[D.V.R]

One can not be sure how much repairs cost will run upto once the engine is opened as new problems tend to come up.Even the reliability of it will be a concern.At 60k kms the Optra requires a major service involving change of all fluids,belts and filters.It shall cost you another 20-25k rs.

IMHO it would be better to dispose it off unless you are emotionally attached to the car.BTW how much did you pay for it initially?

By whom were you offered 1.45 lakh for it?Optra's of the same vintage go for about 2.5-2.75 lakh.So try striking a deal somewhere around 1.75-2.00 lakh and you shall be fine

[rajismine]

yeah i also wish i get exact estimate and then take a call but the guy who has made an offer has done that based on his calculated risk...and once the engine is opened, he will also have exact idea and i may then loose that offer and thats the only confusion :-(

[pranavt]

Can't believe the compression test because cranking is slow. You've got the check engine light on, right? Why not diagnose that first before opening the whole engine? And even if you have to replace any internals, first get the head lifted to see what's bad instead of removing the whole engine. Will save you massively on labour charges if the problem isn't too big.

Don't get it done through the stealership. Either find a good mechanic through BHP references or go to a reputed garage.

[rajismine]

the offer of 1.45 is from a dealer whom I donno. There is another dealer who is a known and has got me this offer from his another dealer friend

I wanted 1.7 ideally and 1.6 at least. but then these guys started to take advantage and offered 1.25L

Now this guy has made final offer of 1.4 but my dealer friend thinks he can get me 1.45

You are right DVR at 60K there is a big overhaul that costs 20-25K but thats gonna be the case anyways since the engine will be opened. There wont be any extra labour and its only the oils and belts which need replacement anyways and thus it wont be 20-25K but 4-5K

I am not emotional towards the car since its 2nd hand and I dont drive it anyways..but my wife is since its her first completely own car...she has had 8-9 cars before but thats all family you see..

Prabhu at new mars told me that a full engine work of this type will cost his labour charges of 5K max and Lathe charges of about 4K (i guess lathe charges are a little high but lets see)

Prabhu was very comforting and wise and said I am free to get parts on my own or can buy from him too...

I am more bending towards getting it repaird myself since if I buy another used car then again there is no guarantee that it wont run into issues again

The only doubt is that what if the cost of this repair is way too high,

what do you think the max one should spend on this kind of repair.?

[rajismine]

Originally Posted by pranavt

Can't believe the compression test because cranking is slow. You've got the check engine light on, right? Why not diagnose that first before opening the whole engine? And even if you have to replace any internals, first get the head lifted to see what's bad instead of removing the whole engine. Will save you massively on labour charges if the problem isn't too big.

Don't get it done through the stealership. Either find a good mechanic through BHP references or go to a reputed garage.

hello Pranav,

good friends here only have suggested me to go with New Mars/Prabhu and so I did

I am not sure if Prabhu will open the head first and then later pull down the whole engine. I dont understand it too much and hence can only go by trust and Prabhu's recommendation

Engine was starting yesterday and was in engine check mode and was making a bad clutter sound. Prabhu tried cranking today and it does not seem to be starting hence he told me that the compression is too low

I am in a complete confusion...for now have no-one else but to trust Prabhu...and he is a member here too. Prabhu..are you checking this thread out?

regards

Rajeev

[D.V.R]

If thats the case wait till you get to know what the damages are?Did the fools at KUN connect the ECU and tell u why the check engine light is onand the error it is giving?

[rajismine]

nopes. They did not connect the ECU and did not check the error code. I did not think of it as well that time..missed it

infact I donno if the car may just start fine if we reset the ICU. Is there any chance that it is possible?

[rajivanoj]

@ rajismine

I dont think the engine needs major overhaul, since it got started after breakdown. Just open head, rework it, make it flat by scratching out in mm with the help of competent workshop. and change valves if it is bent , refit the head with new head gasket, valve door packing, valves, guides, oil seals.

I think it will be all right if you do these things. why are you selling for 1.4 lakhs.

My toyota 1N diesel also had engine seizure, due to empty coolant, i got it ready with above things

just changed head gasket, valve door packing and head surfacing. i have not even changed valves.

[rajismine]

Originally Posted by rajivanoj

@ rajismine

I dont think the engine needs major overhaul, since it got started after breakdown. Just open head, rework it, make it flat by scratching out in mm with the help of competent workshop. and change valves if it is bent , refit the head with new head gasket, valve door packing, valves, guides, oil seals.

I think it will be all right if you do these things. why are you selling for 1.4 lakhs.

My toyota 1N diesel also had engine seizure, due to empty coolant, i got it ready with above things

just changed head gasket, valve door packing and head surfacing. i have not even changed valves.

u know what...even if this solution does not work...I cant tell you how relieving your words have been...at least I will sleep well today believing what you have said..

Will request Prabhu to first open the head and try on monday then remove the engine if there is noting obvious wrong with the head...will have to take this risk to spend extra on head gasket but will be worth the risk if that solves the issue

[rajeev k]

Tell me how the compression was checked. Simply by cranking one can not assess it.
Moreover even passing valves or broken gaskets can lead to lower compression.

Meanwhile how is the lobe oil condition is it OK or foamy with ingress of coolant or with charge (fuel/air mixture backing from compression chamber)

Once if you decide to do a overhaul start inspections from head first and do it stage by stage so that a proper assessment and a planned methodology of repair adopted.point to be kept in mind is though ths car's second hand price is lower, the spares come at new car comparative prices.

So if you decide to keep the car for at least three years, then do an overhauling and it is definitely worth it. But ensure that a good customer friendly workshop/mechanic does it properly and to your requirement..

[rajismine]

Originally Posted by rajeev k

Tell me how the compression was checked. Simply by cranking one can not assess it.
Moreover even passing valves or broken gaskets can lead to lower compression.

Meanwhile how is the lobe oil condition is it OK or foamy with ingress of coolant or with charge (fuel/air mixture backing from compression chamber)

Once if you decide to do a overhaul start inspections from head first and do it stage by stage so that a proper assessment and a planned methodology of repair adopted.point to be kept in mind is though ths car's second hand price is lower, the spares come at new car comparative prices.

So if you decide to keep the car for at least three years, then do an overhauling and it is definitely worth it. But ensure that a good customer friendly workshop/mechanic does it properly and to your requirement..

I dont know how did they check the compression. the workshop did only a 5 mins primary check on the car I guess and informed me of this result over the phone And that they will open the engine on Monday first hour

The engine oil is ok. Its a little dark and seem burnt a little but no mix of coolant or air

The initial mechanic who helped tow the car to home minutes after breakdown did try to see the plugs and told me that there was oil and coolant mixture on the plug and there was no spark. He told me that the plug wire seems to be cut and replacing that can solve the issue. But I doubt that advise since the car did start well in evening in engine check mode. He then said that all plugs are not getting spark

I dont know how long I want to keep the car. If it turns out to be done well then I will keep it for some time may be an year or so and then will upgrade else may sell in 4-5 months

I think a few things on the checklist shud be this:
1.) check if plugs are getting a spark. if not then plug wire/lead wire could be at fault
2.) Head gasket blown. This could be one thing since wife was driving at 30kmphs when the engine died so the rpm was low. The towing mechanic did fill in coolant and the car started again after 15 mins and died again after 400mtrs. not sure how hard he revved it that time since I was not there

Is it true that of the engine is hot and without coolant. And then if we fill coolant, the head may get cracked?

I dont know..all confused :-( will eagerly wait for monday

Rajeev

[rajeev k]

My observations are in bold.

Originally Posted by rajismine

I dont know how did they check the compression. the workshop did only a 5 mins primary check on the car I guess and informed me of this result over the phone And that they will open the engine on Monday first hour. Compression can fail through valve seats due to burnt valve face. Due to overheating especially exhaust valves.

The engine oil is ok. Its a little dark and seem burnt a little but no mix of coolant or air
That is a good sign.

The initial mechanic who helped tow the car to home minutes after breakdown did try to see the plugs and told me that there was oil and coolant mixture on the plug and there was no spark. It is true. He told me that the plug wire seems to be cut and replacing that can solve the issue. But I doubt that advise since the car did start well in evening in engine check mode. He then said that all plugs are not getting spark.That is also right. If in one cylinder area the gasket fails oil or coolant can get into the combustion chamber and this can foul the spark plug.

I dont know how long I want to keep the car. If it turns out to be done well then I will keep it for some time may be an year or so and then will upgrade else may sell in 4-5 months

I think a few things on the checklist shud be this:
1.) check if plugs are getting a spark. if not then plug wire/lead wire could be at fault That is right.
2.) Head gasket blown. This could be one thing since wife was driving at 30kmphs when the engine died so the rpm was low. The towing mechanic did fill in coolant and the car started again after 15 mins and died again after 400mtrs. not sure how hard he revved it that time since I was not there. Overheating can result in a gasket failure.

Is it true that of the engine is hot and without coolant. And then if we fill coolant, the head may get cracked? Depends on the material of construction. CI may develop hairline cracks, due to sudden quenching. Aluminium heads can buckle.

I dont know..all confused :-( will eagerly wait for monday Keep your cool and don't worry at all.
Except human life, anything is fully resurrectable.

I strongly feel that a head overhaul could make your engine alive and kicking. On the engine block side at the most a piston rings change.

Rajeev

[rajismine]

Hi All,

thanks for all your help so far. A quick update

The issue is with only the valves and coolant inlet pipe. While opening the head, this was discovered:

1.) Valves are stuck. Mostly a bent valve/valves
2.) The coolant inlet pipe that goes into the head corroded leading to Coolant evaporation hence causing this damage
3.) Pistons, Cylinder etc are all fine....its only the valves. The gasket also seemed fine but will replace that and timing belt, fan belt, oil, oil filter etc anyways

Thanks so much guys...will keep you all updated

regards

Rajeev

[rajeev k]

How is the work progressing. It is more than 10 days since the engine has been stripped. Please post the details.

[rajismine]

Hello Guys,

UPDATE: The car came back home last night at 11pm.

1.) Two valves got bent leading to all this

Changes related to this incident and few extras:
1.) Valves Replaced with Performance Valves, made in Japan
2.) Head gasket Replaced
3.) Timing Belt Replaced
4.) Fan Belt Replaced
5.) Timing Tensioner replaced
6.) Miscell:
a.) Tappet cover packing
b.) Valve Oil Seal
c.) Power steering oil, Break oil, Gear oil, engine Oil, Oil filter, Coolant
d.) Cam Shaft oil seal
e.) Crank Shaft oil seal
f.) Pressing button
g.) AC Gas filling (I was told that when engine work is done, A/C gas has to be released and refilled!!!)

and other mechanical charges like Labour, lathe work (Valve replacement and head grinding/smoothening)

So far so good and engine seems to be behaving well. Few niggles here and there for e.g was getting some grinding belt noise last night but vanished this morning. Noise from one suspension on full turn. Silencer/exhaugst packing cut and needs to be replaced etc etc.

but apart from that...car is ALIVE again.

Tx to all of you wonderful guys and Special thanks to Anirudh(Milecruncher), Rajeev K and D.V.R

Rajeev