[Sutripta]

Originally Posted by ashokbh

Hi Experts/Enthusiasts,
....
I want something that is roomy, can pack in stuff for wife and a five-year-old who seem to need endless pieces of baggage on these journeys. I need a sturdy vehicle with high road clearance, one that scores high on the safety standpoint, given the distances I shall continue to travel. Ideally, I would have liked to upgrade to the Endeavour, for I am very happy with Ford, but can't as I have started out on my own. I am looking for a cheaper option, but with all possible safety features at a lower price.

Please advise.

Ashok

Leaving aside exotics, my first choice would be the Aria. It might die on you (very likely), but you are less likely to die in one!

Second choice would be the Safari.

Between Xylo and Scorpio, I'd choose the Xylo. It is roomier (use it as a 5 seater) And I think (hope) it has better structural integrity, being a second design attempt for MM. Scorpios 2.2 is the better engine, but in normal driving of the Xylo, and dont find myself saying 'I wish I had the mHawk'.
Pls. note, these are not stable, esp under braking. Given the dynamics of the Ikon, this might come as a very unpleasant surprise.

Regards
Sutripta

[phamilyman]

Ref the scorpio's handling - that is no longer true. Here is where google comes to the rescue.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ts-safari.html

Originally Posted by tsk1979

This thing is so silent. Its like a petrol car. And we are not even getting tossed around due to the bumpy road.
We come to the main road, and its my turn to drive it.
I press the accelerator, and there she goes.
The TD is turning out to be disbelief session. Now I am sure the Safari 2.2 we TD'd was a bad piece.
But since the safari is obviously a better vehicle, this car should have a very shoddy handling. So I yank the steering just to see the composure, and she goes like a sedan, well almost.
I floor the pedal to the metal at 60kmph in 5th gear(expecting hell breaking loose with all sorts of agricultural noises), but nada. With just a hint of clatter, she pulls cleanly to 90, at that point I slam the brakes expecting the ABS not to work, but wow, she just stops without much drama.
This is not good.

......

Well she does so, and drives through heavy traffic back to Koyenco. The look of disbelief on her face echo's mine.
And then we come to the logical conclusion. OF course the particular TD mule of Safari was bad, and we have to TD a safari with ABS to see the light.
So the next day, we go off to sterling, and TD the safari again. 4000kms done, first service done.
Our worst fears have come true, our deity has failed us. Its crude, its agricultural, and as you floor the accelerator in 5th gear at 70kmph, it makes weird noises. Ditto for 80. It does not like flooring at 2200rpm in 3,4,5 gears. And otherwise also there is a distinct lag before it pulls like a locomotive.
Fortunately the braking is as good as the scorpio, but the handling, well in my wife's words "Buffalo on steroids".
The whole thing shakes if you do sudden lane change maneuver.

So after two TDs we are really dejected. Our purchase decision which was as firm as mount everest has changed as much as the shifting sands of Thar.

He bought a safari for the 4x4 (despite the problems later!) - you can see his other thread as well!

As a Swift diesel owner, I'd vouch for it anyday. Its simply bulletproof reliable. However, comfortable it is not. My 65 year old mom hates the rear seat compared to the Indica(v2, 2006 xeta). Its however a fantastic driver's car - with decent tyres it is a hoot to drive all day long! Though I still wish it had the getzD's engine or something more tractable.

Of course, I'd normally even suggest an i10 1.2 (super cool imnsho unless one wants the handling) but you being an ikon owner, I'd pass on that!

[SS-Traveller]

I'd suggest, try the Scorpio with middle row captain seats - the ride comfort improves dramatically.

[phamilyman]

As and when I'd upgrade 3+ years later, I would be confused on similar lines - but this captain seat logic beats me.

While its easier to sit in - are they comfortable to sleep overnight in?

For example - I recall a palio egroup post once where someone folded down his rear seat, put cushions in the rear leg space thus giving his kids a flat bed to play/sleep in. And did a 1000+km journey with ease.

That image does not seem to agree with the comfort of a captain seat (are bench seats foldable?) & the fixed alignment.

So maybe I'd now suggest an Optra diesel instead - super ride and stonker of an engine. just check the GC. and ofc, no 4x4. Oh wait - what is Maruti saying about the SX4 diesel launch. That should be the car to have. Killer GC. Maruti reliability and widespread parts availability! And the ride is decent (though not optra class)

[Aroy]

Originally Posted by phamilyman

While its easier to sit in - are they comfortable to sleep overnight in?

For example - I recall a palio egroup post once where someone folded down his rear seat, put cushions in the rear leg space thus giving his kids a flat bed to play/sleep in. And did a 1000+km journey with ease.

If you do not need the last row, you can easily leave it at home. It is a tool less job. Then you have a large area where you can put your mattresses!

But for long distance cruising, especially what is indicated here, Innova is the best bet, especially if there are four persons or less. You get the Toyota reliability, service every where, taxi drivers to help you out if you are stuck (reminds me of the Ambassador days, when you could get help any where in the country). The only down side is GC, but if you can do it in a sedan, then you can do it in an Innova.

[Sutripta]

Originally Posted by phamilyman

Ref the scorpio's handling - that is no longer true. Here is where google comes to the rescue.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ts-safari.html

The thread is dated 2008, but let me tell you, in 2009, they were both scary. I don't know what it is now (2010)

Regards
Sutripta

[MileCruncher]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

Ashok requires a car that can cover long distances and I'm not sure if the Scorpio will deliver on that front. I do agree that the Scorpio is one car that can take quite a lot of abuse. And yes, it's quite roomy and the FE figures can be good.

Is the Scorpio good for covering long distances? I've heard that the ride is very bad and the Safari is way better in that department. However, the engine that powers the new Scorpio is a stonker without doubt!

What most of the respondents to the seem to have forgotten and given a miss on the OP's requirement is that the vehicle is going be driven a lot of the Chattisgarh Highways and he also does a lot of BOM - CCU which means traveling thru UP,Bihar and Jharkhand as well. The OP also goes on to state that his Ikno 1.6 has already seen lot of that strain. If you haven't travelled in that part of the country by road then you don't know any clue what we are talking about.

To me he needs only and MUV/SUV and no sedan / hatch will come anywhere near.

I would suggest choosing between Safari, Scorpio and Xylo. Leave Innova out as most of the exoticplaces don't have Toyota deaership but definitely have M&M and TATA dealership.

Originally Posted by phamilyman

As and when I'd upgrade 3+ years later, I would be confused on similar lines - but this captain seat logic beats me.

While its easier to sit in - are they comfortable to sleep overnight in?

For example - I recall a palio egroup post once where someone folded down his rear seat, put cushions in the rear leg space thus giving his kids a flat bed to play/sleep in. And did a 1000+km journey with ease.

That image does not seem to agree with the comfort of a captain seat (are bench seats foldable?) & the fixed alignment.

In the Xylo the rear captain seats fold down to allow you to make an almost fat bed like Biz Class.

But my wife likes the rear bench as she goes to her sleep there while I drive on our 1000 Kms sojourn.

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by MileCruncher

What most of the respondents to the seem to have forgotten and given a miss on the OP's requirement is that the vehicle is going be driven a lot of the Chattisgarh Highways and he also does a lot of BOM - CCU which means traveling thru UP,Bihar and Jharkhand as well. The OP also goes on to state that his Ikno 1.6 has already seen lot of that strain. If you haven't travelled in that part of the country by road then you don't know any clue what we are talking about.

To me he needs only and MUV/SUV and no sedan / hatch will come anywhere near.

I would suggest choosing between Safari, Scorpio and Xylo. Leave Innova out as most of the exoticplaces don't have Toyota deaership but definitely have M&M and TATA dealership.

Well, I haven't traveled in that part of the Country by road, but that doesn't mean I have no clue as to what you are talking about. I do stay in India and I've seen my share of bad roads. The Chattisgarh highway may be bad, but it isn't the only bad stretch of tarmac in India. There are places around the South that are equally bad.

But when it comes to dealerships, Yes, Toyota may not have presence there. But if his Ikon could hold up despite the strain, the Innova would breeze through it. If the Innova still isn't your choice, then I suggest the Safari. In the long run, it's the more comfortable car of the two (Scorpio and Safari) and when you're doing long-distances, the more comfortable car should be the automatic choice.

One might argue that the front seats in the Scorpio are good, unlike the rear seats, but the Safari is the more comfortable car. I'm not sure about the Xylo as I haven't experienced it myself.

[Aroy]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

Well, I haven't traveled in that part of the Country by road, but that doesn't mean I have no clue as to what you are talking about. I do stay in India and I've seen my share of bad roads. The Chattisgarh highway may be bad, but it isn't the only bad stretch of tarmac in India. There are places around the South that are equally bad.

I must say then you have no idea how bad the roads in the interior can get. I was working on a road project - Seoni-Balaghat-Rajegaon. Five years ago the road surface was non existing and it took 6 to 7 hours to traverse 100km in a Geep. Taxi and others refused to go in any thing less than a Marshal or a Bolero!

[MileCruncher]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

Well, I haven't traveled in that part of the Country by road, but that doesn't mean I have no clue as to what you are talking about. I do stay in India and I've seen my share of bad roads. The Chattisgarh highway may be bad, but it isn't the only bad stretch of tarmac in India. There are places around the South that are equally bad.

I humbly beg to differ

Originally Posted by Aroy

I must say then you have no idea how bad the roads in the interior can get. I was working on a road project - Seoni-Balaghat-Rajegaon. Five years ago the road surface was non existing and it took 6 to 7 hours to traverse 100km in a Geep. Taxi and others refused to go in any thing less than a Marshal or a Bolero!

During my Del- Hyd run in Sep 2008 thru the North - South Link in a hatch back, the stretch between Lalitpur - Sagar - Lakhnadon is so bad that it took me about 16 Hrs to cover ~300 Kms. And that too with damaging my suspension and disc pad. Details of my agony listed here http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/travel...abad-trip.html

Cheers

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by Aroy

I must say then you have no idea how bad the roads in the interior can get. I was working on a road project - Seoni-Balaghat-Rajegaon. Five years ago the road surface was non existing and it took 6 to 7 hours to traverse 100km in a Geep. Taxi and others refused to go in any thing less than a Marshal or a Bolero!

Oh that does look pretty bad. Unfortunately, I don't have pictures to show the Bangalore - Haveri - Sirsi - Kumta stretch back in '06. These pictures remind me of them. We lost our exhaust and one of the shock-absorbers failed on our Ikon during that stint, not to mention one puncture and another minor issue. Some of the ditches were so deep that we got stuck and needed assistance.

Originally Posted by MileCruncher

I humbly beg to differ

Cheers

Likewise

[alisajid]

I think going for a mercedes w124 series should also be a good option. You can get it for under 7 lakhs. Its safer then all other cars more reliable and ofcourse comfortable too.Maintaining it is a concern but manageable.

[Aroy]

After going through the Fortuner vs Pajero threads and other Pajero user's views, I have conclude that barring the FE and relatively lower highway speeds the Pajero wins hands down on bad roads
. Pajero suspension is much better than all the competitors, and it is bullet proof, hence will last longer between overhauls, apart from having a much better ride.
. Pajero engine is simpler, so electronic gremlins are practically non existent
. If roads are bad it does not matter if your top speed is 120 or 160, you will definitely be traveling below 100. In fact the majority view of owners is that the Pajero travels faster on bad roads compared to others.

So if you want a bad roader which will go on and on, a Pajero is the vehicle of choice, of course it is much more expensive than Safari, Scorpio or Innova, but think of the routes you can traverse with aplomb and then it makes sense. Of course with its superior suspension, your back will be in a much better shape after a couple of thousand kilometers of bad roads.

[sridhar-v]

Slightly off your requirement. - Do look at the SX4 Petrol. The money you save on upfront cost will offset diesel savings to a great extent. OTR around 8lakhs for manual & 9.2 lakhs for Auto GB. Great handling, ground clearance & a punchy engine.

[SS-Traveller]

^^ This thread is 10 months old, and the OP (ashokbh) has not come back to inform us what car he chose in the meanwhile. No point in discussing this further.