allegedly, MVD Officers from Walayar check post in Kerala were using Walkie-Talkie for collecting bribes and disseminating information.

As I said earlier, someone needs to move the Court to stop this menace.

Spike

[anb]

Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR

It is now pretty clear why MVD is against helmet mounted cameras.

https://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...le35899756.ece

Allegedly, MVD Officers from Walayar check post in Kerala were using Walkie-Talkie for collecting bribes and disseminating information.

As I said earlier, someone needs to move the Court to stop this menace.

Spike

There is clearly no connection. Bribes in check post are mostly from overloaded commercial vehicle and contract carriage buses as mentioned in the news. Commercial vehicle drivers don’t wear helmet.

[iamahunter]

For a handful of them, I feel this should be a rule.
Few idiots forget that safety is important than making a vlog.
Have a look at this clip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pW3x...el=XTREMEVLOGS

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

The police force in India is only around 2.7 million strong giving us a ratio of police per 100,000 population of an unbelievably low ~20 to a lakh of people. UK that number is 211 per lakh. USA is 206. Canada is 187. Even China is at 143 per 100,000. Our police force is so undermanned by several times that it isn't even a joke. That is why they are left with no choice but institute blanket bans. There are simply not enough police to monitor on a case by case basis especially given that some of them are forever needed for VIP duties and some are busy filling their pockets.

Interesting statistic. That said, wouldn't the lack of police to populace in India be all the more reason to allow if not mandate the use of dash cams, helmet mounted cams and all other forms of surveillance?

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

While Team BHP members may by and large be inclined towards these bikers and super bikers the ordinary citizen {me included} is largely not. These vloggers are a nuisance and a danger to themselves and others. I can't buy the argument made by some that let the police first apprehend all the other two-wheeler riders violating rules before they come after us vloggers. The road is a public property, like a garden . If you wish to use it follow the rules and don't justify your mis-conduct. Likely this won't be a popular view on Team BHP but I believe I speak for the silent majority.

I'm sorry but someone has to point out to you that this is a bit like saying women cannot drive or that all people of a certain religion are terrorists Just because you might have seen a few bad videos or personally had a couple of brushes with unruly folk, doesn't mean you taint the entire category of vloggers with that view. By the same reasoning, I have seen several old men over the age of 50 who ride their two wheelers with an absolute lack of balance. Either because their bodies have adapted to the lopsided chetak driving style, or because their nerve endings are damaged so badly that they cannot be stable. But I cannot then say that all folk who learnt on Bajaj Chetaks should not ride or that all folk who smoke cannot be trusted to ride/drive since their nerve endings are degraded.

The solution to the chaos on our roads is to simply nip things in the bud; stricter licensing norms is the only thing that can save us not knee-jerk reactions like ridiculously low speed limits, banning helmet mounted cameras, etc.

[SPIKE ARRESTOR]

Originally Posted by anb

There is clearly no connection. Bribes in check post are mostly from overloaded commercial vehicle and contract carriage buses as mentioned in the news.

Well I think there is:

1. It shows corruption is present in Kerala MVD and that it is deep rooted. We cannot say that soliciting bribes ends at Kerala border check posts and that bribes are sought only from overloaded vehicles and contract carriage buses.

2. MVD taking on helmet mounted cameras is a clear indication, they are preventing citizens from filming their possible verbal / physical abuse, targeted harassment, request for bribes on camera, which could be used against them as evidence.

Harassment from officials need not be always for money, they might have their reasons for behaving the way they do, does not however justify their acts.

Few months back while crossing the border from TN to Kerala at Kumily check post, I was harassed for 30 Minutes despite having all documentations ready. They didn't ask me for any money, but just wanted to harass me. The reason I believe was to discourage free movement of people at the border.

In such situations, when you are traveling alone in an unknown place, your only saving grace could be a video / audio recording. Tell me why else a Police Officer / MVD Officer would be uncomfortable talking with a citizen who has a body mounted or helmet mounted camera? Clearly for me, their intentions are not good.

I've had my fair share of interactions with Police / MVD officials, except a few good ones, most of them behave like demi Gods, as if the area Magistrate has conferred all his powers on them, to impart Justice to citizens instantaneously in a public place.

Commercial vehicle drivers don’t wear helmet.

Good to know !

Spike

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

I'm sorry but someone has to point out to you that this is a bit like saying women cannot drive or that all people of a certain religion are terrorists. Just because you might have seen a few bad videos or personally had a couple of brushes with unruly folk, doesn't mean you taint the entire category of vloggers with that view.

Poor analogy. The number of women and citizens of some other religion in this country measure in tens of millions. Fast bike vloggers with helmet cameras and an eye for showmanship are in hundreds, at most thousands. The medicines has to be in the context of the size and proportion. I'm sure there are some responsible super bikers but most I have encountered on the road don't give me cause to be sympathetic to them. We can agree to disagree and leave it at that.

By the same reasoning, I have seen several old men over the age of 50 who ride their two wheelers with an absolute lack of balance. Either because their bodies have adapted to the lopsided chetak driving style, or because their nerve endings are damaged so badly that they cannot be stable.

Hmmm!! trying to get personal are we? As some one in his 7th decade I'll assume you are referring to some 51 year old youngster -oh those brash chaps of the 1970s.

The solution to the chaos on our roads is to simply nip things in the bud; stricter licensing norms is the only thing that can save us not knee-jerk reactions like ridiculously low speed limits, banning helmet mounted cameras, etc.

Yes better far better training and driving exams are the answer. When will that happen...doesn't seem like it will in my life time. Though I agree that is the only sane route ahead.

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Poor analogy. The number of women and citizens of some other religion in this country measure in tens of millions. Fast bike vloggers with helmet cameras and an eye for showmanship are in hundreds, at most thousands. The medicines has to be in the context of the size and proportion. I'm sure there are some responsible super bikers but most I have encountered on the road don't give me cause to be sympathetic to them.

I think proportion is what matters more than size. I have personally seen more responsible go-pro users than unruly ones but until one of us can prove the percentages, neither of us can tarnish an entire segment with our prejudice is what I am trying to say

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Hmmm!! trying to get personal are we? As some one in his 7th decade I'll assume you are referring to some 51 year old youngster -oh those brash chaps of the 1970s.

No Sir. I myself am more than halfway to 50 and we all have parents. Simply stating something I'm sure lots of people have observed as an example.

[corvus corax]

If I remember correctly, this forum has a rule reprimanding anyone from posting a video of them doing illegal speeds on the road. Why? Because it is an irresponsible thing to do. We have scores of people surfing through the pages here and we don't want anyone get influenced and so something reckless. We have a system to moderate such things. But what is the case with youtube and other social media? Even though youtube has a policy against harmful or dangerous acts it is seldom enforced otherwise many self appointed car or bike journalist's accounts who abuse their one day machines in the name of testing would be extinct. And these folks have a ton of followers as well.

Now you don't need a super bike to do illegal speeds and many of them reckless riders out there don't even wear a proper helmet let alone one with a go pro mount. But the chances of them trying to emulate their favouride youtube riders are high. So eventhough at the surface such a thought to ban action cams mounted on helmet may seem draconian, the intend behind it may be pure.

And I don't agree with the comments that the cops are doing this avoid getting caught on the camera doing malpractice. With the recent tussle with a popular blogger, the mvd faced significant backlash and nothing happened except for them facing some jail time and some kids' parents losing their sleep.

[LTAutoMad]

Originally Posted by autotranny

That's a gross overstatement. Kerala MVD is the least corrupt among the southern states, with Karnataka leading the corruption and malpractices list.

No, it is not an overstatement. It is not a race to the bottom - corruption is still corruption, no point in saying someone is relatively less corrupt.

As someone born & brought up in Kerala until I left for my first job in Bengaluru, where for several years I drove around in a KL registered motorbike, I stated my experience. As a young petrolhead, I never missed an opportunity to talk vehicles / shop with people like mechanics, taxi drivers, truckers etc. and I know their dealings with the RTO office (as it was called then). I have also had a bit of interaction with the RTO office as I used to go there along with relatives buying new cars, two wheelers etc. since those days one had to personally take the vehicles there for verification.

Ok, agree, this was long back - things could have changed dramatically now, but I doubt. You may have a different experience - good, but tone down the rhetoric.

[Latheesh]

Kerala MVD - We did re-registration of an old vehicle and a new car purchase in the recent past. I can confirm no bribe was paid and process was very fast. I took delivery of my new car on 30-July and they despatched RC on 4th. I frequently see them checking vehicles and most of the time it is two wheelers. I have never faced any issues when driving my KA registered car in Kerala.

I do not understand one thing. They are going after helmet mounted go pro cameras and do nothing about rashly driven private and state transport buses. I have never seen a well driven buses in this part of Kerala. They are the real nuisance on the road. I have to go off the road couple of times to save myself from these morons during my 20 km drive yesterday.

On the other hand Karnataka MVD and traffic polices are the worst I faced. I faced problems when I rode my KL registered bike and KA registered car i Karnataka.

[autotranny]

Originally Posted by LTAutoMad

Ok, agree, this was long back - things could have changed dramatically now, but I doubt.

The difference is in being Corrupt V/s "Stringent Enforcement of Rules, for their own benefits - be it without a logic- and with a sole intention of collecting fines". I agree that Kerala MVD is a prime example of the latter.

However, they are not very corrupt, compared to the other states and that's not surprising considering that Govt departments in the state are generally less corrupt than their counterparts in other states. Coming specifically to the MVD, I guess a lot of this positive change happened during Rishiraj Singh's stint as Transport Commissioner (circa 2014 or so). He had personally met a lot of RTO agencies and dissuaded them from giving bribes to get things done. The result however, was that the RTO officials went on vengeance mode and started failing a lot of driving tests and collecting fines for event he silliest of exceptions to the law.