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Old 9th February 2018, 08:23   #1
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Default Harley-Davidson recalls 251,000 motorcycles worldwide

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...w/62830807.cms

CHICAGO: American motorcycle giant Harley-Davidson has voluntarily recalled more than 251,000 motorcycles worldwide over a brake failure issue.

The recall covers CVO Touring and VSRC bikes equipped with anti-lock brakes, with model years from 2008 to 2011, reports Xinhua news agency.

Harley-Davidson, headquartered in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, said the recall would cost the company $29.4 million. Nearly 175,000 of those effected motorcycles were sold in the US.
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Old 9th February 2018, 09:20   #2
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson recalls 251,000 motorcycles worldwide

It's bad enough their market share is on a downward trend, and now this. HD really needs to pull something out of the bag of tricks soon.
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Old 9th February 2018, 09:25   #3
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson recalls 251,000 motorcycles worldwide

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Originally Posted by MadRasTan4986 View Post
It's bad enough their market share is on a downward trend, and now this.
Let's not view recalls negatively. It's a positive move for owners of the said vehicles. Sure takes a responsible manufacturer to accept a flaw in their products & roll out a recall.

Every recall is a step forward .
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Old 9th February 2018, 09:45   #4
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson recalls 251,000 motorcycles worldwide

While a recall is always a good thing from an owner's perspective and something which shows that the manufacturer is taking responsibility, I can't understand why it took them more than 7 years to do so?

Even if its to do with corrosion they must have noticed it & surely some owners would have complained about it earlier. That brings up another question as to whether they were pushed to do it, after the investigation started?
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Old 9th February 2018, 10:04   #5
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson recalls 251,000 motorcycles worldwide

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Originally Posted by Vishnuk View Post
While a recall is always a good thing from an owner's perspective and something which shows that the manufacturer is taking responsibility, I can't understand why it took them more than 7 years to do so?

Even if its to do with corrosion they must have noticed it & surely some owners would have complained about it earlier. That brings up another question as to whether they were pushed to do it, after the investigation started?
Well, firstly after owners start coming in randomly for brake related issues, data needs to be collected and the data should support to show a trend in such failures. Then analysis should show that the issues seen on the field are all related to a design or quality shortcoming.
Then the fix for that should coming needs to be designed and tested - to validate that it would certainly address the issue, while also making sure it would not lead to any other impacts or issues due to this new design change. And after this comes the Production part approval process (PPAP) to put the new part into production - which is quite a lengthy process by itself.
Then comes protecting the assembly line, to ensure no more defective parts are sent out of the factory gates.
Meanwhile, they would have figured out the number of vehicles on the field that would need this change and have sufficient quantities of parts produced and then finally comes the announcement.

While it may seem like a really long time, I am pretty sure that the company would have not been whiling away time with an open issue to address.
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Old 9th February 2018, 10:22   #6
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson recalls 251,000 motorcycles worldwide

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Let's not view recalls negatively. It's a positive move for owners of the said vehicles. Sure takes a responsible manufacturer to accept a flaw in their products & roll out a recall.

Every recall is a step forward .
I agree with your POV. A car and bike I own both got issued recalls. I had no issues no panic and it was good to see manufacturers take responsibility and own up.

But in terms of HD and all the circumstances surrounding them today; the cost of the recall may not affect them much, but market and brand perception will take a hit; considering the latest news of even the prospect of the Kansas plant closing, you can't help but view this in a cautious and negative tone.
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Old 9th February 2018, 11:12   #7
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson recalls 251,000 motorcycles worldwide

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Originally Posted by aravind.anand View Post
While it may seem like a really long time, I am pretty sure that the company would have not been whiling away time with an open issue to address.
I agree with what you have stated on the recall process, but it is not applicable for this particular case.

Also the question which I had was whether they did this voluntarily or they were pressurized to do so after the investigation started. A bit of googling confirmed that they were pressurized to do so by the NHTSA, as this was more of a user issue of not replacing the oil as per the manufacturer's recommendation. Some press reports say that HD just wanted to do a service campaign instead of a recall, but the government refused.

Also it doesn't take so much time time to come up with a replacement for such parts, after all they released the Street 750 with better brakes in about a couple of years after the original one was launched, but as far as I know they never changed the brakes on the original one. Have a look at this thread.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/superb...50-brakes.html

If we had something like NHTSA in India, HD would have probably replaced the first batch of Street's brakes without any cost to the owners.
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Old 9th February 2018, 11:42   #8
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson recalls 251,000 motorcycles worldwide

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Originally Posted by Vishnuk View Post
after all they released the Street 750 with better brakes in about a couple of years after the original one was launched, but as far as I know they never changed the brakes on the original one. Have a look at this thread.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/superb...50-brakes.html

If we had something like NHTSA in India, HD would have probably replaced the first batch of Street's brakes without any cost to the owners.
I do know about the brake issue of the HD Street 750, but IMHO that would not be covered under a recall. Simple reason, it was not a failure of the intended function but was rather the case of poor design. The customer would have experienced it during the TD too, and chose to buy the bike knowing that - much like the millions of Swift users, who are still driving around with weak brakes. So when Maruti improves the brakes in the new gen Swift, it is unfair to expect the company to replace the brakes for all existing Swift users. If the brake would fail without a warning during operation, then I would expect a recall to address it.

All said, I would still hold HD responsible for selling the original Street 750 with weak brakes
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Old 9th February 2018, 15:33   #9
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson recalls 251,000 motorcycles worldwide

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Originally Posted by MadRasTan4986 View Post
But in terms of HD and all the circumstances surrounding them today; the cost of the recall may not affect them much, but market and brand perception will take a hit; considering the latest news of even the prospect of the Kansas plant closing, you can't help but view this in a cautious and negative tone.
So you would have been happier if HD kept quiet regarding this issue?

Shouldn't we appreciate even more then - that even in such tough times and knewing their brand could take a further hit - that they went ahead and announced a recall?

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 9th February 2018 at 15:36.
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Old 9th February 2018, 15:55   #10
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson recalls 251,000 motorcycles worldwide

The phrase 'recall' used by the media may need changing. I believe these pro-active actions are a sign of OEM maturity and concern for customer safety. There is nothing wrong with a recall after 7 years. Some defects take time to surface.

In my profession (aviation) OEMs put out service bulletins of compulsory or optional modifications/upgrades all the time. Every major maintenance finding or God forbid accident is scrutinized in detail, rectification arrived at and then put out by the OEM universally. The OEM then works with the maintainers /users to get the changes effected. Because knowledge is shared liberally and almost always free of cost it isn't seen as a failure. It takes a brave and mature OEM to admit something may be wrong.
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Old 9th February 2018, 16:16   #11
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson recalls 251,000 motorcycles worldwide

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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
So you would have been happier if HD kept quiet regarding this issue?

Shouldn't we appreciate even more then - that even in such tough times and knewing their brand could take a further hit - that they went ahead and announced a recall?
Upon further reading about this recall, IMO this isn't even direct finger pointing at Harley (so to speak) as the brake failure happens when the brake fluid isn't replaced every 2 years as is already noted in the manual. So, in essence if the users don't comply by the manual it has bad results, any surprises here?. Now, what happens if the riders again don't get the fluid changed in 2 years time?

The fix (fluid replacement) was proposed to be a done as a field service campaign but the US authorities didn't allow. NHTSA, take a bow! This system is where I won't complain about taxes. And Indian authorities, take a cue.
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Old 12th February 2018, 14:24   #12
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson recalls 251,000 motorcycles worldwide

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
So you would have been happier if HD kept quiet regarding this issue?
To answer your question. No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Shouldn't we appreciate even more then - that even in such tough times and knewing their brand could take a further hit - that they went ahead and announced a recall?
Yes definitely.

All I am saying is that it's bad timing for them. That's all. Peace
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Old 12th February 2018, 16:58   #13
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson recalls 251,000 motorcycles worldwide

Although the word 'Recall' is loosely used in most cases, as per my conversation with a BMW Motorrad rep many years back, he told me normally they have 3 major classifications namely - Service Campaign, Recall & Stop Ride order.

Service Campaign: Normally, this would just be a correction with a different part or something minor which is just rectifying a small anomaly that does not have any serious safety or other life threatening issues.

Recall: This is in most cases performance and safety related. Not doing it can also potentially cause damage to vehicle & also possibly hurt/kill the vehicle user.

Stop Ride/Drive: Happens rarely where multiple users have reported serious problems (including life-threatening) and the manufacturer still does not have a cure and doesnt want to be hit with law suits or negative publicity. Recent case was the 2014 BMW R1200RT when introduced had a rear electronic suspension collapsing problem. I was also among the people that rode that new bike in the Adriatic region just 3 days prior to that Stop ride order! Fortunately I & wife made it without any issues although the engine kill switch on our new bike broke and that was on recall! Similarly the recent R1200GS Stanchion problem was also a Stop ride/Recall.

Note:
I am only giving BMW example coz I have been following them closely due to my love for BMW bikes and just for information as per BMW recall policy, it doesnt matter where you bought your bike, BMW will still honor the recall at your nearest dealer even if its some years later. Few years back when I had written to BMW germany about some issue (before BMW Motorrad India started), with my VIN number they told me there are 5 recalls on my particular bike and I can take it to a BMW dealer to do it F-O-C. I had anyway remedied 3 of them myself so I didnt bother to take it to them later.

Anyways almost all manufacturers across the globe have recall issues and I personally think its a 50-50% scenario between doing it on their own and being forced to do it.

Last edited by Haroon : 12th February 2018 at 17:00.
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Old 13th February 2018, 02:30   #14
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson recalls 251,000 motorcycles worldwide

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Originally Posted by Vishnuk View Post
If we had something like NHTSA in India, HD would have probably replaced the first batch of Street's brakes without any cost to the owners.
They wouldn't have had any choice if ordered to do so.

My personal view is that those failures are less a recall type issue & more to do with unrealistic expectations of HD performance by Indian users who, if they lived in a country with a more mature used market, probably wouldn't choose a new low budget Harley cruiser in the first place.

As I reported on the 750 thread, my friend managed to completely overheat the rear brake on an 883 sportster out in the mountains of Europe riding quickly with a pillion. American cruisers just aren't designed to be ragged like that - the Triumph I was riding with him was fine.
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