Team-BHP - Does it make sense to buy a 15 year old Toyota Lucida / Estima?

There are a couple of ads for Toyota Lucida/Estima, and the vans are listed at upwards of 5L. Both vehicles are 1997/8 registered, so at least 15 years old. Does it make sense to buy them at amounts which could get a decent loaded hatch today?

Both are automatic diesels.

The plus points are the vans are spacious, loaded and can carry a big family of 6-7 people with kids and luggage.

The minus point of course is the age of the vehicles.

The thread topic is misleading.
Does it make sense to buy a used Toyota? Of course YES!!!!!!

But coming to your point of used imported...
well, seeing the ads in TeamBHP for Crowns, Cressidas, Mark IIs etc all with the Qualis 2.4l diesel engine and 4spd A/T for under 5lacs is tempting to me , but my dad keeps reminding about the spares.
You have to remember that these are imported and are old, hence procuring spares will be troublesome.

Maybe you will get the parts in Delhi or Mumbai as they have more import population, also you being in Thane means you can go to Mumbai for some.

But they will never be as trouble free as a modern hatch. But if you in case land a decent example and have access to spares, then you got yourself something unique to ride around than the ubiquitous hatches.

Quote:

Originally Posted by honeybee (Post 3171785)

As your only ride, day in and day out, NO.
As a second or third car which can be left at the Toyota ASC or your garage for extended periods if required and something to be used to ferry kids, go to weddings with your folks etc, YES.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DicKy (Post 3171793)

But they will never be as trouble free as a modern hatch. But if you in case land a decent example and have access to spares, then you got yourself something unique to ride around than the ubiquitous hatches.

There are only a couple of vehicles, at a stretch there would be a couple or so more across the country, so it's more of a take it or leave it situation. There are no other modern vehicles within an affordable range which will provide as many features / space as these ones. The run-of-the-mill MUVs such as the Innovas or Scorpios or Sumos will never match these vans (not to say these are bad vehicles, but the vans indeed are unique in this respect).

Spares would be a problem, yes. But then if these are unique vehicles they will have some unique needs. What's important is the mechanicals of the engine, suspension etc could probably be sourced locally.

Quote:

Originally Posted by n.devdath (Post 3171861)

If it's not a daily ride (in terms of reliability), then it's no point. Unless it's a 100% reliable vehicle, there would be no point buying a luxurious showpiece. One-time or periodic maintenance apart, the vehicle should be ready to run any time.

Compared to the age and the possibility of lack of spares, the vehicles do seem to command a premium. But then without any good competition it's a seller's market.

Toyotas are known to be reliable workhorses and this one's no different. Toyota Tarago ( as it is known in australia) was owned by my uncle from 1992-2003 when he finally sold it in December 2003. He exclaimed it to be so reliable that it could take heavy bouldering without even showing any sweat! By your requirements, I guess it's a vehicle for the family. So, if you opt for it, you get:-

1. (Namely) A Diesel
2. An automatic (4-speed)
3. A van that could seat family in full comfort

And all this at a price of 5 lakhs! Remember, 5 lakhs don't even fetch you a fully-loaded brio! Remember, creature comforts could be added at a later stage. But, since it's 1997-98 registered, try to negotiate for a lower price, put your bargaining skills to test here. Since it wasn't officially available for sale here, you'd have to import parts from other countries (most probably Japan). Also, if you opt for it, do check all the documents of the vehicle since it is likely to be a grey import. Check the interiors and functioning of the car, since the onus of owning a niggle-free car starts from you. If you like it, then seal the deal. The present generation retails for approximately 17 lakhs in UAE. So, keep in mind the above points and do share your decision with us.

Keep revvin'
S@ndy

Well, the prices aren't exactly in the 5L bracket, they are more in the 6-7 L bracket - which is why they are equal to a fully loaded hatch. If at all any of these vehicles has to be bought, does it make a difference if they were originally imported? Would there be any additional paperwork required?

The reason I am contemplating this is while it's always easy to hire a tempo traveler or a Winger for the occasional full family trips, they wouldn't offer the same comfort as a personal vehicle. The vehicle would have to remain in service for another four years at least, and I don't want to be looking at any major costs during the ownership experience. Since the price is already steep, it wouldn't make sense if the engine or the tranny were to be replaced in a year or two.

A used Innova might make better economic sense and might prove more reliable, however I am a little skeptical about the space and other features.

You can never go wrong with a 2nd hand Toyota - thats the general perception - and also a true one. But in this case, things may go wrong because of the below reasons :

It is an imported vehicle. Most of the luxury cars/vans (especially Japanese) imported in the 90's were "jhol" ones. You will need to be very sure that this is a legal import and all documents are in place.
Being a 15-year old vehicle, this definitely would have changed a lot of hands. So you never know how the previous owners have maintained the car. So if there are spares / parts that need replacement - be ready to shell out a huge amount (and even bigger if you go to Toyota ASC).
15 years does take a great toll on the car - be it a Japanese, American or an European car. The dashboard would have lost its color, the body paint would have faded, the tyres worn out. Also Toyota Previa/Estima/Lucida were powered by a 2.0/2.4 litre turbocharged diesel engine, but the engine would have lost all its punch.

If you do manage to get a pre-worshipped Previa/Estima/Lucida - you would be very lucky. Its one of the best luxury vans that money can buy. You get good space, flexible seating, good build quality etc.

Its all a gamble - think very hard before you take any decision. Heres a link to one which is on sale on our Classified : http://classifieds.team-bhp.com/buy-...a/Estima.html/

Your other imported options for a comfortable and luxurious minivans are :

Mercedes MB100/140D
Mercedes Viano / V Class (I believe it was sold in India for a brief period)
Toyota Hiace early 2000s (http://classifieds.team-bhp.com/buy-...ta/Hiace.html/). A lot of Hiace's were used as Consulate / Diplomats and you could get a well maintained one for a good deal.
Mitsubishi Delica
Nissan Serena

In the end, you have answered your own question :)

Quote:

A used Innova might make better economic sense and might prove more reliable,

Hi Honeybee,

Let met put it this way. Its 15-16 year old car, no matter how reliable the engine is, there are other things to the car apart from the engine, that will show their age (eg AC, suspension, body-work etc).

If any of the other parts conk off, it will be a huge cost to procure the parts and get the issue sorted.

I know which ad / dealer you're talking about. I myself was tempted to go and see the Lexus that the dealer has. But, resisted from doing so because these are definitely "jhol" imports.

There is an area known as "Gazdar Bandh" a few kms away from my house which is full of garages repairing such imported vehicles. If you want, you can visit these one day to find out how the maintenance of the Lucidas / Estimas / Crowns etc turns out to be. I've seen most of these garages repairing the old gen imports of Toyota, Mitsubishi, Mercs, BMW, Audi.

-Yogesh.

Stay away from it mate- Thats my advice. The odds againsed you-
1) 15 years old
2) Imported
3) Spares
4) Automatic

The only thing I see for you in this case is the brand. But after so long....I would not take a chance.
Once you start facing issues where will you get the spares from?
If you have that figured out and everything else fits in place then bargain. Considering depreciation what should be the approximate price now?

So besides the maintenance cost and current reliability concerns sited by many above, one also has to consider the value of the vehicle. The prices mentioned are higher than the 3-5L one pays for a E250 Diesel Mercedes that was legally sold in India and would actually be easier to find spares for.

The Lucida / Estima vehicle should in my view cost you no more than 4L today - to buy i.e.

6L for a 98 model Lucida is definitely high. 3 - 4L is the price range.

The diesel engines would have clocked a minimum 2L kms in the hands of atleast 4 owners. Service history will be virtually non existent. So no way to check out the parts (suspension, pumps, clutch, brakes, etc) that have been replaced. If its a single owner vehicle, atleast there is a chance to take a gamble.

(Personal opinion): Lucida's used to be the niche MPV's about 10 yrs back. Now they have lost the charm and the halo effect. The looks are also outdated by today's standards.

Also keep in mind that you will find it virtually impossible to sell it off in case you want to. I agree that Toyota's seldom fail so it's better to shell out a couple of lacks extra and go for a used Innova with service history.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACM (Post 3172935)

Yes, the price comparison is definitely true. It does seem a bit too much to be paying such a high price for a vehicle so old.

As for the interiors and the features, though it may be outdated, the functionality should still be useful. However maintaining it would also be a pain.

In my opinion there is no point buying such an old vehicle, however well its maintained. Aging process takes toll of all the rubber parts and seals of the whole car especially some of the seals in the engine.
If any part fails then part availability and service cost and frequent maintenance will have to be factored in. Finally an old car is a old car so don't expect too much out of it .

I would rather buy a brand new Tata/Mahindra than a 15 year old Toyota/Honda. And that too imoprted. Parts will be hard to source and when you do, you would pay through your nose. You will find the steering/dash-board of a 15 year old car very bland and ugly in 2013/14, however clean it is kept.

And then, a car is collection of a million parts. As a car ages, individual parts age, too. After 10 years, parts generally start failing one by one. You will end up changing almost every part one by one, month after month. You WILL cringe. Because the car may cost you yesterday's money but the parts will cost you today's money. Better buy a cheap and cheerful brand new warranty-covered Tata/ Mahindra, use it like it is your misssion to destroy it, safe in the knowledge that cheap spares are available at the nearest dealership. And that is exactly what i am going to do. It is called Xenon. :)