[abhayshanu]

Long post ahead. Scroll down the the TLDR part.

I don't know how or where to start, so I'll start from a few ago.
In March 2012 I bought my first car, the Octavia vRS, which was our daily driver for nearly 2 years. From the time I bought, till around Jan 2012 I had more if highway driving, around 60 kms on a work day. In Jan 2014 my daily travels shifted from 60 kms of highway driving to 20 kms of city driving. By the time it was properly pouring in Bombay, the roads had already disappeared, so I was on the hunt for a cheap car which could handle the bad roads and not scrape everywhere. Considered many small cars, but always wanted to buy a Jeep( my dad owned a willys jeep for around 30 years and I had a few good memories in it) and Offroad in it. A few friends had Gypsy and use to Offroad with them.
So after a long tedious search in Aug 2014 I bought a Maruti Gypsy. From the day I bought the gypsy to around December 2015, it was my daily driver. But by Nov 2015 it had gone to my friends garage for SPoA mods. And in the same period I hadn't driven my vRS for more than 1000 kms, most were going to Amby Valley to participate in the Drags. The vRS was giving various issues which would need to be sorted if I needed to drive it daily so I decided to go get back a car which I hadn't driven in nearly 5 years. My family had a qualis and it was parked at a friend's place for maybe 3 years. It was in preety bad shape. So I got it back to my friends garage, gave him a week to bring it upto usable condition, he did so in a day. We just serviced it, cleaned it, changed a few belts, refilled AC Gas and it was working pretty much properly. I then added some extra lights and because it was running so good we decided to take it on a Manali Road trip at the end of the year.
That trip really showed how much I loved cross country travelling. The only issue I had with the trip was, we had gone upto a snowy part, parked the car on the side of the road, enjoyed the snow and came back to leave. But the car gotten stuck in a little snow and when I went to leave, it just slipped into the small gutter on the side of the road. It took nearly 3-4 hours for us recover the vehicle, which would have been a 1 min job for a car with 4x4, like my gypsy.
The whole of 2016 the qualis was my daily driver. It use to leak, not start up in the cold and in general was showing its age. After the rains I bought a scooter for my daily travels and started to looking for a replacement for my qualis. Requirements were very simple.
Reliable
6 seater
4x4
With these requirements I was l has the option of a Fortuner or a Pajero/Pajero Sport. Checked out a few and was negotiating with a couple. A friend who worked at Honda told me about a Mobilio which would check 2 of my boxes and be brand new with a really good price. I went and checked it out with my family and everyone was very happy with it. So we decided to buy a third car for the family by trading in the qualis ( they weren't happy with my keeping the other 2).
From Jan 2017 to December 2018 I drove the car nearly daily and various outstation trips, clocking around 30k kms. We then decided we wanted to go and see snowfall (we had all seen snow, but never snowfall). So we decided of a trip to Manali again in Jan end. This time too I didn't have a 4x4, but I was going to be as a could be.
I made a recovery tool kit, inclusive of my tow belt rated for 4T and bought new D Shackles (my older 3T didn't fit the mobilio recovery points)
We went and came back with a similar stuck story. We got stuck in the same type of situation, but this time with the help of a local taxi and my tow belt we were out in half an hour.
Came back and decided that I definitely need a 4x4 SUV, no matter what. From Feb 2018 Uptil Jan 2019, I had clocked another 15k kms and finally decided to first sell the Mobilio AND the gypsy, get the money from those and then buy a 4x4 SUV. The family wouldn't agree to first buy a forth car then try to sell Mobilio and Gypsy.


TLDR
So now coming to present day, on 12th August 2020, I have sold my Mobilio and Gypsy. Now I'll be searching for a Fortuner 2009 - 2015 4x4 or a Pajero SFX 2008 - 2012 or a Pajero Sport 2012 - 2016. But as on 15th Aug 2020, the new thar has really confused me.

My current requirement are as follows
4x4 which can good some decent offroading
Should seat atleast 4, 6 is better
Realiable
Diesel
Automatic would be a welcome option

Now I know the positives and negatives of all the 5 vehicles mentioned above and I know the priced also seem really different and this is why I'm having trouble deciding.
Pajero SFX can be bought for as low as 3L, maybe spend another 3L for full restoration and a few mods. It has those 90s charm, those weird button placement. Old-school looks. A Cabin Heater!!
But it's dated, engine performance isn't at par with the others on the list. Parts availablity and cost

Toyota Fortuner can be bought for as low as 7L, spend another maybe 2-3L for restoration and mods for a super reliable 4x4 suv. Easily available parts and cheaper to buy than the SFX. Can buy a Lockright Locker for this and have a good Offroad vehicle.

Pajero Sport will be much newer compared to the fortuner but at a similar price with a much newer equipment list and interior and ofcourse similar realibilty. But I really dislike the looks of this car and just like the SFX, part availablity and cost is a negative too.

Fortuner Facelift can be bought for around 10-12L, might need to put in some money if there's any restoration needed. I didn't like the look of this one when it was launched, but since then it has grown on me. The equipment list is comparable to the Sport, but with easier part sourcing and cheaper too. This again can be fitted with a Lockright Locker and would be a even better offroader than the older fortuner.

Finally the new Thar. It's around 16L on road for the variant I want. It looks pretty good. Brand new(family loves this part). MLD and BLD. Good offroader, maybe even better than the others. New car feel. A surprising refined engine and smooth gearbox . But is much smaller than the other proper SUVs, will need to take a loan and if I do, will have to keep for keep for around 5 years atleast.

Some more pointers
My daily drive is still my scooter for 8 months.
When I travel with family in the city, it will be 50% of superb and 50% this car, preferring the superb as its an auto. When out station traveling it would be 100% the 4x4 SUV. When the dreaded 4 months of rains arrive, this will also be my primary daily drive in the city too and weekend offroading too.

[sridhar-v]

For serious off-roading the Thar is best.
The larger SUVs you are looking at will do long distance highway cruising. You can also do off-roading in trails that have the width for the fortuner or PAjero Sport.
My Grand Vitara barely fits in some of the trails we do. I guess the old Pajero will also fit in such trails.

Either way be prepared to get a lot on dings and scratches on your body.

[GTO]

My current requirement are as follows
4x4 which can good some decent offroading
Should seat atleast 4, 6 is better
Realiable
Diesel
Automatic would be a welcome option

The Thar isn't a 4-seater. Think of it as a 2 + 2, similar to how many MPVs are 5 + 2. Access to & comfort on the rear seat of the Thar is comparable to the 3rd-row of many MPVs.

If you are fine with a 2 + 2 vehicle with 2-doors, by all means go for the Thar. You've owned a Gypsy before & the Thar is a mega step ahead of it. But usability will be very limited.

When I travel with family in the city, it will be 50% of superb and 50% this car, preferring the superb as its an auto. When out station traveling it would be 100% the 4x4 SUV

With your family, it will have to be the Superb on the highway as well. The Thar is best <120 kmph and bumpy too. Plus, it has less boot space with 4 onboard.

On the other hand, if you need something more practical + for highway trips, it has to be the Fortuner Facelift from your shortlisted cars.

[cool_dube]

Originally Posted by abhayshanu

Finally the new Thar

Don't even consider it, given the intended usage as outlined by you! Think of it as no more than a contemporary Gypsy. You need a full-blown 7-seater SUV, for those "snow" trips

Since you have not explicitly mentioned your budget, I'll take the best possible shot at this - your best bet is a pre-owned Fortuner, sub-par ride quality notwithstanding. You will love the ride of a Pajero Sport - in addition to sweet deals you can get - but I would not recommend it for the horrible after-sales support. More recommendations can follow once you share you budget.

[raunak2X90]

Look for other 4x4 suvs like the safari or the xuv500. Parts will be cheap and readily available. They are very comfortable for your usage as a long distance tourer with decent off road capability. Plus creature comforts are better than the old gen pajero. If you find an awd duster or a vmax, they can also be a fun alternative though strictly 5 seater.

[abnormalspirit]

Hi shanu your basic requirement is mentioned at least 4 to 6 people should seat for trip so that is not possible, better go for fortuner it’s a allrounder for highway and off-road trails, moreover toyota relatability.

[abhayshanu]

Originally Posted by sridhar-v

For serious off-roading the Thar is best.
The larger SUVs you are looking at will do long distance highway cruising. You can also do off-roading in trails that have the width for the fortuner or PAjero Sport.
My Grand Vitara barely fits in some of the trails we do. I guess the old Pajero will also fit in such trails.

Either way be prepared to get a lot on dings and scratches on your body.

From the list maybe the new thar might be the best offroader, but from what I've seen in the older one, it's not much better than the others. I like the thar only because of the Jeep thing. It's got a nostalgic feel mixed with a new car feel. Mind says to remove it from the list and keep only the big SUVs and choose from those.

Originally Posted by GTO

The Thar isn't a 4-seater. Think of it as a 2 + 2, similar to how many MPVs are 5 + 2. Access to & comfort on the rear seat of the Thar is comparable to the 3rd-row of many MPVs.

If you are fine with a 2 + 2 vehicle with 2-doors, by all means go for the Thar. You've owned a Gypsy before & the Thar is a mega step ahead of it. But usability will be very limited.

A 4 seater with 2 doors is fine for most of the time. Because even when me, my wife and my 2 year old son will travel, we won't need alot of space.

Originally Posted by GTO

With your family, it will have to be the Superb on the highway as well. The Thar is best <120 kmph and bumpy too. Plus, it has less boot space with 4 onboard.

Superb for Highway are a complete no no for me. Too expensive troublesome take long distance + the getting stuck thing stays.

Originally Posted by GTO

On the other hand, if you need something more practical + for highway trips, it has to be the Fortuner Facelift from your shortlisted cars.

Then why not the Pajero Sport, similar year, similar featured will be much cheaper to buy.

Originally Posted by cool_dube

Don't even consider it, given the intended usage as outlined by you! Think of it as no more than a contemporary Gypsy. You need a full-blown 7-seater SUV, for those "snow" trips

I know it would be, but it just looks and feels so temping, not a serious choice, just a want

Originally Posted by cool_dube

Since you have not explicitly mentioned your budget, I'll take the best possible shot at this - your best bet is a pre-owned Fortuner, sub-par ride quality notwithstanding. You will love the ride of a Pajero Sport - in addition to sweet deals you can get - but I would not recommend it for the horrible after-sales support. More recommendations can follow once you share you budget.

My budget is preferably under 7L, as that's the money I have left after selling my mobilio and gypsy, but I can increase it, if it makes a big difference.

Originally Posted by raunak2X90

Look for other 4x4 suvs like the safari or the xuv500. Parts will be cheap and readily available. They are very comfortable for your usage as a long distance tourer with decent off road capability. Plus creature comforts are better than the old gen pajero. If you find an awd duster or a vmax, they can also be a fun alternative though strictly 5 seater.

Safaris aren't nearly as reliable as pajeros and fortuners, I need the best reliability. XUV is a AWD and not a 4x4, seen it stuck on light muddy trails. Same goes for Duster. I don't know what a vmax is, I think you mean a vcross. It was a serious contender till 2-3 months ago, but recently the used prices for it have rocketed up. 30-40% up now.

Originally Posted by abnormalspirit

Hi shanu your basic requirement is mentioned at least 4 to 6 people should seat for trip so that is not possible, better go for fortuner it’s a allrounder for highway and off-road trails, moreover toyota relatability.

That seems like the popular choice and the safest bet I think.


I would be replacing the shocks and springs on either the fortuners or pajeros, to Ironman or Old Man Emus with the 2 inch lift, before the next monsoon, would that make the fortuner's ride quality better? Which is currently pretty bad as mentioned by various BHPians multiple times in multiple places.

[abnormalspirit]

I was using pajero sport during 2013 to 2017 it's a solid build car better comfort compare to fortuner but only issue is that how long mitsubishi will survive in india so spare parts availability also a big headache. Better buy a fortuner and upgrade tire and ironman suspension setup.
I am also in same boat confusing between Fortuner 4x4 vs endeavour 4x4 3.2L

[cool_dube]

Originally Posted by abhayshanu

Then why not the Pajero Sport, similar year, similar featured will be much cheaper to buy...

I would recommend a Pajero Sport or SFX over a Fortuner any day, primarily for the ride quality/comfort. You would absolutely NOT need to upgrade the suspension to OME (costing close to a lac), given the lovely ride offered by both of these. Pick the Pajero Sport if you can stretch your budget to 12-13 lac - you will get some really good examples in that range. If not, a 2011/12 SFX can be had for 8-9 lac in Bombay.

However, the flipside with Mitsubishi cars in India is the pathetic after-sales support and expensive parts. If you are okay to do some legwork in terms of procuring the parts yourself (I can help you with that) and getting things done at a FNG (there are quite a few in the vicinity of Mumbai) then do give these SUVs a serious thought. Absolute bang for the buck, as opposed to the grossly overpriced Fortuners available in the used car market, horrible ride quality notwithstanding.

Originally Posted by abnormalspirit

I was using pajero sport during 2013 to 2017 it's a solid build car better comfort compare to fortuner but only issue is that how long mitsubishi will survive in india so spare parts availability also a big headache.

Correct! Sad to see a lovely product suffering due to poor after-sales. Mitsubishi cars are beautifully engineered and a delight to drive.

[abhayshanu]

Originally Posted by cool_dube

I would recommend a Pajero Sport or SFX over a Fortuner any day, primarily for the ride quality/comfort. You would absolutely NOT need to upgrade the suspension to OME (costing close to a lac), given the lovely ride offered by both of these.

The GC for both the Fortuner s and Pajeros would be lower than what's needed for some good offroading and also would face clearance issue when installing M/T Tyres, which is what I will do during monsoons, so installing a suspension would definitely be something I do max by next monsoon.

Originally Posted by cool_dube

Pick the Pajero Sport if you can stretch your budget to 12-13 lac - you will get some really good examples in that range. If not, a 2011/12 SFX can be had for 8-9 lac in Bombay.

Pajero Sports, 2012s and 2013 4x4 Manual are going for 7-9L depending on condition, same price for a 2009-2011 Fortuner. 2010-2012 SFXs go for as low as 3L, for not so good cars to 5L for decent ones and upto 7L for pristine condition single owner ones.

Originally Posted by cool_dube

However, the flipside with Mitsubishi cars in India is the pathetic after-sales support and expensive parts. If you are okay to do some legwork in terms of procuring the parts yourself (I can help you with that) and getting things done at a FNG (there are quite a few in the vicinity of Mumbai) then do give these SUVs a serious thought. Absolute bang for the buck, as opposed to the grossly overpriced Fortuners available in the used car market, horrible ride quality notwithstanding.

I service and modify my cars at my friend's garage and he can source all parts for most cars. He does service alot of mitsubishis also, but that's here in Bombay. My biggest fear is going to a smaller city, like let's say bikaner(where I had to replace my qualis's coolant bottle once), and be stuck without the basic parts availablity.

[AMG Power]

The THAR is a lifestyle vehicle in as much as a two seater sports car is one. It cannot be a vehicle that you use on a regular basis.

The Thar is best for off road sessions or a short leisure drive on a Sunday or an open top visit to the neighbourhood coffee shop.

From a read of the reviews, the Thar will also be hazardous if driven at high speeds. In fact it's speedometer shows the red line at 80 kmph! That is something the speedometers of Ambassadors of yore used to have.

Not being able to drive fast, seating constraints, bad handling, uncomfortable ride and more makes the Thar very impractical. You have to be really carried away by the exterior design and the thrill of open top motoring to like this one.

[cool_dube]

Originally Posted by abhayshanu

The GC for both the Fortuner s and Pajeros would be lower than what's needed for some good offroading and also would face clearance issue when installing M/T Tyres, which is what I will do during monsoons, so installing a suspension would definitely be something I do max by next monsoon.

Looks like you intend to use the vehicle for serious mud-plugging as well as long distance touring! Do note that the more you raise these trucks, the more unstable they will be at highway speeds!!

Originally Posted by abhayshanu

Pajero Sports, 2012s and 2013 4x4 Manual are going for 7-9L depending on condition, same price for a 2009-2011 Fortuner. 2010-2012 SFXs go for as low as 3L, for not so good cars to 5L for decent ones and upto 7L for pristine condition single owner ones.

Those are some mouth-watering prices, compared to Bangalore! The used car market here is insane, especially when it comes to SUVs However, I would caution against anything which is more than 5-6 years old. You never know when the 10-yr NGT ruling might hit other metros.

Originally Posted by abhayshanu

I service and modify my cars at my friend's garage and he can source all parts for most cars. He does service alot of mitsubishis also, but that's here in Bombay. My biggest fear is going to a smaller city, like let's say bikaner(where I had to replace my qualis's coolant bottle once), and be stuck without the basic parts availablity.

You would rarely face such a situation with a reliable vehicle like the Pajero or the Fortuner, if at all. I did a 7000+ km Bangalore-Spiti run on my (then) 8-yr old SFX without a single glitch.

[abhayshanu]

Originally Posted by cool_dube

Looks like you intend to use the vehicle for serious mud-plugging as well as long distance touring! Do note that the more you raise these trucks, the more unstable they will be at highway speeds!!

Yes, but for 8 months a year, the car will only have the lifted suspension, not the M/T tyres, and I've driven a 2" lifted SFX, didn't feel any less stable than a normal one

Originally Posted by cool_dube

Those are some mouth-watering prices, compared to Bangalore! The used car market here is insane, especially when it comes to SUVs However, I would caution against anything which is more than 5-6 years old. You never know when the 10-yr NGT ruling might hit other metros.

Prices have dropped drastically I'm the past 2 years, and a 6 year old would be a Pajero Sport or a Facelift Fortuner, priced 4-5L apart. Also, even if the 10 year rule comes into being, I'm ok with it. I doubt I'll keep this car for 5 years. It should be upgraded in 3 years to maybe a 2016+ Endeavour 3.2 4x4.

Originally Posted by cool_dube

You would rarely face such a situation with a reliable vehicle like the Pajero or the Fortuner, if at all. I did a 7000+ km Bangalore-Spiti run on my (then) 8-yr old SFX without a single glitch.

Facing such a situation is rare, it if it were a Mitsubishi I wouldn't be able to find a local mech who can temporarily solve the problem and head up to a big city and get it fixed/replaced properly without actually loosing any vacation days. I had lost 3 hours of vacation time, as that's how long Toyota took to replace my coolant bottle at Chandigarh.

[abhayshanu]

Update :-

Thar is out, long waiting period and short length doesn't make sense.

Pajero SFX is out as it's really old and basically a dinosaur.

Fortuner is now the top option, but if I find a great Pajero Sport, that would be considered (cruise control)


After some searching, found a great rare SUV.
4x4
Diesel
Comfortable
Realiable
Feature rich
Best part, Automatic.

Mitsubishi Montero
I'm sure it's got the same part sourcing problems of the other mitsubishis or would it be more? I'm able to find a few 2008+ ones for between 6-12L pan India. If I can't find a decent one in MH, I would be ok to go to another state and re-register the car here. But that's an added cost and hassle but if the car is worth it, I wouldn't mind.

[rudraksh2005]

Hi!

I came across this thread and found very knowledgeable people here- hence this query which is definitely off topic (Mods please feel free to move it if you think appropriate).
I am looking for an SUVish drive- primarily city use and occasional highway. I dont really fancy the sedans. It will be mainly self driver (occasionally driver).
I am 6ft 2 and need my leg room as does my son.
I don't really do any off-roading other than what Bangalore's roads throw my way on the daily commute.
Looking for a pre owned car from max 2016 or newer(used approved would be ideal) in a price range of 32-36L. My options so far were the Discovery Sport (petrol), BMW X1 or X3, Merc GLE.
Discovery sport: I really liked the understated looks, seating comfort and space. Concerns regarding service and other issues on the forums worry me- anybody who has personal experience your thoughts would be much appreciated.
The BMWs were real fun to drive but hard to get sth near my price point within the age range and it doesn't really feel like an SUV- i like the high seating!!
The GLE was great but iits big and out of production. Pricing is again an issue.
I really don't like the GLC (strongly recommended on another thread- too flashy and no fun to drive). Haven't seen the Q5 but found the Q3 very cramped and accordingly don't have too many expectations.
Endeavour/Fortuner- seem huge and a pain to drive in Bangalore traffic (i know the GLE and discovery sport aren't much smaller but...)
Looking forward to any advice and suggestions. Thanks.

MOD Note : Please proof read your post before submission, also it would be good to run a spell-check before posting.

Thanks.