Team-BHP
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https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/)
Quote:
Originally Posted by payeng
(Post 4858497)
To be honest Harley Davidson did try its best to make new inroads, especially with the smaller, Made in India "Street 500 | 750 | Rod" models.
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And those models have done reasonably well.
But I disagree that HD has tried to make any particular inroads in India, besides sales the company has never focused on improving any of its other processes.
Despite having an entire factory in the country, the company has a horrible lead time for spares - spares for the higher end soft tails and touring bikes can take anywhere from three to six months to be delivered and dealerships have no way to give an ETA to the customer.
I have even heard of basic Street spares like a tank that has taken over a month to reach the dealership.
Harley has now crossed 10 years in India and the first generation of HD riders replacing their bikes are now weighing these issues combined with the prices at which Harleys have reached in India while looking at an upgrade.
With the launch of new Adv bikes, which are more purpose built and can be taken anywhere, the Harley davidson line looks dated. It is not appealing to the young or the guys on the wrong sides of 30, who can actually afford them. That segment now is looking at bikes like Tiger, Multistrada, Ninja 1000 and the new BMW F series (which has been launched at brilliant price). These bikes look better, perform better and have the brand value to back. HD needs to revamp the way they look at motorcycles, otherwise they will keep losing out.
Coming to the 750 series, yes they did decent, but the engine runs very hot, braking had issues and few more niggles in the way it was put together. You see loads of them on sale, and not many takers. Still yes it was a good attempt, but that is all they have to show for atleast in India, which obviously was not good enough. They really need to diversify the portfolio to appeal to the young crowd as well.
HOG was one of the main reason a lot of people used to buy harley, but now a lot of biking groups have come up and HOG also has lost out in that department. The problem is no USP to pick a harley davidson in today's age.
I have heard that the new low displacement HD bike of 338cc capacity is just a modified benelli TNT 300 engine!! I mean both brands have heavy bikes with underpowered engines and lack lustre build quality on their entry level offerings but the image and brand cache of the great rebel Harley Davidson will die if they launch this almost badge engineered pseudo Harley
A fast tracked decision indeed ! Harley Davidson has hastily taken multiple steps to prune its operations in India, including shifting of the Indian CEO to Singapore and overseeing of the Indian operations from there, along with some other countries in their list. The Corona scare has rattled all the automobile manufacturers including HD. Wish they had waited for the things to normalise and then gauge the Indian sales and the market demand by sometime in the Q2 or Q3 of 2021-22.
According to the grapevine, reduction of duties on imported bikes was under consideration by our government and the decision was due sometime soon, as I was reading, in a financial newspaper. And their greatest solicitor was the President of the United States, who has in many public speeches quoted the high import duties by India on Harley Davidsons.
Among the heavier bikes being imported, Harley Davidsons are the best selling in quite a few categories.
Only time will tell whether HD's decision to prune operations in India was apt or not ?
Those Street 500/750 brake issues that led to the huge HD owners backlash in the country and the careless attitude of HD against owners reporting the issues honestly did more damage for HD in the long run here. It managed to do two things at once i.e.,
Infuriate Street owners to ditch the brand forever and also made potential entry level HD owners to strike the brand off their list looking at manufacturer apathy.
Harley Davidson has had it coming for quite some time now.
There is a very interesting video by FortNine, one of the sauciest and unapologetic Youtube Channels, on this subject. Its a great watch if you are not a HD fan-boy :D
https://youtu.be/EOwxxsPaogY
In India, while Harley ticked off sales initially because of its sheer brand value and the focus on fat-cats rediscovering the love of biking/staving off mid-life crisis, the advent of Triumph, Indian and the multitude of ADV machines changed the game.
At the lower end of the spectrum, The 390s and the RE 650s offer so much more value and function over the cheaper HD models.
Then there is the HOGS aspect of it. Great marketing! but let down by its consumers buying too much into the hype and a product not keeping pace with the times.
HD has brought this onto themselves. I am very happy that they are shutting shop and going away
Back in 2012, I did not earn a lot. Even buying a Pulsar 180 was a stretch for me. But I loved motorcycles and all things on 2 wheels. Nine Bridges Harley Davidson had just opened up in Ahmedabad and my office was a stone's throw away from their showroom.
Like most of us Average Joe's, I dreamt of things I couldn't afford. I was completely smitten by the Harley Davidson Forty Eight. I used to gaze at it from the showroom glass panes occasionally when I passed by the showroom. Each time I walked by, I would spend 5 to 10 minutes standing there and admiring the motorcycle from all possible angles. I never liked any other HD motorcycle- just the Forty Eight
One day, seeing that the showroom was kind of empty, I went in and asked for the details of the Forty Eight as well as a test ride. The saleslady there - speaking in highly accented English looked me over in my unbranded tshirt, jeans and Bata sport shoes and decided I did not look as wealthy as their average customer and so shouldn't waste her time on me. This despite the showroom being practically empty- but the saleslady had more important things to do like chatting away with her colleagues. She made some excuse about their test ride motorcycle being in the service station and turned me away. Not a problem - I said and gave them my mobile number to call me when the motorcycle was available for a test ride.
No calls. 3 weeks later I went by again and got a similar excuse of the motorcycle not being available, while I routinely saw other customers getting test rides of HD motorcycles. As I mentioned earlier, my office was on the same street as the showroom. Each time I saw someone get a test ride, I felt a little bit more hurt.
If the dealership did not want to give me a test ride, they could have refused it or made it clear to me by stating it outright, but to keep me running from pillar to post and making me carry that tiny sliver of hope that I would be given a testride of a motorcycle (which I probably would never be able to afford) was excruciating. I followed up 2 more times but never ever got the test ride. I felt insulted.
If that wasn't enough, I thought atleast HD the company would take notice of their dealerships attitude towards potential customers or prospects who might buy a motorcycle in the near future. I went to their HD India website, got the complaints email address and shot off a long email describing my experience with the dealership and ended the email with my contact details.
It's been 8 years and email hasnt been responded to despite me sending a couple of "gentle reminders" in the two months after I sent the initial email. No offer of a test ride or even the courtesy of a reply, apology or an acknowledgement. I now know the issue wasn't with the dealership but the entire top down approach of thr HD management.
Today I can buy a Harley Davidson quite easily even without taking a loan but I will never give them my business because of their stuck up attitude and their behaviour towards me in 2011. And guess what- the tide has turned. Today, they need every sale they can get. How the mighty have fallen- in India as well as globally.
Compare that to Indian Motorcycles - which was besides the Fiat Service Station. I strolled in and told the showroom manager that I am not interested in buying but just wanted to gaze at the Scout while my Punto was getting serviced next door. The showroom owner/ showroom manager - knowing he had no prospect of a sale, still offered a test ride and when I declined it, fired up the motorcycle on my request and treated me to a cup of hot coffee and a nice chat. If the Big Motorcycle bug bites me again- and I know it will, I know where to go and what to buy. A hot cup of coffee and a warm chat has given Indian Motorcycles a confirmed sale.
Delighted and absolutely elated Harley Davidson is going out of business in India. Couldn't be happier
The brand is struggling in India for sure.
First, Harley-Davidson USA is in big trouble. Declining sales, an irrelevant product line and younger bikers who are simply not interested in the Harley-kind of motorcycles. At such a time when the parent company is in trouble, the focus on smaller markets like India dissipates (see how VW withdrew from India after the emissions scandal).
I consider myself an outsider to the motorcycle industry & can still see Harley India going out of tune. Hardly any new threads, press releases or news for the company. On the other hand, I do see growing interest in other Japanese & European motorcycling brands. These products also seem more modern & better engineered than Harley-Davidsons.
The brutal market today doesn't tolerate complacency.
It won't be a surprise if the brand is in trouble in India. They aren't doing anything at all to market the bikes. I understand that the brand demands a niche premium clientele like some exclusive golf clubs which never advertise and are all about exclusivity. However - in a market like ours, attempting something like that & presuming the rich will come buy products just for owning the brand is not exactly the best approach. It can't give a stable long run in our auto-sector.
The only PR/Marketing & Media mention we see about Harley-Davidson here is directly from the POTUS when he uses this as a point for unfair trade deals with India. :D
Little OT reply , The bigger issue here is with so many international brands wrapping up or failing to gain momentum in indian market, we as consumers are at big loss to get better and technologically advanced products.
We have lost out on Fiat, ford, GM and now if we loose harley, i think it affects our country's image and as well as loss to us in terms of variety, quality and technology.
just my 2 cents.
Quote:
Originally Posted by akshatmangal
(Post 4859227)
Little OT reply , The bigger issue here is with so many international brands wrapping up or failing to gain momentum in indian market, we as consumers are at big loss to get better and technologically advanced products.
We have lost out on Fiat, ford, GM and now if we loose harley, i think it affects our country's image and as well as loss to us in terms of variety, quality and technology.
just my 2 cents.
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This is true to a large extent. India has a reputation of being a rather immature low cost market with poor margins and buyers with herd mentality. Most international brands are struggling or have packed up for a variety of reasons. Even in the CV space, Mercedes was horrified at the standards here and had to come up with BharatBenz brand. There was no way they would put the three pointed star on the product that was sellable here.
Coming back to Harley, it’s problems here are intrinsically linked to its struggles in its home market. While the brand does command massive street cred, we are simply irrelevant in their overall picture. Even if they sell twice or thrice or 5 times more here, it will amount to nothing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahul4321
(Post 4859102)
HD has brought this onto themselves. I am very happy that they are shutting shop and going away
One day, seeing that the showroom was kind of empty, I went in and asked for the details of the Forty Eight as well as a test ride. The saleslady there - speaking in highly accented English looked me over in my unbranded tshirt, jeans and Bata sport shoes and decided I did not look as wealthy as their average customer and so shouldn't waste her time on me. This despite the showroom being practically empty- but the saleslady had more important things to do like chatting away with her colleagues. She made some excuse about their test ride motorcycle being in the service station and turned me away. Not a problem - I said and gave them my mobile number to call me when the motorcycle was available for a test ride.
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Totally get what you have gone through Rahul. Big brands need to understand that an immediate buyer is not your only customer. Your customer is who is loyal to your brand even if he has not bought it. Your admiring each HD and still not buying it just because of their attitude towards customers is proof that the big brands take the 'not so smartly dressed' customers for granted. This is not limited to these showrooms, is spread across malls that host the so called big brands. I recently saw a case in Hyd where a big eatery (Conchu) was asking customers who do not drive in in great cars to leave as they were not serving.
Last year , on much prodding from the missus and a couple of cousins I decided to finally consider go buying a large bike . I wanted something under 18 lakh. After much gps and asking watchmen, I found Harley Davidson showroom in a corner of Andheri E in a petrol pump. 2 models on display , 1 mechanic available and all salesperson were in a meeting. The lot was full of dusty harleys parked for repairs . No one to attend to a customer.
After waiting for 15 minutes watching phones ringing unanswered, I left.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nithesh_M
(Post 4858935)
Those Street 500/750 brake issues that led to the huge HD owners backlash in the country and the careless attitude of HD against owners reporting the issues honestly did more damage for HD in the long run here. It managed to do two things at once i.e.,
Infuriate Street owners to ditch the brand forever and also made potential entry level HD owners to strike the brand off their list looking at manufacturer apathy.
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From my experience with owners, it was never the brakes. It was rather our mentality of using the rear brakes only that caused these complaints.
I still see self proclaimed "Experienced" riders give me strange looks when I say I only used the front brakes, without ABS.
I'm not a big fan of Harley because they are just noise makers to me. An 1800CC milwaukee engine that can't produce more than 80bhp is a disgrace to engineering.
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