[Pacifica]

So this bit of news - https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/auto...reacts-4872016 - triggered a major argument on my college classmates WhatsApp group.

Basically, one group feels that dedicated roads are elitist:
1. On all other transport (rail, air, bus, etc.), anyone who pays can travel.
2. But only on road, some roads are reserved for certain vehicles - dedicated bus lanes or expressways where two wheelers are banned, etc.
3. When roads are made with everyone’s tax money why should some groups be banned from using/enjoying the facility?

Counter-arguments:
1. It’s a safety thing, a car going at 120 sharing a dedicated expressway with an auto going at 40 is a recipe for disaster. There are bike paths, etc. where cars are not allowed.
2. Even when flying, if you have your own airplane there is still restricted airspace where you can’t fly. So it’s not just roads. Just the ways things are.
3. Nothing stops a person with a banned vehicle, say a scooter, from buying a car and then using that road as much as they want or can afford.

Thought it was an interesting discussion and one that Team-BHP members would like to discuss.

[amitoj]

I think the safety aspect of this outweighs everything else. Such roads are designed with a certain range of speeds in mind and anything outside of that range is a danger to themselves as well as to others.

[shankar.balan]

Everything in the World which can be obtained by paying money, is ‘Elitist’ in that sense. There will always be Haves and Have Nots. Thats the nature of the Capitalist World.

Coming to Dedicated Roads/ Lanes. Having this is an eminently sensible idea. For the reasons you yourself have stated. But enforcing them, especially in a country like India, is very hard indeed.

[DicKy]

Originally Posted by Pacifica

Basically, one group feels that dedicated roads are elitist:
Counter-arguments:

Quite natural for people who love riding and those who love driving to take opposite views in this subject.
Quoting myself from another thread

Originally Posted by DicKy

Before the thread turns into a cager VS crotch rocket fight.

Let us forget what is done in the Western world. They have a far different automobiles:two wheelers ratio. And due to their demographics and zoning laws, seldom would you find the freeways dotted with settlements along its course. Not to say, better sense to not take a moped on an intercity trip.

Our point of reference should be places that have similar automobiles:two wheelers ratio as us. Sometimes places that have even more two wheelers:automobiles than us. If you look at South east Asia, East Asia and Africa, vast majority of the places restrict two wheelers from expressways, heck even highways. So it isn't some unfair classist unjust thing happening in India alone.

Then it comes to actual implementation of law. And we know that even with rules, two wheelers will continue to slip onto the expressways if given a chance. Barricades or medians are meant to be broken so that the locals can slip their two wheelers through. This is a country where one can ride a battered Bajaj M80 in a figure of '8' and be eligible to ride a Hayabusa the next day. Less said about the number of uninsured vehicles in India and the share of two wheelers among them. So yes, in our country where sunfilms are banned, old cars can be banned by NGT whims, why not ban two wheelers from expressways. I don't see any 350+cc motorcyclists complaining why they are using the highways toll free, when they are able to pay the tolls and don't want any freebies.

In an ideal world, Yes. Motorcycles that are above 350cc and able to sustain 80+km/h can be allowed on expressways after paying toll.

But in the Indian scenario, No. Let there be a blanket ban on motorcycles/three wheelers/tractors of any kind for some years till it becomes the norm. Rules can always be changed, right.

[GTO]

I don't think so at all. Let's take a look at the banned vehicle classes:

"Entry of the following vehicles: Motor Cycle, Moped, 3 Wheeler Tempo, Auto Rickshaw, Tractor, Tractor With unladen trolley, Animal Drawn Vehicles & Slow Moving Vehicle will not be allowed on MTHL," they wrote on X on January 11

It can be argued that none of the above vehicles are used for intercity commutes, at least not long & speedy ones. For long distance commuting, cars + taxis + buses are the vehicles of choice, they can safely cruise at 80 - 100 kmph and are allowed on the Harbour Link.

I fully support the decision of not allowing 2-wheelers or slow vehicles on the Expressway, Harbour Link etc. On the other hand, I am not in favour of banning them on intracity bridges like the JJ Flyover. The JJ Flyover has a stupidly low speed limit of 35 kmph at certain places, which even a 100cc commuter bike can comfortably do.

[Turbanator]

But why Ban Motorcycles just because they have two wheels? How can a 300 cc or higher bike run slower than an Alto? But how to distinguish- that will be a big problem.

Maybe give FastTags to the bikers beyond a certain CC and let those bikes use the expressway?

[Rajeevraj]

'Elitism' in most cases is tied to money. Apart from specific scenarios or situations where just money will not get you something you want-In most cases if you are ok to spend the money, you can have the elite experience. Could be anything from travelling in AC vs 2nd sleeper, Business Class vs economy, train vs plane vs bus vs cab vs private car vs two wheeler, buying an entry car vs a BMW or even a Ferrari etc.. Money is typically what defines the levels of elitism that exists in the world today.

Here it is not so simple. Elitism based on money paid is mostly not the factor. I ride a bike, I am willing to pay the toll, I can comfortably be at the safe speeds the expressway needs but I am still not allowed to. A dedicated bus lane also raises the same questions. I have paid taxes and am driving a car, why cannot I drive where I want? We seemed to be acceptive of elitism based on money paid. When other factors come into play- I think 'elitism' probably becomes the wrong word, but in any case, it gives rise to a lot of debate with it's own pro's and cons.

I think the key point is that when you make something restricted, you need to ensure that for people who get impacted due to the restriction still have viable options and alternatives.

We are continuing to build massive dedicated road infra. Sooner or later there needs to be a thought on how people who are restricted from the same due to various reasons can also benefit from it. It could be tiered licensing, capacity based restrictions, dedicated lanes etc. Some solution needs to be thought through.

[humyum]

I think if we aim to be a global country on par with western powers, we must do away with this mentality of blanket ban of things.

Why can't a 250 cc + bike which can do 100-120 use the Atal Setu or the Sea link, why just blanket ban them based on the wheels? If speed is really the issue then trucks can never use flyovers or any of the expressways in India as most of them are slower than 150 cc bikes even with most of them having rated top speeds below 100. Also if speed is really the issue, then most highways in India allow two wheeler, go to Gujarat, Rajasthan etc and most of these highways have sections which have such superb roads and cars, bikes and bikes (of any cc) run in harmony, why is this allowed here then?

Two wheelers have categories, select a certain CC and bikes above which should be allowed on the expressway, freeway, Atal Setu and every highway. Let these guys enjoy the infrastructure too, in western countries that is how it works.

Laws need to be created with a more microscopic approach with maximum inclusiveness being the game.

[Divya Sharan]

As someone who loves riding, I find it taxing when I have to enter city roads because ORR isn't made accessible to me (talking to you Hyderabad), but we have had many mishaps in the past which brought about a blanket ban on a lot of things - 2 wheelers on ORR/expressways, tints etc.

Are they all meaningful? Probably not a 100%, but somewhere in between.
Are they easier to implement/monitor? Absolutely 100%!

Can my bikes do 100-120 sustained on the highways and expressways? Yes, almost all day long and it would be "me" who will give up first.
But can my bikes "always" outbrake a nano/Alto/Celerio from 120 to 0? Nope, it cannot be guaranteed!

For the record, I have a Ninja 650 and a Karizma ZMR which are good for long distance commutes but I don't challenge cars with them.
4 wheels = 4 sets of brakes on 4 contact patches which can balance themselves without human aid.

Inherently safer for the population when looking as a whole.
Its hurts some (enthusiasts + trained riders) but is mostly on the safer side for all. All law is like that, isn't it?

[SmartCat]

Mod note: Poll added

It is indeed elitist and hence all vehicles should be allowed.

1) This is public infrastructure and hence has to be open for everybody, as long as he is willing to pay.

2) Low speeds don't cause accidends. But an idiot driving slowly in the middle of the road might cause an accident. So the problem is not with the former (low speed) but the latter (driving in the middle of road). So safety solution is to enforce normal common sense rules (using cameras/cops).

3) There is no need to zip through a access controlled road at 100 kmph. If you drive at 60 to 80 kmph too, you will get to your destination in good time. Time savings at extra 10 or 20 kmph speed on a 20 kms driving stretch will be negligible.

4) Average speeds will anyway go down if there are a large number of vehicles using the access controlled road. On NICE road Bangalore during peak hours, it is sometimes difficult to get to 80 kmph.

5) If we don't get as many vehicles on this access controlled road as possible, we are defeating its only purpose - which is to decongest the city.

[youknowitbetter]

Access controlled roads have to be seen in terms of the context. On an expressway, yes, the two wheelers, 3 wheelers etc. should not be allowed. But like GTO said small intracity flyovers/roads cannot be restricted.

I have a slightly different take on the access control i.e. the lane discipline should be worked because if the same is not done properly, the highway speed limits and movement will not mean much in the real sense!

[SS-Traveller]

This is less about elitism and more about a distorted sense of safety as well as higher revenue generation from fines.

When the Delhi-Gurgaon Expressway opened, there was a similar ban on two- and three-wheelers and other slow-moving vehicles. Such slower vehicles were pulled up and penalized. Today, the road is a free-for-all mess, with all varieties of vehicles plying on it (including tractors) - there are no alternate roads to commute, and the average speed is less than 50 km/h nowadays.

For now, new roads, long bridges and expressways will have plenty of enforcement, and the fines will fill the authorities' coffers. In a few years, the volume of traffic will increase, law-breakers will overwhelm the enforcement system, and we'll find 2-wheelers happily mingling with fast cars on the Atal Setu and elsewhere. Accidents on Indian roads are so frequent that we are immune from the horror of such incidents, and a few more on these new high-speed roads will not worry anyone.

Till then, drive safe, and I pray that members of this forum will not be involved in any of those spectacular crashes that are so common on our new-age roads, bridges and expressways.

[SS-Traveller]

The Minister for Road Transport & Highways has said there will be no free travel for anyone. There can be no elitist angle here - everyone pays.

https://twitter.com/RajeshNain/statu...74379360460965

[Kosfactor]

Before Voting, I would suggest those who are in Bangalore to plan a trip to Mysore on a motorcycle

[tilt]

I notice that many people here say that motorcycles should be allowed on limited access roads since they too (can afford to) pay the toll.

However, they do not pay tolls, motorcycles are exempt, no? Therefore, I am all for letting slow motorcycles on toll roads, as long as they too pay the same toll as the so-called elites.

Cheers