I have lost the '1.5th Gear' of my Tucson - Pls. help me find it

kamal.sn · 7th July 2011, 22:16

I have lost the 1.5th Gear in My Tucson, request all BHPians to help me find the same !

Sorry, Jokes apart, I am facing a peculiar problem in my Tucson. In the first gear, without me pushing the throttle, the car does a constant ~ 7.5 kmph. In the second gear, the car moves at a constant speed of 15 kmph.

When i am driving in real bumper to bumper traffic, and when downshifting from 3rd to 2nd i feel like the car is lugging as soon as speed falls below 15 kmph and a feeling that it will stall when the speed falls to 10 kmph. I also feel like the car is not ready to go below the 15 kmph mark in the second gear and the problem is also that i am not able to downshift to the first gear unless i fall below the 5 kmph mark which i feel is an ok behaviour. So the speed band between 15 and 5 kmph is the problem zone which i do not know how to handle and i call the '1.5th gear' zone.

Is there a way in which the minimum achievable speed of the second gear can be adjusted. Can it be due to an issue with the 2nd gear synchro as i am facing a slight problem in upshifting to the second gear many a times. I feel a slight grind/clunk while doing so.

It has become a real pain driving with such a problem in the Delhi - Gurgaon office hour traffic and it is driving me mad !

Pls. advise on what could be the issue as i am going to a Hyundai service center for a scheduled service of 60k Kms and could ask them to check the same if i have a hint of the problematic area.

BTW, a bhpian in a white Alto waved at me near the cybercity area today morning. Sorry buddy, i was unable to reciprocate properly as i was concentrating on driving carefully due to the above issue.

Added_flavor · 7th July 2011, 22:30

I face the same issue in my verna crdi. Although I'm used to it, the frustrating part is the <clunk> every time I up shift or down shift. I had addressed this in the previous service but not much was done.

Now thinking, is this a Hyundai issue? Can Hyundai diesel owners add to this?

SushilBajpai · 7th July 2011, 22:44

This indeed is very strange behavior from a car. Is it a brand new vehicle? Are you just feeling that the car is lugging in 2nd gear at 15 kmph? In most car 1st gear is happy going till 20 kmph, and the 2nd could get down to 10 kmph.

The two figures you quote, zero accelerator 1st gear speed of 7.5 kmph and 2nd gear speed of 15 kmph appears to be fine. If first gear settles to 7.5 without throttle input, why do think that you can only drive at 5 kmph in it?

Why not go to the dealer and borrow their demo mule to check if that too behaves in a similar fashion. If it does then you perhaps need to adjust your driving style!

phamilyman · 7th July 2011, 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamal.sn

Is there a way in which the minimum achievable speed of the second gear can be adjusted.

No, unless its just changed recently.

I have given up on the crawl speeds of diesel vehicles completely.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ml#post1403696

my mom's alto CNG crawls beautifully.
the aside is that it crawls even with full accelerator

anandpadhye · 8th July 2011, 00:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by phamilyman

my mom's alto CNG crawls beautifully.
the aside is that it crawls even with full accelerator

hahaha

. What a way to put it.

Yes, Tucson gear ratios are poorly chosen. I feel 2nd and 3rd are way apart. On the contrary I love the 15kmph crawl in the second - I use it very effectively in Pune traffic which can be mild compared to Gurgaon (?).

Why don't you crawl in 1st with just a little accelerator input at times - if traffic in your area is so heavy that it's catching Tucson on the wrong foot?

Tucson has a heavy clutch with longer travel...take care of your left knee...

phamilyman · 8th July 2011, 07:05

I was talking of clutch travel in my swift vdi. no tucson in my garage *sigh*

anilisanil · 8th July 2011, 12:43

Why not try to be in first gear for these speeds? I completely understand what you are saying, but it would still be possible to be in first gear for those speeds albeit you face a lot of engine braking. I think there is no easy way out for this

dhanushs · 8th July 2011, 13:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamal.sn

when downshifting from 3rd to 2nd i feel like the car is lugging as soon as speed falls below 15 kmph and a feeling that it will stall when the speed falls to 10 kmph.

1st off was the car like this always?. Do other Tuscons too behave the same way?. If yes, its not exactly a problem to solve. Just poorly matched gear ratios.

Again, if yes, change your driving style according to your car. ie, in this case, while down shifting, if you feel that speed is too low for 2nd gear, then reduce it a bit more, and use the 1st gear. If you are in a really tight situation, then create the half gear using clutch. Though a bad practice, nothing much can be done.

anandpadhye · 8th July 2011, 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by phamilyman

I was talking of clutch travel in my swift vdi. no tucson in my garage *sigh*

Clutch travel in Swift DDIS is nice and short - it's horrible in the Tucson.

Quote:

Originally Posted by anilisanil

Why not try to be in first gear for these speeds? I completely understand what you are saying, but it would still be possible to be in first gear for those speeds albeit you face a lot of engine braking. I think there is no easy way out for this

Ditto.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhanushs

1st off was the car like this always?. Do other Tuscons too behave the same way?. If yes, its not exactly a problem to solve. Just poorly matched gear ratios.

Yes, it's a design issue - the gear ratios in the Tucson are very very poorly matched

. Add to that a long traveling and relatively hard clutch pedal and you are setting yourself up to meet an orthopaedic soon

. Better to drive in first - even if it means having to unfortunately revv at times - than to ride the clutch in the second.

Rehaan · 8th July 2011, 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamal.sn

In the first gear, without me pushing the throttle, the car does a constant ~ 7.5 kmph. In the second gear, the car moves at a constant speed of 15 kmph.

What RPM does your car IDLE at? Do you feel its idling faster than required?

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamal.sn

... the problem is also that i am not able to downshift to the first gear unless i fall below the 5 kmph mark which i feel is an ok behaviour.

You should be able to downshift into first at any reasonable speed, even 40km/h. Its just the way in which you do it that makes a difference (ofcourse, combined with the attributes of that particular gearbox).

Read a little about revv-matching and double clutching in these threads :

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/collec...eason-use.html

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...nge-gears.html

cya
R

ilangop · 8th July 2011, 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamal.sn

When i am driving in real bumper to bumper traffic, and when downshifting from 3rd to 2nd i feel like the car is lugging as soon as speed falls below 15 kmph and a feeling that it will stall when the speed falls to 10 kmph. I also feel like the car is not ready to go below the 15 kmph mark in the second gear and the problem is also that i am not able to downshift to the first gear unless i fall below the 5 kmph mark which i feel is an ok behaviour. So the speed band between 15 and 5 kmph is the problem zone which i do not know how to handle and i call the '1.5th gear' zone.

Is there a way in which the minimum achievable speed of the second gear can be adjusted. Can it be due to an issue with the 2nd gear synchro as i am facing a slight problem in upshifting to the second gear many a times. I feel a slight grind/clunk while doing so.

Try racing the engine a little (gently tap the acc pedal) while downshifting from 2nd to first at speeds between 5 & 15kmph. Hope the downshifting becomes smoother while you do the gear shifting by closely synchronizing the engine speed to the range desirable for the synchro to slide smoothly and get latched.

IndigoXLGrandDi · 8th July 2011, 19:00

I dont think this is problem since I am facing same issue with our Indigos and Xylo.
WHILE Downshifting from 2nd to 1st, the 1st gear does not get engaged when the speed of the car is "more than" that of 1st gear is designed to engage. This is because the Engineers design the 1st Gear thinking that the Chauffeur will engage the 1st gear only when the car comes to complete stop (the car is stationary). That is why the 1st gear gets engaged when the speed is <10kph.
This happens even when the car is new.

Aroy · 12th July 2011, 21:04

Try to be in first gear at very low speeds. In my Alto K10 with AC on I have to downshift to first gear in a stop and go traffic below 20 kmph, else the car tends to stall. Without AC it is fine.

In practically all gearboxes, the first gear has straight teeth and not helical ones. This means that the first gear will be difficult to engage at higher speeds (you may even strip the teeth if you are too high a speed and the teeth do not mesh properly). Depending on the design and manufacturer, engaging first gear may range from annoying to extremely difficult at higher speeds.

On both my Esteem and Alto K10, I have engaged first gears at speeds above 20 kmph while downshifting, and there is no problem.

kamal.sn · 12th July 2011, 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by SushilBajpai

...The two figures you quote, zero accelerator 1st gear speed of 7.5 kmph and 2nd gear speed of 15 kmph appears to be fine. If first gear settles to 7.5 without throttle input, why do think that you can only drive at 5 kmph in it?..

I didnt mean that i am able to only drive at 5 kmph in the first gear. The problem is that when i am in the second gear and the car speed falls to say 10 kmph and when i experience the stalling feeling, i am not able to downshift to first at that speed but only when the speed falls to <= 5 kmph.

Isnt there any setting which is available on the idle control valve ? Also i have only noticed this after i have got the clutch replaced. Could it be due to a faulty clutch ?

One more observation..when the car is idling in the first or second gear, say the second gear at 15 kmph and i brake a bit without pressing the clutch pedal and release the brakes, the car speed increases to 20 kmph and the falls to 15 kmph. Is this normal ?

AlphaKilo · 13th July 2011, 14:39

can you exactly define your stalling characteristic? Does the engine behaves like its being lugged or the engine coughs? If it lugs, it may not be the gear issue rather rather just a little throttle(increase the RPM a bit). If it is coughing, check it with the service centre. As said by many it may be because of the poor ratio match. Btw by any chance is yours a 4x4 with HH, HL, LL settings? If so, check if you have them in correct setting for normal driving!

7th July 2011, 22:16	#1
kamal.sn BHPian Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: New Delhi Posts: 149 Thanked: 88 Times	I have lost the '1.5th Gear' of my Tucson - Pls. help me find it I have lost the 1.5th Gear in My Tucson, request all BHPians to help me find the same ! Sorry, Jokes apart, I am facing a peculiar problem in my Tucson. In the first gear, without me pushing the throttle, the car does a constant ~ 7.5 kmph. In the second gear, the car moves at a constant speed of 15 kmph. When i am driving in real bumper to bumper traffic, and when downshifting from 3rd to 2nd i feel like the car is lugging as soon as speed falls below 15 kmph and a feeling that it will stall when the speed falls to 10 kmph. I also feel like the car is not ready to go below the 15 kmph mark in the second gear and the problem is also that i am not able to downshift to the first gear unless i fall below the 5 kmph mark which i feel is an ok behaviour. So the speed band between 15 and 5 kmph is the problem zone which i do not know how to handle and i call the '1.5th gear' zone. Is there a way in which the minimum achievable speed of the second gear can be adjusted. Can it be due to an issue with the 2nd gear synchro as i am facing a slight problem in upshifting to the second gear many a times. I feel a slight grind/clunk while doing so. It has become a real pain driving with such a problem in the Delhi - Gurgaon office hour traffic and it is driving me mad ! Pls. advise on what could be the issue as i am going to a Hyundai service center for a scheduled service of 60k Kms and could ask them to check the same if i have a hint of the problematic area. BTW, a bhpian in a white Alto waved at me near the cybercity area today morning. Sorry buddy, i was unable to reciprocate properly as i was concentrating on driving carefully due to the above issue. Last edited by kamal.sn : 7th July 2011 at 22:19.
	(1) Thanks

7th July 2011, 22:30	#2
Added_flavor BHPian Join Date: May 2011 Location: Bangalore Posts: 844 Thanked: 2,782 Times View My Garage	I face the same issue in my verna crdi. Although I'm used to it, the frustrating part is the <clunk> every time I up shift or down shift. I had addressed this in the previous service but not much was done. Now thinking, is this a Hyundai issue? Can Hyundai diesel owners add to this?
	() Thanks

7th July 2011, 22:44	#3
SushilBajpai BHPian Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Pune/Lasham Posts: 266 Thanked: 246 Times	Re: I have lost the '1.5th Gear' of my Tucson - Pls. help me find it This indeed is very strange behavior from a car. Is it a brand new vehicle? Are you just feeling that the car is lugging in 2nd gear at 15 kmph? In most car 1st gear is happy going till 20 kmph, and the 2nd could get down to 10 kmph. The two figures you quote, zero accelerator 1st gear speed of 7.5 kmph and 2nd gear speed of 15 kmph appears to be fine. If first gear settles to 7.5 without throttle input, why do think that you can only drive at 5 kmph in it? Why not go to the dealer and borrow their demo mule to check if that too behaves in a similar fashion. If it does then you perhaps need to adjust your driving style!
	() Thanks

8th July 2011, 07:05	#6
phamilyman Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Gurgaon Posts: 5,968 Thanked: 4,642 Times	Re: I have lost the '1.5th Gear' of my Tucson - Pls. help me find it I was talking of clutch travel in my swift vdi. no tucson in my garage sigh
	() Thanks

8th July 2011, 12:43	#7
anilisanil Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Pune Posts: 1,420 Thanked: 291 Times	Re: I have lost the '1.5th Gear' of my Tucson - Pls. help me find it Why not try to be in first gear for these speeds? I completely understand what you are saying, but it would still be possible to be in first gear for those speeds albeit you face a lot of engine braking. I think there is no easy way out for this
	() Thanks

8th July 2011, 19:00	#12
IndigoXLGrandDi Senior - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Solapur (MH-13) Posts: 1,785 Thanked: 571 Times	Re: I have lost the '1.5th Gear' of my Tucson - Pls. help me find it I dont think this is problem since I am facing same issue with our Indigos and Xylo. WHILE Downshifting from 2nd to 1st, the 1st gear does not get engaged when the speed of the car is "more than" that of 1st gear is designed to engage. This is because the Engineers design the 1st Gear thinking that the Chauffeur will engage the 1st gear only when the car comes to complete stop (the car is stationary). That is why the 1st gear gets engaged when the speed is <10kph. This happens even when the car is new. Last edited by IndigoXLGrandDi : 8th July 2011 at 19:04.
	() Thanks

12th July 2011, 21:04	#13
Aroy Senior - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Delhi Posts: 2,582 Thanked: 2,747 Times View My Garage	Re: I have lost the '1.5th Gear' of my Tucson - Pls. help me find it Try to be in first gear at very low speeds. In my Alto K10 with AC on I have to downshift to first gear in a stop and go traffic below 20 kmph, else the car tends to stall. Without AC it is fine. In practically all gearboxes, the first gear has straight teeth and not helical ones. This means that the first gear will be difficult to engage at higher speeds (you may even strip the teeth if you are too high a speed and the teeth do not mesh properly). Depending on the design and manufacturer, engaging first gear may range from annoying to extremely difficult at higher speeds. On both my Esteem and Alto K10, I have engaged first gears at speeds above 20 kmph while downshifting, and there is no problem.
	() Thanks

13th July 2011, 14:39	#15
AlphaKilo Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: VOMM-EDDW-EDDM Posts: 1,162 Thanked: 1,188 Times View My Garage	Re: I have lost the '1.5th Gear' of my Tucson - Pls. help me find it can you exactly define your stalling characteristic? Does the engine behaves like its being lugged or the engine coughs? If it lugs, it may not be the gear issue rather rather just a little throttle(increase the RPM a bit). If it is coughing, check it with the service centre. As said by many it may be because of the poor ratio match. Btw by any chance is yours a 4x4 with HH, HL, LL settings? If so, check if you have them in correct setting for normal driving!
	() Thanks