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-   -   Which MUV/SUV to replace a 9-year old Fortuner | Toyota Innova HyCross vs Škoda Kodiaq (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/suvs-muvs-4x4s/271360-muv-suv-replace-9-year-old-fortuner-toyota-innova-hycross-vs-koda-kodiaq.html)

Have been planning to change my Fortuner for sometime now, it’s a MY2014 4X2 MT Diesel run 1.09 Lakh kilometres till now.



It’s in the best of its health overall and has not stranded us anywhere till date.
The reasons we’re considering selling the Fortuner are:
- Ingress and egress has become a pain-point for my parents in the Fortuner, who will be the primary users of the car.
- Bumpy ride in the Fortuner is something they didn’t mind for the last 9 years but as they are getting older (my parents are in their late 50s) they’re finding it a bit difficult eventhough they don’t say the same.
- It’s a Diesel, the way the government is making new rules and norms gives us jitters whether we will be able to sell the car when we do and will it return peanuts at that time, this is a question which no one can answer today…

The SHORTLIST: Short and Sweet:
1. Innova HyCross VX(O) 8 seater



Things we Liked about this new entrant:
- Hybrid powertrain is the main talking point. My mother wants a hybrid only now. The silence at startup and as well as while on the move gives it vast superiority over our Diesel Fortuner.
- Loads of space in all 3 rows, for example: I sat back to back in the Hycross and 2nd gen Fortuner facelift at the dealership and I was in for a shock when I saw difference in legroom between the two, where the driver’s seat was set to my height in both, the flat footboard in the 2nd row helps as well. 100mm more of wheelbase and a monocoque chassis gives the HyCross a massive advantage in terms of space over the Fortuner.
- Features galore on an Innova is something I really didn’t expect from Toyota but they did nonetheless.
- Hybrid powertrain ensures that the fuel economy is brilliant in the city and on highways up till a particular speed.
- Ride quality is just supreme, blows the Fortuner out of the park… We had taken a test drive on the top-end ZX(O) which has 18 inchers, with the VX(O)’s 17 inchers the ride quality will be even better.
- With the HyCross we will continue staying in the known and reliable Toyota ecosystem, like we have been for the last 17 years.
- 8 years and 1,60,000kms hybrid battery warranty from factory inspires confidence
- Light Electric assisted Power steering unlike the Fortuner’s Hydraulic unit means it’s extremely easy to navigate the car in tight Mumbai roads and at the same time weighs up well as speeds pick up.

Things we Loathed about this new entrant:
- Absolutely pathetic interior plastic quality, even our 2005 OG Innova was better than this!!
- The eCVT makes the engine vocal at even a slight tap of the accelerator pedal which makes anyone just back-off from the pedal.
- No 8 seater option on the top-end ZX trim.
- Long waiting period stretching between 12-18 months
- VX(O) misses out on leather seats and an electrically operated driver’s seat which our Fortuner has.
- Will not be as abuse-friendly like our Fortuner not that other Toyota monocoques aren’t surviving on our roads, but still it’s a point that crosses one’s mind often.
- The 360 degree camera quality is appalling to say the least.
- As reported by many users the headlights need a major upgrade, and they can’t be altered since the main beam is sealed and if you change the fog lamps from the aftermarket your warranty goes for a toss.

Just to mention we have already booked the HyCross VX(O) 8 seater in Blackish Ageha Glass Flakes colour on 04/09/23. Now if I want I can get the HyCross a bit early by using some contacts in TKM or the dealership itself, but I’m in no hurry. Don’t want to buy something which I’ll regret at a later date.

2. Škoda Kodiaq Sportline / L&K









Things my parents Liked:
- Feels just like a proper premium car from the big 3 if you hide the Škoda badge!
- Has even more features than our BMW
- The ingress and egress was even more easier than the Innova HyCross.
- The ride quality was much better than the Fortuner, the DCC on the L&K test-drive car was a boon.

Things my parents Loathed:
- It’s a 5+2: Lack of space in the 3rd row, when my dad tried to enter the 3rd row, the SA himself didn’t allow him to enter I quote “it’s only for pets and not even for small kids, you’ll get a cramp if you go in! ”
- TSI engines have a habit of gulping down their oil at some insane levels.
- The SA was clear that it’s a 5 seater
- We have absolutely no idea how is Škoda‘s after-sales and support, have read so many Škoda horror stories that it just doesn’t inspire confidence.
- The DQ381 maybe a wet clutch DCT, but it’s still a VW DSG at the end of the day. Right on the forum there is a Tiguan Allspace owned by a member who has had his DQ381 unit changed twice.
- The Kodiaq being a CKD and not manufactured here, part availability can become a major problem 5-6 years later down the line, considering we will be keeping the car for a minimum of 10 years. The next generation Kodiaq is also due soon in 2024, but it’ll be crossing the 50L OTR barrier for sure, which will exceed our already stretched budget.

This is a very difficult case of HEART vs MIND

The HEART wants the Kodiaq

I have always loved the Kodiaq, because it simply punches above its weight and not just one segment (X1, Q3 and GLA) but a whole two segments (X3, Q5 and GLC). But Škoda’s lack of interest in giving the Kodiaq the E20 compatible 2.0L TSI was a major deterrent. My X3 30i is E25 compatible for reference. When I read about a member getting the E20 sticker on his car, I jumped out of my chair and brought the Kodiaq back into the shortlist with a bang.

We want a 7 seater simple, the Kodiaq just about qualifies for the criteria, we don’t use the 3rd row as often now but still the fact that our Fortuner has a pretty usable one makes it a bad pre-shortlist shortcoming for the Kodiaq.

And the after-sales quality, reliability of the DQ381 and parts availability few years down the line gives me anxiety and is something I don’t want my parents to go through just because I want the Kodiaq.

The MIND has a very simple and solid case for itself like always with the Innova HyCross.

Stick with a Toyota that we have been associated for the last 17 years, no issues on the after-sales and part availability front. Can be serviced at a meagre cost throughout its life time with us. Has oodles and oodles of space across the cabin. Hybrid will ensure low running cost and a bit of saving-the-environment from our side.

Both the Innova HyCross and Škoda Kodiaq are fantastic products in their own way, both punch well above their weights

Should we compromise on quality of plastics, a slightly underpowered engine, long waiting period, slightly lesser features in the VX(O) and poor overall headlights and go for the Innova HyCross VX(O) 8 seater

OR

Should we compromise on the overall after-sales and parts availability at a later date, space in the 3rd row, reliability of the DQ381 and go with the Škoda Kodiaq L&K / Sportline.

So which one should we go with? HEART vs HEAD. This is the 3.4 million rupee question that I can’t seem to wrap my head around!

Looking forward to reading all the opinions shared by the esteemed members of the forum.

I would Suggest go with the Hycross as you already have X3 a pretty good German All-Rounder, we also would have considered Kodiaq if it had a diesel engine, 2.0 TSI will be a fuel guzzler for Sure, you already have a petrol X3.

Hycross has better Space and ride quality compared to Kodiaq ,will keep your Family Happy for a long time and I fell would be a good upgrade over Fortuner.

The options in the 40-50L segment are very limited. I recently got the ZX(O) Hycross. I drove around 4,500 kms the past 4 months. I also own a 2018 Fortuner 4x2 MT. Your observations are spot on with regards to the Hycross.

Major cons of the Hycross:

1. The lights are absolutely trash. Sometimes I wonder if they’re even switched on. The fog lights on the Hycross are trash as well. The Fortuner has a visible difference when the fog lights are switched on, whereas the fogs on the Hycross lit up the road right infront of the bonnet that you can’t even see and I’m 6’2.

2. Engine gets ridiculously noisy when you hit the accelerator, especially on the highways. Innova is supposed to be a highway champ, but due to the engine noise, CVT and lights, it’s now a city champ.

But why I got the Hycross?

I test drove the Kodiaq first. Absolutely loved it. The seats, the DCC, the engine, the audio and the second row. All top class. Four drawbacks were reliability issues, low end turbo lag, fuel efficiency and resale value. Service with Skoda in Vizag is bad as well. Test drove first from my current house to my office (2.5km) and the car returned 6.5 kmpl. Next, I drove from my new house to my office (14km one way) and the car returned 8.5 kmpl. In Vizag, we don’t have the same traffic present in Mumbai or Hyderabad. On the other hand, my hycross returns 10-12 kmpl from my old house and 15-18 kmpl from my new house. I know there are a set of BHP’ians to whom efficiency isn’t a priority, but for me it is.

I never had the opportunity to test drive the Hycross because it wasn’t available. We also have a 2008 280,000 kms run Innova and our Fortuner is at around 85,000 kms. Not once in 15 years we had a breakdown. Service bills are always very reasonable. So, based on our prior experience with Toyota, we blindly got the Hycross. A car wouldn’t have a 2 year wait period if the car wasn’t good, would it?

Major pros of the Hycross:

1. Suspension is soft and balanced. Body roll is decent. This was exactly what I was looking for after 5 years with the Fortuner.

2. Fuel efficiency is good when driven sedately. If you drive it like a normal ICE, then it’s as efficient as an ICE. I’ve even got 5 kmpl and also got 16-20 kmpl. On the same route, I can get 10 kmpl and also get 16-18 kmpl. The hybrid tests your patience to the limit.

3. It’s a proper 6 seater. First two rows are top class for the price. Good wide seats. Parents and friends love the comfort.

4. Fortuner’s steering literally gives me shoulder pain at times. The hycross is the polar opposite. You can turn the steering with one finger.

So, the light steering with ventilated and comfortable seats and wireless CarPlay with good enough audio and the smooth CVT with the petrol hybrid makes it a fabulous car in the city. This is what I wanted in my daily car. Ticks all the boxes. Hycross is a good daily city car. On the highways, it’s the opposite. The engine noise, the CVT and the lights make me regret buying the Hycross. Not that you can drive the Hycross on the highway with those horrible lights. Fortunately, I have the Fortuner MT for highways. The Hycross is a no nonsense comfortable and efficient car that can last 10-15 years, whereas the Kodiaq is a fancier comfortable inefficient sophisticated car. Both have their pros and cons. Depends on your running and priorities.

Cheers!

I know you are tempted by the Kodiaq, but you already have a fun crossover in the X3.

Pick the Innova Hycross. You'll save a couple of lakhs, its more practical, spacious, reliable, efficient. Most importantly, your parents will love it more than the Kodiaq. After all, they are the primary users of this car.

I believe any garage should have diversity. Instead of two German crossovers parked side by side, I'd any day prefer a German SUV (your X3 for the fun & engineering) alongside a practical MPV. The latter can also be put through the rough use you wouldn't subject an X3 to.

Since you already own an X3, I'd suggest you to get the Hycross since it's Hybrid and also will be reliable and cheaper to run and maintain being a Toyota.

And, your parents will be satisfied with the comfort and space the Hycross offers.

As a recent owner of Hycross bought in July-end, I find the third row to be comfy and way better than the OG Innova that we owned before, Crysta and Fortuner (3rd row is unbearable).

Also, its very easy to drive in city limits, thanks to light steering.

I've driven our Hycross for nearly 3000 Kms before I moved out of country in mid-Aug and another 3000+ Kms were added by dad and chauffeur.

And, our folks are getting around 14-17 Kmpl in city depending on the traffic and I got 18 Kmpl on highway once.

This is the kind of dilemma many of us face. As I see it, the first question you need to resolve is whether you need a 7 seater (and who will be in the 6th and 7th seats). If it is anyone other than a 5-6 year old, or extremely rare usage, I would rule out the Kodiaq - even Skoda calls it a 5+2 seater and specifies that the rear row is not meant for people above a certain height.

But assuming that is not a deal breaker, I do think this is a debate worth entering into. The temptation to follow the head for a second car when you already have an X3 is high. But for me, any car at home should be something I would be willing to drive when needed. And at least the Innova Crysta did not not meet that test. Have never driven a Hycross - but if it drives anywhere near as well as the Kia Carnival does (without being as long), I think it would come back into the reckoning.

So while I may not be solving the problem, if this car is mainly for your parents to use with very occasional use of the last row (by kids), and you may drive it from time to time, I would pick the Kodiaq.

Agree with your observations. Hycross interiors are really bad and so many cheap materials ruin the experience part. However, powertrain, ride, and space makes up for it. Unfortunately, there really isn't any competition for this car at the current price. XUV700 might come the closest.

Kodiaq, while a great 5-seater you really can't seat any adult back there in the 3rd-row, plus luggage space goes for a toss while using it as a full 7-seater car.

I would also recommend taking a look at the Maruti Suzuki Invicto. I had done an in-depth comparison of VX(O) vs. Alpha+ and I think Alpha+ comes out in front (but only available as a 7-seater, i.e. no bench).

Invicto Alpha+ vs. Hycross VX(O)

Invicto Alpha+ ex-showroom price 7-seater – 28,42,000
Hycross VX(O) ex-showroom price 7-seater – 27,27,000 (add 5,000 for 8-seater)

Features you gain vs. VX(O) –

1. Leatherette seats
2. Ventilated front seats
3. Powered driver’s seat with memory function
4. Electric tailgate
5. Dual zone climate control
6. Wheel arch cladding

Features you lose vs VX(O) –

1. LED front fog lamps

More details here - https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offic...ml#post5601919

Hey friend,
Usually in all heart to head cases, I would recommend to go with your heart, BUT, this case is unique. Only because you own an X3! Which should continue to take care of that heart. And in my knowledge, you haven’t even crossed 10k on the ODO. And as for the Toyota badge, the only brand which appreciates in value when it’s time to sell.
Go with Innova Hycross. Not same, but I was in a similar dilemma when my sister was shopping, she had X1 in mind and I was doing my best to sell her the Hycross to have some diversity in our garage. Happy shopping:thumbs up

Consider the upcoming new Kia Carnival, setting aside the Diesel concerns temporarily. I think it meets almost all your requirements.

Hi, since your replacement preferences are at the higher end, I hesitated to comment, nevertheless.

I recently sold of my Fortuner Pre-facelift 2WD AT 1L + Kms for very similar reasons, especially the dying diesel and heavy to drive. The car was fantastic with all the macho values attached to it. But, I decided to give it off.

I replaced it with a Kia Carens 1.5 Turbo 7 Speed DCT. This one gave me the best of everything - Turbo Petrol, a decently powered (158 BHP) engine, very nice transmission, good features, acceptable built, Internal Safety Kit, above all extremely spacious / roomy with easy ingress and egress. It ticked all the boxes for 20+L against the Hycross etc., at 33+L. Yes, the only negative could be, it does not have the imposing stance, but it is still an MUV and your post also states SUV or MUV recommendation - So, check it out and you can save a lot of money :)

People might question the crash test safety ratings - not sure how many 5 Star rated MUVs I can get in the budget I had, so..

Swami

If it’s primarily for city use and 7 seater isn’t a mandatory factor in your buying decision why not take the plunge and go for ionic 5. With home charging and it’s decent battery packs their wouldn’t be range anxiety within city use. You wouldn’t need to compromise with NVH as you are having to do with Hycross.
Being a globally acclaimed product and having won many awards it would complement your garage alongside a German sedan.

Any specific reason why the Jeep Compass or the Meridien were not considered? Both have the comfort and safety as their USP.

I'd suggest you to go for Invicto over the Hycross. You'll save a decent amount of money for practically the same vehicle. If it's not going to used much on highways, Karens, Alcazar and Hector plus CVT are also very family friendly vehicles. They have good ride quality, plush interiors and an overall a very comfortable riding experience.

Kodiaq is certainly a nice car but the buyer needs to appreciate its strengths (high build quality, driving dynamics and ride comfort) so much that he is willing to overlook its weaknesses (reliability glitches combined with poor customer service). For the right buyer, it's still a great car given the dearth of choices in our market offering such a nice package. In your case, I think compromising on the not so good build quality of Hycross would be the right thing to do. You should use Fortuner (instead of X3) as the baseline for comparison in which case I am sure Hycross offers a lot of positives. Hybrid drivetrain is really a thing to live with and Toyota customer service really complements the overall experience.

I would suggest you to look at the new Tuscon as well! It makes a good case for itself as a city car. The backseat is supposed to be quite comfortable as per all reviews. Being a Hyundai should also make the ASS tolerable.