[DirtyDan]

Originally Posted by vikram_d

I agree with Tanveer. This is a natural calamity which can strike anywhere. Oh and by the way I did it in a Maruti.

I agree with Tanveer also. I don't see a disagreement...Leh itself has great roads. Getting there is another story. A lot of people make it in a Maruti. A lot of people smoke tobacco. That does not make it wise. It's a natural calamity that can happen anywhere? You are missing the point. The point is that it is a wild place and that statistically it is more dangerous than a lot of other places. A large number of people died on the Manali road just last November in fact.

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by DirtyDan

I agree with Tanveer also. A lot of people make it in a Maruti. A lot of people smoke tobacco. That does not make it wise.

So Dan tell me, how does being in a Maruti or being in a hummer make a difference in a flash flood. BTW, near your place of residence, there are some low lying areas(with proper roads) which are very prone to flash floods. In the past, easily motorable villages in HP have been washed away due to cloudburst.
If you are generally saying going to leh in a SUV is safer, I would agree with you, but if you say a particular vehicle will save you from a flash flood, I would say you are just scare mongering,

[vikram_d]

Originally Posted by DirtyDan

I agree with Tanveer also. I don't see a disagreement...Leh itself has great roads. Getting there is another story. A lot of people make it in a Maruti. A lot of people smoke tobacco. That does not make it wise. It's a natural calamity that can happen anywhere? You are missing the point. The point is that it is a wild place and that statistically it is more dangerous than a lot of other places. A large number of people died on the Manali road just last November in fact.

OK I agree with your explanation. But I also believe in something called Fate. Whatever will be, will be. Bu that is not going to stop me from making this trip again in the future.

[prince_pervez]

Pah! Sad thing to happen to near Paradise. I hope every one is safe, Bhpain or Non Bhpian.

[vivekiny2k]

Originally Posted by prince_pervez

Pah! Sad thing to happen to near Paradise. I hope every one is safe, Bhpain or Non Bhpian.

exactly. We know there are casualties, just hope we can recover from the losses and rescue the survivors.

[wanderhermit]

Originally Posted by Rudra Sen

Cloud bursts roughly means more than 100 cm of rain an hour. In reality that's heavier than we can possibly imagine.

There must be loads of tourists in Leh now. Hope things come under control soon.

Wikipedia is saying that Leh recieved 48 mm in one minute. Thats a lot, even by the way a cloudburst is defined.

Originally Posted by DirtyDan

They are not prepared for it up there, they don't have the infrastructure to channel off large amounts of water and the storms hit them at night.

Both the Kargil route and Manali route are closed at the moment due to road/bridge damage. People, tourists had to walk out of some parts of the Manali road 80K to safety....

and every few months I see posts on this site affirming that the roads are safe and you can do them in a Maruti.....

.....The point is that it is a wild place and that statistically it is more dangerous than a lot of other places. A large number of people died on the Manali road just last November in fact.

Maruti has nothing to do with Leh being safe or not. If you have good weather, you can go in Maruti also. In a bad weather, you won't be safe in a big truck, if the whole mountain is coming down.

And BTW what is this debate about Leh being safe or not. You can have cloudburst in Bombay. That happened on July 26, 2005.
Or even get killed by a bomb on a railway station or a crowded market place.

Or even get shot dead having dinner in a fancy hotel or cafe.

3000 people die every year on local trains of Mumbai. Just check out how many die on Delhi roads.

You might get shot even in parliament of India. That was December 13 , 2001.

Where on earth can you not be killed in a natural calamity, accident or an incident.

[neel385]

Sad what happened!! Places that makes one awestruck by the beauty of nature is now struck by nature herself. Such is file I guess!!

P.S Mods, does this thread really belong in the Street and Travel Experiences segment?

[DirtyDan]

The problem is not just flood water and the problem is not just Leh. For those of you who can not see passed this or have not been following the news let me inform you that both major roads into Leh have been cut in several places in a radius extending out to at least 125K from Leh. There are several washouts and landslides that have damaged the already poor quality road. Many people are stranded in remote areas. Rescue vehicles have been hampered by stalled and stuck trucks and cars that are blocking the way. Now, if you were out in some remote area far from Leh under these conditions would you rather be in a sturdy 4x4 or in a Maruti Alto?

3000 people die every year on local trains of Mumbai.

And, Mr. Wanderhermit, if you are telling me that a train death in Mumbai is reason not to take proper care in wild and remote Ladakh, then I have to tell you...I don't want to travel with you.

[Technocrat]

Damn this is really bad to know, I hope the casualties are minimum & that roads get opened soon.

[hvkumar]

Manali-Leh road is closed at 2 places:

- Rahni Nullah, 3 kms before Rohtang Pass, due to heavy rain-induced landslides. This point has been tormenting motorists and BRO this season

- the river bridge at Darcha has been washed away

The Kargil-Leh road is closed:

- Nimmu is islanded due to landslides and bridge being washed away

The road approaching Leh from Manali side is via Choglamsar (5 kms before Leh) which is where the mud slide started. If you remember, after Choglamsar, you climb up a hill and descend to Leh, this is the hill which has collapsed and caused the mud slide. The road must be also part of the mud lying in Leh old market and airport runway!

BSNL phones are still down and no hotel can be contacted since they all have BSNL landlines. The main market area of Leh (Fort Road, etc) are all fine, it is the entry point to Leh from the round (petrol pump)/airport side that have been affected.

[kpzen]

- BSNL exchange has been washed out. So, don't think it will revive soon.
- Airtel and Aircel have started working.
- Mahindra/ Maruti service center got partly water logged.
- Huge damage on Manali route 5~10 kms from Leh. Couple of colonies have vanished from that area.
- Higher areas (main market) of Leh are fine.

[hvkumar]

Originally Posted by kpzen

- Mahindra/ Maruti service center got partly water logged.
- Huge damage on Manali route 5~10 kms from Leh. Couple of colonies have vanished from that area.

The M&M and Maruti service stations are near the main bus stand/Round which is the slop down which the mud slid down, so must have inflicted severe damage on all the workshops in Leh.

Choglamsar is 5 kms up the Manali road and that is from where the mud slide happened (epicentre, so to say), so the road is closed and unless that happens, the road to Karu/Manali will not open.

[deky]

Given the fact that Leh region has never recorded devastation due to rains in its recorded history, conspiracy theories have already started to do their rounds.

There are hints of "cloud seeding" angle being discussed.

Can this be true?

[DirtyDan]

Originally Posted by deky

Given the fact that Leh region has never recorded devastation due to rains in its recorded history, conspiracy theories have already started to do their rounds.

There are hints of "cloud seeding" angle being discussed.

Can this be true?

There are also floods and casualties in China and Pakistan. The rains reached all the way down to Dharamsala, though not unusually heavy here, 180 straight arrow kilometers from Leh. Too wide spread and too much damage to the usual suspects for seeding I think.

I have had to deal with local road washouts and bridges washed away each time I have been on the Manali-Leh road but the problems in the past have been confined to a few kilometers. This year the area affected is very large.

[wanderernomad]

What happened is tragic. Cloud bursts are becoming more and more common in the Himalayas now. Infact the National Geo magazine April 2010 issue on water reports that the amount of precipitation coupled with melting glaciers have added a lot of pressure on the ecology of the Himalayas.China has been regularly seeding the clouds in Tibet according to the issue. But seeding on Tibet side would not have such an effect towards this side due to the natural divide. Plus the topography and the geography of Leh makes it even more dangerous a place to be in in such events. Cloud bursts have been occurring almost annuallyin HP for the last 3,4 years. Chirgaon, Pooh, Manali.
May the departed souls RIP.