[man_of_steel]

Originally Posted by james

.. Did they fold the big ones?..

Just a little bit curious. The fold marks on the decals will not show if applied correctly with a little bit of heat, right?

[james]

Originally Posted by man_of_steel

Just a little bit curious. The fold marks on the decals will not show if applied correctly with a little bit of heat, right?

This is partially correct. However, if the decal has been folder over some letter (i.e. CBR/Fireblade) or design, when its heated and stuck to the panel, a keen eye will be able to notice the stretch/hazy look at the point where it was heated and straightened.

Cheers!

[BowMan]

Originally Posted by knrn

Thanks bowman for that info.
The reason I asked because even I am into the same dilemma as you are. Recent into motorcycles and moving on from a 150 cc to a 350 cc bike I own presently, even I feel same with old tech, vibrations and unreliability being dished out in the name of heritage. Was thinking of a sportster in the 2018 line up but these issues keep boggling me and kept me on tenterhooks. I mean motorcycles are meant to liberate us and not enchain us in the doldrums of short range or troubles of reliability.
Because of the comfort on offer I was more inclined towards an adventure tourer. Thanks for clearing the clouds and happy biking. Would love to see a travelogue by you of a great ride.
Keep revvin.
Cheers.

I'm happy if you gained something from my experience. Do keep us posted on which one you end up buying :-)

Originally Posted by mh09ad5578

Wow, nice thread! Great details and insights. I too love these sports bikes from about a decade back. I feel they are pure power, and very reliable too without all the messy electronics. Also the design is very clean and minimalistic. I keep ogling at all the r1s and the cbrs available for 5 to 6 lakhs- amazing vfm for incredible engineering marvels. Me being a harley man (sportster at that) I can only appreciate it not own it. Maybe if I too have a man cave with 3 to 4 bikes, I'll have one of these for me to go crazy with the rocket once in a while. Keep them coming bro, loving the insight
Ps- you are almost a pro with the paint. That's why you can't trust others to do a shoddy work with it. I can understand why you do it yourself. Wish I had the skills, need to paint my sporty after it had a fall and am nervous to trust any paint professional

Painting a bike is not that hard really. Someone with average skills and very little tools can do it. I have a small compressor with me and three spray guns. One cheap one for primer and two each for base and clear. However someone with rattle cans can also do the job and get a really good finish. Practice on something before trying your hand on the sporty.

Originally Posted by james

Bowman, congratulations on a picking up a splendid bike. Sbk's have always interested me especially the older gen ones. When i opened the thread and saw its yours, i knew it was going to be a very interesting ownership thread and possibly a restoration diary- Oh how right I was. I bet this bike is going to turn out as nicely as your W123(which i am a big fan of BTW) turned out.


This list speaks volumes of your taste in bikes.


Thank you for sharing this. I was looking for good decals for my bike since years but never came across the right one. They were either exorbitantly priced or didn't have the right look/color etc. How much did shipping the decals cost you? Did they fold the big ones? How is the print, thickness and adhesive? Im motivated to re-paint my bike to the OE color from the plain black it is now. https://moto-sticker.com/Honda-CBR-9...ON-STICKER-SET


Cant wait to see the rest! Hoping to see more updates on the bike.

Cheers!

Wow you have a CBR 900RR

The decals from this guy are reputed to be second only to OEM stuff. And he claims to be licensed by all these manufacturers in the use of their trademarks.

How much did shipping the decals cost you? My set was 55 Euros for the OEM replacement decals and 24 Euros for some other stuff (wheel stripes etc.). Shipping on both was 12 Euros.

Did they fold the big ones? He rolled them into a cardboard tube which looks similar to the ones used by Distillers to package their bottles.

How is the print? Very good, I can not tell the difference except a couple of points. I would say 99% people will not be able to tell the difference.

Thickness and adhesive? He uses very good vinyl. No problems here. The decals also took clear coat without any curling or lifting at all.

He also sends a squeegee with every set of decals and has very good videos on how to apply then. On the 900RR I think most of the surfaces are simple and it should not be too challenging.

Okay now some updates.

As I had mentioned earlier, the bike had some issues with I think are related to fueling - bogging and hesitation once the fuel level is on the lower side. I had noticed that when the previous owner had repainted the tank the painter had not properly covered and taped the fuel cap hole and a lot of basecoat had deposited on the inside of the tank. I had a feeling this basecoat is lifting off the surface with the fuel and choking the fuel lines/filter. I wanted to undo the fuel pump and clean the inside of the tank and check the filter but I noticed that the fuel pump was glued on to the tank with what looks like silicone sealant. This probably means the fuel gasket (if there) is not in good condition and I decided I will first order a set of gasket and fuel filter before I undo the fuel pump.

But while I was there I also noticed a few other things. The pressurized fuel link from the pump has abanjo bolt that should be slotted in a U clamp. Someone had decided not to route the fuel line through the clamp but in the opposite end creating a sever kink in the rubber fuel line.





This is how the line has to be routed. Corrected this immediately.



I will not take up the challenge to open the fuel pump as yet, without the necessary parts (gasket and filter). The F4I has a electronic fault code reading system and my bike is clean - so seems all the sensors are okay.



I also noticed that the banjo bolt crush washers were re used on the fuel tank side. And the injector side banjo had one washer missing. Added a few things to my To Do list.



I also have bought a new set of tires for the bike. I decided on Metzeller ROADTECH 1. The decision was between these and the Mitchelin Road Pilot 4. In the end I decided for the Metzeler because they are more of a Sport/Sport Touring oriented rubbers. While the Mitchelin are firmly in the Sport Touring end of spectrum. With every iteration of Road Pilots Mitchelin have been claiming 20% more like out of the tyres. The Metzelers are perhaps a bit more sportier with the trade the tradeoff being they might not last as much. To me that was not the biggest factor and I intend to change my rubbers after 5 years anyways. Perhaps I will do a a seperate review of these tires. Here she is getting herself a new set of shoes.

[BowMan]

Couple of updates guys.

Few days ago I had ordered preload adjusters for my front forks. Honda had cheaped out a bit towards the end of their production run and the 2006 mode came with non adjsutable front forks. I thought some preload would be required since I had stiffened up the rear.

The adjusters came in yesterday. These are how they look.







So today morning I was in christmas mood and could not wait to work on the bike.

As soon as I opened the fork caps I noticed a damping rod. and I knew the caps are not going on the bike.



This was perhaps the only change I wished to make to the bike. Otherwise I planned to keep in completely stock. Now it seems that won't be the case and the previous owners moto of keeping bikes stock will continue.

I have decided to put the fork caps on sale. Anyone with a KTM or similar bike with a 43 mm front form who wants to add them to his bike can please contact me.

The other update is more like a discussion I am having with myself and would love to bounce things of someone who knows these Japnese inline 4s.

I have been trying to diagnose the bogging/hesitation issue. So far I have identified a few culprits. Here is the list
- Choked fuel filter
- Bad fuel pump

Now I was doing a bit of research and seem there could be another culprit - Fuel Pressure Regulator. The FPR is like the endocrine gland of these bikes. It can often go bad because of fuel sitting in the tank and the manual lists these symptoms.



From what I know, one of the ways to test a FPR is to remove the vaccum hose and prime the pump - if fuel drips out then the FRP is bad. However that is probably an extreme scenario where the diaphragm can completely ruptured. I would suspect there would be a stage before this when the FPR is now giving optimal service yet not showing in this test?

Another symptom of a bad FPR is that (atleast in the Hondas) the FPR starts to dump excess fuel in the 2 and 3 number throttle bodies and that shows up in the spark plugs. Now I have the spark plugs removed by the previous owner and I do see two plugs that seem to be leaner than the others? Or is it my imagination?



Short of hooking up a vacuum pump I am not aware of another sure way to test it? I do not have a vacuum pump and someone having an understanding of these regulators may please chime in.

[BowMan]

Hey friends, just a small update today.

I have tried to use the method of elimination to arrive at the most likely possibility for my performance issues - the fuel pressure regulator. Once I was satisfied with this diagnosis I decided what parts I will need and scouted for the best possible source to buy. I first checked some suppliers who are active on FB but I got absurd quotes (8000 Rs for a FPR). So I started to look online and after looking at rates and shipping quotes finalized partzill.com. Here is what I ordered along with the rates.

16740-MBW-J32 - REGULATOR, PRESSURE
1 1 $55.07
16900-MBG-013 - FILTER, FUEL
2 2 $86.70
17508-MBW-000 - RUB, TANK MOUNTING
2 2 $8.32
17574-MBW-D20 - GASKET, BASE
3 3 $20.61
17611-ML7-000 - CUSHION, FUEL TANK
2 2 $11.66
64581-MBW-300 - CUSHION
2 2 $4.92
83551-MA6-000 - GROMMET, SIDE COVER
2 2 $4.72
84703-425-000 - RUBBER
2 2 $6.64
90074-MT4-000 - BOLT, SOCKET (4X21)
1 1 $2.16
90428-PD6-003 - WASHER (12MM)
4 4 $16.16
93903-25480 - SCREW, TAP (5X20)
3 3 $1.29
94050-06080 - NUT, FLANGE (6MM)
6 6 $2.58

I placed the order on 11th July and got delivery on 16th. That is 3 working days!

The shipping cost was 58.99 USD and customs was extra (6,500 INR) cleared by UPS. I will recommend others to try this vendor and please share your experience http://www.partzilla.com

One thing I noticed is that they put in an extra set of gasket and fuel filter!? I'm not sure why but possibly a mistake by the warehouse clerk.

[yogisays0909]

Congratulations on the F4i , a very good machine. Once upon a time I has almost finalized this bike from Atin Bhatti and has also made the payment but due to some unwanted circumstances the deal went bad.

This machine is a great machine, very well taken care off. Cosmetic flaws due to the fall rest mechanically fit n fine. Do the major service and change all oil seals and bearings and external gaskets, rear wheel hub rubber, do check the cam chain tensioner.

[yogisays0909]

Originally Posted by BowMan

The other update is more like a discussion I am having with myself and would love to bounce things of someone who knows these Japnese inline 4s.

Feel free to either private message or ask any questions. would love to share my knowledge and experience with the I4s and specially the F4i.

[VijayAnand1]

I definitely feel my post is a clutter, but I have to squeeze this weeny post in anyway. What a lovely DIY. Though, we share lots of threads when it comes to DIY with respect to the four wheeled clan, the sheer pleasure and the fire that ignites when it comes to motorcycles and dedicated DIY such as this. A thorough pleasure to skim the thread word by word.

Can't wait for more updates. I though would love to hear and working of the motorcycle, the speedo, speed runs.. oh... sheer pleasure. G l u e d!

Cheers!
VJ

[BowMan]

Originally Posted by yogisays0909

Congratulations on the F4i , a very good machine. Once upon a time I has almost finalized this bike from Atin Bhatti and has also made the payment but due to some unwanted circumstances the deal went bad.

This machine is a great machine, very well taken care off. Cosmetic flaws due to the fall rest mechanically fit n fine. Do the major service and change all oil seals and bearings and external gaskets, rear wheel hub rubber, do check the cam chain tensioner.

Originally Posted by yogisays0909

Feel free to either private message or ask any questions. would love to share my knowledge and experience with the I4s and specially the F4i.

Thanks for the offer Yogi, I will certainly reach out of need be. I will also suggest you start a thread of your own. The whole purpose of my thread is to share my journey so someone else can learn from it. I by no means claim to be an expert. I will also suggest you start your own thread to share some of your own stuff.

Originally Posted by VijayAnand1

I definitely feel my post is a clutter, but I have to squeeze this weeny post in anyway. What a lovely DIY. Though, we share lots of threads when it comes to DIY with respect to the four wheeled clan, the sheer pleasure and the fire that ignites when it comes to motorcycles and dedicated DIY such as this. A thorough pleasure to skim the thread word by word.

Can't wait for more updates. I though would love to hear and working of the motorcycle, the speedo, speed runs.. oh... sheer pleasure. G l u e d!

Cheers!
VJ

Thanks VJ, I hope you enjoy the ride.

Okay, now time for some updates.

I'm not sure if I have mentioned this earlier but ever since I have had the bike I have been taking my bike for weekend rides knowing fully well that the bike is not a 100%. Call it lethargy or the itch to ride, maintenance has taken a back seat over thrill.

However on one of these rides I was jolted back to reality. We friends were riding to a destination that has a heritage hotel which is known to serve a delicious breakfast in the Nawabi style. However about 60 Km into the ride and my bikes electronics started to go wonky and after 5 Km of needles flicking widly and lights coming on and off the bike suddenly died. That day I had to hire a pickup to take my bike back hole and while I was riding home with her in the pickup I resolved I will not go to another Sunday ride till she is 100% fit mechanically.

Once I was back hole I hooked up the voltmeter and soon discovered that the batter was dead. Not surprising since the bike was not ridden much recently. Apprehension was taking me over as my Harley battery was 10,000 Rs at the dealer. However I opened the battery box and found an Exide battery inside! I was really surprised and thought maybe the previous owner has swapped an OEM fitment to a non OEM one. I opened the shop manual and sure enough the only recommendation was a 12V 8 AH battery. I crosschecked the Exide and it was spot on the recommended Spec. I was now getting the feeling 'could this be too good to be true'? I called the guy who provides me batteries and got a quote of 1400 Rs

So that was the obvious part done.

Next started to poke around the performance issues. MY FPR vacuum line was starting to smell of fuel so I decided I will put in the new FPR and keep the old one as spare.





Next I had a strong feeling that due to the FPR one of the sparkplugs had gone off. Some water sprayed o n the exhaust headers soon confirmed that cylinder no 4 was not firing. So i removed the tank and the airbox and checked sparkplug number 4 and sure enugh, excess fuel had shorted the plug and it was not firing. Luckily the previous owner had recently changed the plugs and I had the old set with me. I tested the one with highest resistance out of the four and put that one in. And while the airbox was off I swapped the OEM airfilter which was never replaced with a HIFLO FILTRO one (part number HFA1619).



Now to the tank. In my previous posts I have shared what was the condition of the fuel pump gasket. I decided it was now time to proceed further in that direction. So I scraped as much of the sealant as I could and managed to dislodge the pump assembly from the tank. The rest of the sealant I later on burnt off with a butane gun.

And as soon as I peeked inside the tank I knew the horrors lurking inside. Seems past few years of relatively lesser and lesser usage had taken it toll and the metal had badly rusted inside despite the relatively dry Jodhpur climate.

The tank was derusted using the electrolysis method. Lots of information available on the net o how this is done.



A lot of the rust had flaked off and collected in the fuel pump assembly right where the filter opening picks up fuel. It looked like a complete horror story. The primary filter was completely gunked up and the secondary filter was so badly clogged I could not blow air through it. I am surprised the bike was running in the first place. I just could not believe the amount of loose rust inside the tank!



Once all the surfaces were completely cleaned and the filters replaced I reassembled everything with the new gasket. One part of the job done.

Next point of agenda was the error codes. Every time the bike bogged error codes were generated and from the manual I found that these were related to the MAP sensor, TP sensor and IAT Sensor. Now that is a lot of sensors to change plus the F4i TP sensor can not be swapped as each throttle Body comes calibrated to the TPS and the whole unit must be changed.

So I decided to check each of the Sensors one by one using backprobes. However none of the sensors were out of spec but there was some drop in voltage going to the sensors!? Could it be the ECU then. So I backprobed the ECU connectors that relate to these sensors and again all voltages were in spec at the ECU!? Hmmm?

I was now running out of possibilities to explore. Out of desperation I posted my issue on one of the FB groups and there were lots of replies about FPR and this and that. Stuff that I had already eliminated. However one guy all the who was a car electrician pointed out that Honda cars have poor earth and when earth points go bad such symptoms are noticed. I thought 'maybe it is the same on bikes'?

And sure enough, sanding the earth point and all the connectors and reinstalling them did the trick. Now there was absolutely no drop in voltage from the ECU to the sensors and all operation voltages/amperage were right in spec! In retrospect it seems such an obvious explanation. Every design does seem have Achilles heel

Last but not the last I also decided to replace engine Oil. The previous owner had used Motul 7100 10w40. This is a JASO MA 2 oil. I believe the older bikes should be treated with JASO MA 1 oil which are correct for their applications and have a better friction coefficient. Also the gear change felt a bit clunky on the Motul oil.

AFAIK the only JASO MA 1 oil that is available in our markets in the Mobil1 Racting 4T 10w40. It is a long time favorite and I had no problem sourcing it as it is readily available. I also saw that the Oil filter had Honda branding on it and so was perhaps never changed for the life of the bike. I decided to remove the filter and look for a matching application. My Oil depot guy thought the Honda City petrol oil filter will be fit and yes it did. The local Purolator pat number is PL 458000. 150 Rs only

Now there is some controversy on car oil filters being used for motorcycle applications. The naysayers believe the motorcycle engines generate much higher oil pressures which activates the filter bypass valve and what circulated (at least at the higher rev range) is unfiltered oil).

The yeasayers on the other hand point out that filter bypass valves are triggered not my absolute oil pressure but the difference between pressure across the filtration media. And the same motorcycle filter is used by Honda on high revving engines as well as low revving ones (600-1800cc) so absolute oil pressure is of no consequence. They argue that motorcycle only oil filters is a marketing myth.

I am firmly on the yeasayers side.

Did a few other small things too. One of the mirrors was welded at the stem and had a wonky angle. Swapped that for a new one and the rear brake pad was on its way out. Simple jobs really.



Now the Honda is back to its full glory. Killing bugs since 1948

[yogisays0909]

Originally Posted by BowMan

Thanks for the offer Yogi, I will certainly reach out of need be. I will also suggest you start a thread of your own. The whole purpose of my thread is to share my journey so someone else can learn from it. I by no means claim to be an expert. I will also suggest you start your own thread to share some of your own stuff.

Thats great, my journey with these big bikes started in 2012 and you may refer my threads in your free time.

By the way found something which I would like to share with you.
Great work there keep going on and make it work like a new machine. Go slow and step by step.

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by BowMan

And sure enough, sanding the earth point and all the connectors and reinstalling them did the trick. Now there was absolutely no drop in voltage from the ECU to the sensors and all operation voltages/amperage were right in spec! In retrospect it seems such an obvious explanation. Every design does seem have Achilles heel

If its not much trouble could you specify which earthing points you had to sand? On a CBR250R when things started going crazy we grounded the chassis(RR Unit Bolt) to the negative battery lead using a piece of wire and things got better.

And also what do you think about running a capacitor parallel to the battery?

Cheers,
A.P.

[BowMan]

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

If its not much trouble could you specify which earthing points you had to sand? On a CBR250R when things started going crazy we grounded the chassis(RR Unit Bolt) to the negative battery lead using a piece of wire and things got better.

And also what do you think about running a capacitor parallel to the battery?

Cheers,
A.P.

Sure. Surprising as it may sound, there is just one ground on the entire bike and as always the battery is ground at the negative. This is the little bugger.



I noticed this ground is connected at the ECM end to all sensors and some of my sensors were getting lower than specified input voltage. Opened it and saw some deposit and also tested with a voltmeter and connectivity was weak between and chassis and the connectors and the connectors and the bolt. Opened and found some deposits and oxidation. Cleaned all the surfaces, the chassis, the bolt, each of the connectors and everything was back to normal. One of these days I will go back to it and maybe seal the ground with some paint or nail polish.

A lot of these Honda IL 4 share similar architecture.

AFAIK capacitors are installed in parallel to compensate for the loss of cold cranking amps and extremely colder climes when temperature drops.My take on this is it will have very limited application in our country. And regarding improving battery life I always have a battery tender at home. My current one is the Bosch C3. I hook it up to all my car and bike batteries at least one every month.

Originally Posted by yogisays0909

Thats great, my journey with these big bikes started in 2012 and you may refer my threads in your free time.

By the way found something which I would like to share with you.
Great work there keep going on and make it work like a new machine. Go slow and step by step.

All I can say is she was fated for me.

[yogisays0909]

Originally Posted by BowMan

Sure. Surprising as it may sound, there is just one ground on the entire bike and as always the battery is ground at the negative. This is the little bugger.

Attachment 1801981

I noticed this ground is connected at the ECM end to all sensors and some of my sensors were getting lower than specified input voltage. Opened it and saw some deposit and also tested with a voltmeter and connectivity was weak between and chassis and the connectors and the connectors and the bolt. Opened and found some deposits and oxidation. Cleaned all the surfaces, the chassis, the bolt, each of the connectors and everything was back to normal. One of these days I will go back to it and maybe seal the ground with some paint or nail polish.

A lot of these Honda IL 4 share similar architecture.

AFAIK capacitors are installed in parallel to compensate for the loss of cold cranking amps and extremely colder climes when temperature drops.My take on this is it will have very limited application in our country. And regarding improving battery life I always have a battery tender at home. My current one is the Bosch C3. I hook it up to all my car and bike batteries at least one every month.

The common ground connector does get corroded on most of the hondas and you are correct that all hondas share similar architecture.

There are couple of 20pin ground connector within the harness which create a lot of trouble, kindly find those clean them well and lubricate to avoid rusting.

Clean the blue and white connector found under the left hand intake duct which gets rusted very soon on the F4i. keep them lubricated.

Originally Posted by BowMan

All I can say is she was fated for me.

Absolutely.

[BowMan]

Originally Posted by yogisays0909

Clean the blue and white connector found under the left hand intake duct which gets rusted very soon on the F4i. keep them lubricated.

Thanks for this. I will check this one.

Arriving today from Attin, her previous owner is a good used fuel pump for me. These things are very expensive if bought new. From Honda one is looking at ~400 USD + shipping.



From Honda (or any other manufacturer...Yamaha, Suzuki, Kawasaki) one cannot usually buy just the pump and the entire assembly has to be bought.



Another alternative is to buy just the pump off eBay. These start from as low as 15 USD to Chinese ones to something like 50 USD for Made In Germany ones.



Last but somewhere in the middle is good used pumps. The one Attin has sent to me looks like it is from a bike which has done less than 10K miles/15K Km and he got it for me at a very good price. Fuel pumps are amongst the most common failure items on these bikes. Owing to neglect rather than any design flaw. They say there is a brotherhood amongst bikers.

[yogisays0909]

Originally Posted by BowMan

Fuel pumps are amongst the most common failure items on these bikes. Owing to neglect rather than any design flaw.

Well I would not say that its 100% true that the fuel pumps on these bikes fail often, but but they do fail. in my experience the most failed fuel pump motor is the Mitsubishi brand T35 motor which are on the most of the latest SBKs. It the neglect of the owner rider running very low fuel all the time , dirty rusty tank , spoilt fuel filter and lastly the top quality fuel that we get here is just awesome(sarcasm) . I have changed this motor 2 times on my bandit in the last 2 years.