Team-BHP - Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

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Originally Posted by Sheel (Post 3269921)

Well, you have answered my question already :)

What I meant was something different. I meant that Indian SUVs are affordable with reasonable life while Japanese SUVs are known to last for the life of the owner, if not more.

But, the question is, are the Fortuner or the Pajero Sport worth INR 12.00 lac more than, say a Storme 4wd in your opinion?

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Originally Posted by 1100D (Post 3269939)

I know someone who bought a Storme, just to avoid buying the Scorp and its in the workshop now for two full weeks, although I am not sure about the actual problem.

This certainly seems to be a one off case. Also, the MHawk Scorpio doesn't appeal to me for its increasing niggles which include the clutch m/c, failing power windows and others amply discussed in the Scorpio issues thread.

Had the CRDe version been available, I would have gone for a 4WD version with my eyes closed.

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Originally Posted by Sheel (Post 3270096)

I would be so much ease with a Mahindra & my brother is buying a VLX 2WD this dhanteras

With the kind of rapport I ve managed to build with M&M, I know that an M&M product will keep me in mental peace, but, the Storme is a definite improvement over the Scorpio in all aspects and there have been no reports of any pre mature failures in it so far.

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Originally Posted by n.devdath (Post 3270655)

There can't be a straight-forward or a one-line answer here.

Why does one buy a Range Rover when Discovery 4 would do almost the same thing? Or a V12 in their Cayenne?

BTW it is the small niggles which irritate me.

I have three Cars in which I travel (cousin/friend) the Figo, the SFX (its gone to Delhi, but would be back soon) and the Yeti. In none of the Cars, has there been any issue & save for the Figo (because of the other Cars) both do over 30,000kms a year. The SFX had a brake-pad change at 60,000kms and no issues otherwise. Same with Yeti, it has just completed a year & it is knocking on 35,000kms.

I am unsure if a Storme or a Scorpio/XUV can replicate it. I have seen Safari doing over 2L without much issue and have seen the 2.6 CRde as well without many issues. But they weren't trouble free Cars.

And then, it frankly varies from person to person. As a BHPian and an enthusiast, me and you would care for our vehicles better and maybe it will remain niggle free for many more kilometers/days than a normal person's Car.

It depends on your perspective. Around 10lakhs (more) to spend on a tried, tested product? If I am not on a budget, then yes.

The other big problem is, few garage/service centers of Tata/Mahindra are equipped with mechanic & equipment to do a major job on 'em. Toyota has an advantage here & a big one at that. Nothing much goes wrong with Mitsubishi. Two SFX's I know are doing close to 2L & apart from routine maintenance its going strong. The FE is poor though.

My answer might appear vague, as I haven't named either Fortuner/Pajero Sport or Storme/VLX 4X4 as my choice, but have tried to explain my rationale, it is all down to $$$

At the end, you get what you pay for :)

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The throttle response of the MHawk, its low down torque is addictive.

I am not aware of much issues with the MHawk & don't think my few friends who have owned, complained of any. As I mentioned, my cousin is going for a VLX 2WD.

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the Storme is a definite improvement over the Scorpio in all aspects and there have been no reports of any pre mature failures in it so far.

It for sure is. I didn't like the older Safari much (not talking about looks) but this one has marched ahead of the Scorpio, though I personally prefer MHawk's engine & its smoothness. Its gearing is shorter though.

BTW, from what I know, both the MHawk and the Dicor had lot of common & perhaps were designed from grounds up by AVL, Austria.

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Originally Posted by Sheel (Post 3270811)

At the end, you get what you pay for :)

Well, I kind of agree but also feel that with the Fortuner and the Pajero Sport, you really don't get what you pay for. You get a lot lesser.

When it comes to the Storme or the XUV/Scorpio, I feel that you get more than what you pay for but with its caveats.

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Originally Posted by Sheel (Post 3270811)

BTW, from what I know, both the MHawk and the Dicor had lot of common & perhaps were designed from grounds up by AVL, Austria.

Both were "tuned" by AVL which is why they share so many specifications. Same displacement, same power and torque outputs, almost the same power and torque curves.

At times I wonder if AVL just gave both of them the same engine with a different rail in each....!!!!

One uses Bosch while the other uses Delphi.:thumbs up

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Originally Posted by inwester (Post 3271987)

Innova - 2003 to present
Fortuner - 2005 to present
Rexton - 2006 to present
Pajero - 2006 to present

Yes, however, they have been getting updates regularly in terms of mechanical, cosmetic and safety features.
In fact, not many manufacturers believe in changing the entire platform very soon, which is my opinion is not a bad thing.

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Originally Posted by inwester (Post 3271987)

Makes me think XUV 500 might be the one to buy, at least it was launched only couple of years back, priced significantly cheaper than any of the above SUVs, tons of features, plus its a domestic car and service centers would be always around.

If it is about VFM, nothing beats the XUV in its segment. Period. However, it has an unsettled ride on bad roads, iffy plastics and a few jazzy features that may not work all the time.

The presence of service centres, while a definite plus, is not a mandate IF the initial quality of the vehicle is good.

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Originally Posted by inwester (Post 3271987)

My father thinks Innova is the way to go. This exactly is the reason why Toyota still sells a 10 year old product, with hardly any updates, for 16 lakhs rupees (higher variants). Unless customers walk away from these old products and demand more they will keep selling it. I would've bought a Hyundai Sante Fe if they had the new 2013 model available.

He is not wrong.:thumbs up

While the Innova is NOT a fun to drive vehicle in stock form, it is as reliable as a rock, ranks second in middle row comfort behind the Storme (some may say that it is No: 1 ahead of the Storme too), and has fantastic quality and re sale value.

It is not without reason that Toyota sells approximately 8k of them every month.

However, IF you need an AWD or a 4WD, then you should look at other vehicles like the Fortuner, the Pajero Sport et al.

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Originally Posted by inwester (Post 3271987)

Should I wait in anticipation of any new launches, can wait up to 6 months? Or should I say screw it and go for another sedan? The main reason we want a new car is that my father hates Laura's ride quality.

The next 6 months will not see any major launches in the body on frame SUV segment except the new Ford Endeavor.

If a sedan suits your requirements, which I feel it does going by your past usage of the Optra, go for another spacious sedan like the new Octavia (It rides better than the Laura and is way more spacious), the Corolla, or the Innova.

Hope this helps.:thumbs up

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Originally Posted by n.devdath (Post 3271923)

Well, I kind of agree but also feel that with the Fortuner and the Pajero Sport, you really don't get what you pay for. You get a lot lesser.
When it comes to the Storme or the XUV/Scorpio, I feel that you get more than what you pay for but with its caveats.

Completely agree here with you. Tata and M&M SUVs are extremely VFM but it is the so called "caveats" which are the bone of contention here - some find them acceptable and some don't. Those who don't and can stretch their budget go for the Fortuners and Pajeros. I, for one, have been a happy owner of a Dicor 2.2 4x4 for around 4 years now and find my car an EXTREMELY VFM proposition - where would you get an old-school 4x4 SUV which provides sofa-quality ride comfort with almost 1 BHK of space at 11.xx on-road!!! Even if I have the budget today, I would think twice before plonking that ~30L on a new Fortuner or a Pajero - would probably go for a well maintained pre-worshiped one. Just my opinion...

A Japanese SUV will not last the life of an owner.
If serious off roading is done with it it will last about 10 years. After that major failures will occur which can be repaired but it will become unreliable off road. It cannot be trusted on off road missions.

If used for shopping trips to the mall and office to home runs it can last 20 years but will anyone continue to drive it. An SUV owner will definetely get tired of it in 10 years max.

Now lets come to this Pajero 2-3 years old.

Off road capabilities excellent. Depends on what one does with it. With a diesel engine it cannot climb dunes but on harder ground yes it will do well.

Body roll in this 1997 to 2003 model Pajero is excessive.

The engine needs careful maintainance.

Major failures for those who off road frequently in it are :

Tie rod replacement.
Water pump replacement
busted radiators ( from the bottom with your mistake )
soft shockers gice away
link rod bushes
stablizer bar bushes
spare wheel rattles and falling off
torsion bar adjustments
engine mounting brackets cracking
front exaust chamber damages
failure of diff locks to engage
bumps on the rear diffrential and diffrential oil leaks
rear axle rod noisy - replacement

These are what I know about. There could be others too.

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Originally Posted by ku69rd (Post 3272862)

Will the Getaway fit into your scheme of things is something that you would have to ponder about.

Thank you for the suggestion but the Getaway is too long a vehicle with a bad rear bench which doesn't suit my requirements at all. It is pretty uncomfortable as well.

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Originally Posted by desertfox (Post 3272994)

Scorpio Getaway is still BSIII how will one get it registered in a metro city ?

There are workarounds to this but the vehicle doesn't suit me.

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Originally Posted by cool_dube (Post 3272552)

Even if I have the budget today, I would think twice before plonking that ~30L on a new Fortuner or a Pajero - would probably go for a well maintained pre-worshiped one. Just my opinion...

Precisely my point.

Are they worth it? I find it hard to digest their prices when new.

@ n.devnath

I think you should buy either storme or pajero sport for following reasons:

Storme:
If you are on tight budget and extra down payment/EMI for pajero sport is going to be a burden for you. Also maintenance of storme is going to be very cheap because of 15k service interval and cheaper parts.
Storme looks like a reliable vehicle considering that company offers 4yr 150000 km warranty ( including Extended)
Car is a real value for money as you get proper old school 4x4 for 16.xx lacs and I couldn't find any reason for complaint after three different TDs over 100 kms except for few squeaks and rattles in cabin.

Pajero Sport:
If you intend to keep the car for long time (5yr+) and don't mind higher initial and running costs.
Car has all the essential features and built, ergonomics, fit and finish is really good.
Pajero doesn't offer much additional value worth 12 lacs over storme as far as features and functionality is concerned but does everything with quality and style. If you love quality and afford it, you will not regret for sure.

In my case, I had budget to go for SFX/XTrail in 2010 but bought safari to save money and regretted my decision later on only to end up selling my car within 3 yrs. So this time I did not want to make same mistake and so bought Pajero Sport recently instead of Storme since my budget was flexible.
Also I will suggest you to prefer Storme over fortuner as I don't see the point in using a car with compromised ride quality after spending 28 big ones. Rest of the fortuner is good.