[embee]

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[1.2TSI7DSG]

Originally Posted by GTO

Ah, you speak of the time of the W124s, W126s and the simply indestructible W123s. Mark my words, 50 years from now, there will be more W124s in running condition than W212s.

That Land Rover is right next to my fathers office (next to where he parks his Manza)
It pains every time when I see the vehicle.

The same conversation happens every time I go to his office

Me - lets pick it up if its less than 3 lakhs
Dad- Lets get a used Zen carbon for 3 lakhs
Me- I love the zen carbon but the Landrover is so much more for the money
Dad- Find a Zen carbon, we will buy it
Me- what about this one
Dad- yes we will buy the Zen Carbon

[FINTAIL]

There was a time, when a Mercedes Benz was something to be really proud of. Your car just screamed of quality and charm all round. Not only that- the car was indestructable. You could do whatever you wanted.

Like planting an explosive underneath your 1974 W116 S-Class. Below the fuel tank.

Fret not- the car was over-enginnered. The fuel tank was fire proof. In an accident- if the entire rear of the car was crushed, the tank would still not cause a fire to occur.

You could rally your car. Use it as a taxi. Heck, you could even abuse her every day. Revv the living daylights out of her engine. But one thing is certain- the next morning, she would be guaranteed to start. THAT, is for certain.

You could drive your car for three decades in the dusty, non existent African roads. The odds are, three decades later, the car will still be running on it's original engine- without any overhaul.

Well maintained W123's / W124's have been known to go beyond the 1 million kilometer mark, without any engine overhauls. Yep, that's right, 10 LAKH kilometers, WITHOUT the engine being opened up.

Here's how a 1.2 Million kilometre run W123 300TD starts up on a cold, snowy morning. Many 'modern' cars I know will take up more time to start up. Kindly refer to: (Use earphones for better clarity)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC0oWGkUc9A

Speaks a lot of Mercedes Benz quality, eh?

What went wrong all of a sudden?

Well, owing to make their cars all the more competitive, most German carmakers adopted electronics. And their cars went on becoming more complicated than ever before.

Your average Polo GT TSi is less reliable, than say, a Sixties / Seventies VW 1200 / 1300 - a.k.a the VW Beetle.

If you ask me to differentiate between a W111 Fintail / a W126; and the W222-

The W111 / W126 is simple, rugged, refined - and yeah, it is classy.

The W222? She's a snob. One of the most complicated cars ever built. Not a single bulb anywhere in the car. One is literally surrounded by LED's. Everywhere. And yeah, she's refined. Very very refined.

In fact, she's quieter than a Rolls Royce.

But? Yeah, she's NOT rugged. She's not simple. She's got loads of sensors everywhere. Tons of them. Millions of them. And if one of them fails....

Sigh. The car will start giving troubles. Refuse to start. And you'll wonder, what the heck?

She started up perfectly- in half a crank yesterday.

Without access to the Star diagnostic system- it is really difficult to pinpoint, where- in the HUGE 14962500000 mm cube of volume the car occupies - where, and which exact sensor has gone wrong.

That, in a nutshell sums up the issue. The cars have become waayyy too complicated. But they still retain their charm. And their classiness.

To quote the old adage- A Rolex is a Rolex. A Merc is a Merc. Period.

___________________________________

P.S; Barring the S-Class and some other expensive Merc cars- the C and E are pretty reliable cars. I've seen an acquaintances 2009 E250 CDi W212 go beyond the 1,25,000 kilometer mark.

The W212 is very reliable, believe it or not. Yeah, admittedly, the W210 and the W211 E-Classes, along with the W220 / W221 S - Classes are worth forgetting. Not very reliable- and very, very expensive to maintain.

The W212 E is a massive step up in terms of reliability for Mercedes Benz- and believe it or not- it still feels like a W123. The wooden dashboard accents are still there, the analogue clock is still there, the relatively stiff ride quality is still there. The doors still very heavy. They shut with a 'thud'.

Yeah, it isn't as tough or as bulletproof as the W123. But it is still pretty reliable. As thousands of European taxi drivers can testify.

I'm pretty sure some W212's have gone beyond the one million kilometer mark by now. Heck, if the W211 could do it- surely the W212 will better it!

Auf Wiedersehen!

[maverhick]

I've just put my deposit on a high end BMW 7 which is out of the warranty period.

I searched on T-BHP if there were discussions where people who owned these vehicles Merc E, S or BMW 5,7s, Jaguars beyond their warranty period and what kind of independent garages they used.

Would be happy to hear from others, services from where they order their spare parts and also get their vehicles repaired beyond their A.S.S

[TheTeacher]

Granted, fixing these older luxury vehicles does not make financial sense. But does letting them rot? Why not a win-win situation where the owner of the car sells it to be scavenged for parts and get some money instead of none, and owners of similar cars get spares at a cheaper price?

[octane1002]

Originally Posted by maverhick

I've just put my deposit on a high end BMW 7 which is out of the warranty period.

I searched on T-BHP if there were discussions where people who owned these vehicles Merc E, S or BMW 5,7s, Jaguars beyond their warranty period and what kind of independent garages they used.

Would be happy to hear from others, services from where they order their spare parts and also get their vehicles repaired beyond their A.S.S

Ive seen BMW 3/5 being repaired at independent garages which handle Skodas/VW cars.However the work done most of the times has been suspension/cooling related work.Dont know if independant garages can handle complex engine repairs . The reason I say so is that these cars , more so the 7 series require proper diagnostic tools for zeroing in on faulty electricals/sensors.

That said, which 7 have you picked up?If its a previous gen "bangled" version, these cars have known problems with their cooling/suspension.

Also a 730 Ld diesel version would have a fairly lesser complex engine than say a 740/750i bi-turbo.The 750i bi-turbo is notorious for its turbo /gearbox failures and Im not sure that an independent garage would be able to do much if and when they fail.

[maverhick]

Originally Posted by octane1002

Ive seen BMW 3/5 being repaired at independent garages which handle Skodas/VW cars.However the work done most of the times has been suspension/cooling related work.Dont know if independant garages can handle complex engine repairs . The reason I say so is that these cars , more so the 7 series require proper diagnostic tools for zeroing in on faulty electricals/sensors.

That said, which 7 have you picked up?If its a previous gen "bangled" version, these cars have known problems with their cooling/suspension.

Also a 730 Ld diesel version would have a fairly lesser complex engine than say a 740/750i bi-turbo.The 750i bi-turbo is notorious for its turbo /gearbox failures and Im not sure that an independent garage would be able to do much if and when they fail.

I've picked up a 2010 version with the bi-turbo. It was a gamble. The showroom had done work on the engine to eradicate some of the issues under a goodwill warranty. The transmission/gear box is still a risk. Asked them to get a transmission flush done before I take the delivery.

You are right - I suspect Engine/Transmission related work might be be handled well at the Independent garages. I wanted to use this thread to create a repository of sorts. Let people know where suspensions can be handled, find out who can program some of the codes, source replace the lights if necessary etc

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by TheTeacher

Why not a win-win situation where the owner of the car sells it to be scavenged for parts and get some money instead of none, and owners of similar cars get spares at a cheaper price?

That happens as well, but the refurbished/scrap markets in India are not well organised and hence a lot of these cars just rot away.

Also, what is a couple of lacs (the amount of money a scrap dealer would offer at most) to a person who has let his S-Class rot on the road? Further, most of them are very busy in their lives and do not spend that kind of time and effort for something which is trivial to them.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by maverhick

I've picked up a 2010 version with the bi-turbo. It was a gamble.

Is this the 2010 750 with a twin turbo V8? If so, you are a brave man. No one wants to touch it in the used market as the engine has a notorious reputation. There was one on sale in my area for 6+ months, but no one was willing to touch it with a barge pole.

I was tempted at the thought of a V8 for 25 lakhs, but spoke to someone in BMW who advised me to stay away from it. The engine is incredibly complex. What's worse, it has a poor track record of reliability.

If I were you, I'd cancel this deposit. You are asking for trouble. It's complex, it's unreliable and it is incredibly expensive to fix.

[maverhick]

Originally Posted by GTO

Is this the 2010 750 with a twin turbo V8? If so, you are a brave man. No one wants to touch it in the used market as the engine has a notorious reputation. There was one on sale in my area for 6+ months, but no one was willing to touch it with a barge pole.

I was tempted at the thought of a V8 for 25 lakhs, but spoke to someone in BMW who advised me to stay away from it. The engine is incredibly complex. What's worse, it has a poor track record of reliability.

If I were you, I'd cancel this deposit. You are asking for trouble. It's complex, it's unreliable and it is incredibly expensive to fix.

It is - the 2010 - twin turbo V8. It came as a Certified BMW. They did some major work on it because it was drinking oil. But it was fixed under an extended goodwill warranty. I spend an hour test driving it and decided it was a buy. But hey, we all make bad decisions when we've recently done some good speeds on a vehicle.

You are right, its a risk and I went knowing it fully. If this doesn't end well - ah well.

[TheLizardKing]

Originally Posted by v12

2 Merc W220 S Class' abandoned

This is the parking lot in Juhu isn't it? I once parked my humble Polo between these two cars, and as I was walking away, I tried to imagine what stories would be exchanged between the three Germans while I was away...

Mods: I know it is , but I hope you will allow this one.

[akshay4587]

Excellent Thread!!!

Talking of the W220's, right away, the primary reason for them getting abandoned is the Air Suspension job.
Come to think of it, the replacement needs to be done in pairs; repair bills for such a job at Mercedes after sales would be more than the car's value,
which does not make economic sense for a person who thinks of cars as objects.

And as everyone has said, the car may have a resale of 5L right now, but repair bills will always be of a 80L car.
If one can find a good workshop and a source for parts, then all the jobs can be done at less than half of what it would cost at after sales.
And there are kits like these, which replace the Airmatic with conventional suspension at the cost of magic carpet ride quality, but your car keeps running at least.

http://www.amazon.com/Airmatic-Suspe.../dp/B00FD9DBD6

Next is lack of good workshops, i own a W124 E220 , which is a relatively simple car, however,
18 months into the ownership, i am yet to find a technician who knows the car in and out.
Few months into the ownership, i ran into an issue, upon getting it checked at various places,
i got suggestions like replace timing chain to taking the whole engine apart!!!!
Eventually i fixed the issue on my own after some research on W124 forums.
So the more complex the car is, either you take it to after sales, or be a DIY guy.

Had received these pictures a few months back.
A good cheap workshop, does not mean that you should take your bentley to such a place for work

[sunishsamuel]

From my limited experience, most of the cars (barring the notorious ones) probably went bust for some obvious reasons:

1) Most of them were made for countries that better fuel quality. We always had a problem with bad fuel and obviously damaging the fuel systems. Add to the misery, most of the ones who bought the cars never knew about it till the cars failed.

2) The jugaad shops

a) lot of the mechanics of the past were the ones who became good at their job over a long period of time and thanks to the on job training. I do not think many passionately took the job of car repairing and the technical know how is nil. For eg: one of the mech who used to fixed my bike likes fiddling around with the carburetors to get the twin cylinders fire in unison, refuses to do it technically- like setting the right no of turns, using the right size jets etc. He believes in poking around and fixing it - will never be reliable long term. Such people ruining these kind of cars is not an unknown story and the cars left to rot in their workshops or on the roads !

b) Retro fit - Another type of jugaad. Fix an ambassador carburetor on a 1970's Ford car, no technical analysis of the size of the jets, manifolds, amount of fuel needed etc. So obviously the car failed. My neighbor had to eventually discard the car for scrap value even though the looks were still awesome - the car looked like a contessa, but very magnificent. He eventually picked up a maruti and recently upgraded to a merc auto, now driven by a chauffeur.

3) Our lack of love for automobiles - For some car is like the next member of the family, so would go any extra mile needed to get the right spare part/care. However, for the majority, car is more of a mode of transport. When a situation arise to replace a spare part, they are given options - original or duplicate ? Price difference between both would be extreme ends. So obviously duplicate wins and the car is bust in few months !

A few years back, i went hunting for a good used merc or BMW's, especially the petrol ones that could satisfy my urge to own one. The ones under warranty were priced beyond my budget and the ones without were purchased ridiculously low, with parts and botched up repairs that would shame even the cycle repair guys. So i decided not to pursue that dream till i can afford something genuine.

[Sem80-88]

What you say is true. The E38 I bought had bits and pieces missing all over the place. it took me a lot of time and effort to get it back to proper shape

[Mtv]

Originally Posted by akshay4587

Excellent Thread!!!

Talking of the W220's, right away, the primary reason for them getting abandoned is the Air Suspension job.

Third picture with the Bentley in one piece, what is that car in the background?