Idling the Turbo engines before switching off.. Could this be a solution?

DRC · 4th April 2006, 15:59

Mod Note : Please continue the discussion in our Turbos & Idling Article. Thanks

I am thinking aloud..
We hear about a lotta turbo failures and necessity to idle the engine before switch off for the reason that MI of the turbo will be spinning it even after its work is over and oil supply should be on for it to keep it from failing.. This in deed a problem.

How about this idea. Can we mod the oil circuitry by routing it to be supplied by an electrical pump instead of the engine. And, provide an electroninc delay to switch this off after a while after the engine is switched off.

To me it looks simple. Any comments?

NikN · 4th April 2006, 16:23

Turbo Timers Ahoy !
The number one cause of turbo failure is oil "coking". Oil "coking" occurs when a turbocharger is not properly cooled down and the oil that normally lubricates the center cartridge heats up and forms solidified oil deposits. A turbo timer allows an engine to idle for a preset time after the ignition key has been turned to the off position and removed. --- By allowing a turbocharged engine to idle, oil continues to pass through the turbo until it has cooled down to the point where oil "coking" will not occur. In 1982 HKS was the first company to offer a commercially available turbo timer, and has since been the leader in turbo timer technology.

Sourced from the HKS website... I have one installed in my benz and scorpio.. works great.

Boom Shiva · 4th April 2006, 16:24

Just get yourself a turbo timer bro. It's a little unit that keeps the engine idling for a couple of minutes after you switch off the ignition. Should fix all your problems.

DRC · 4th April 2006, 16:30

Guys I am not trying to solve my problem... I do not have a turbo engine at all

But, we are talking about the turbo timer which keeps the engine ON. My thought is to why the engine should be on why not some small electric pump doing the job. Why do we have to run an entire engine of several horses to run a small oil pump?

NikN · 4th April 2006, 16:34

Severe battery drain ? just a thought. my benz is dead again with a flat lined battery. :( or some other damn fault. i wouldnt even think of running something offa battery when it isnt charging. too exp to charge / replace the batteries .. i would say let the damn engine run for a minute; its cheaper ?
any ideas on alternate power sources ?

DRC · 4th April 2006, 17:20

OK Point taken,
Concern 1: fear of battery drain..

any other thoughts gurus

TruPsi · 5th April 2006, 00:46

Oil pumps on most car are tied to the motor via the timing belt or timing chain. At that point the entire motor must be rotated in order for the pump to operate.

-Brian

kb100 · 5th April 2006, 00:56

I Have a turbo - and I always make it a point ot idle for at least 30 secs once I start... and the same when I shut down... and idle at least for more than a couple of minutes after every hard session of driving - highways etc..

I feel there are a lot of ppl out there who have no "turbo-manners"... and they walk around spreading word not to buy a vehicle because its prone to 'Turbo Failure' after 40k kms!!

karthik247 · 5th April 2006, 01:15

Idling is THE best daily solution to make ur turbo last. No harm in idling for arnd 30s after starting and before stopping.

I think switching on the AC 'immediately' also has its problems, is it really true?

Akkiben · 5th April 2006, 06:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by karthik247

Idling is THE best daily solution to make ur turbo last. No harm in idling for arnd 30s after starting and before stopping.

I think switching on the AC 'immediately' also has its problems, is it really true?

Actually switching on the AC immediatley without warming the vehicle is harmful for all vehicles be it with or without 'Turbo'.

DRC · 5th April 2006, 12:31

Again, I am trying to discuss an innovative solution to a limitation.
I know it is best to idle for a while before switching off, but untill we have a solution something better.

To be more specific, if we can develop a system which uses some other means to run the lub to turbo other than the engine, how could we do.

My thought is an electric pump. How should it be designed.

1. All lub running on electric pump,
2. Hybrid Tandem electric and engine, electric kicking in when engine shuts off
3. Keep the engine running by some elctronic gimmick (this exists)

If we were to design an electric/hybrid what is the kind of pressure we have to build. How much power is required, How to build redundacy so that electric failure does not screw up the turbo,

Come on guys, think out of the box. I appreciate you all follow the good practice written in the manuals

Boom Shiva · 5th April 2006, 14:56

I guess you could stand over the turbo with a can of oil and gently croon it to sleep

You did say, "think out of the box"

DRC · 5th April 2006, 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boom Shiva

I guess you could stand over the turbo with a can of oil and gently croon it to sleep

You did say, "think out of the box"

Good one, out of the box, not over the turbo

Deeps · 5th April 2006, 20:48

How about keeping the revvs below the activation point of the turbo for the last 2-3km before you reach the destination? Will this be sufficient to cool down the turbo without having to idle for a minute or so? This is city driving. ignore highway driving for a moment.

NikN, your MB didn't come with with an OE turb-timer? And how much do these cost to get retro-fitted?

karthik247 · 5th April 2006, 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deeps

How about keeping the revvs below the activation point of the turbo for the last 2-3km before you reach the destination?

This maybe possible in an Indica or so, but in most cars its impossible i think.
I say this cuz my car's idles at 900rpm where as the turbo kicks in at arnd 1200rpm. No way u can play with just 300rpm that too for a full kilometer..

4th April 2006, 15:59	#1
DRC BHPian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cockpit Posts: 911 Thanked: 64 Times View My Garage	Idling the Turbo engines before switching off.. Could this be a solution? Mod Note : Please continue the discussion in our Turbos & Idling Article. Thanks I am thinking aloud.. We hear about a lotta turbo failures and necessity to idle the engine before switch off for the reason that MI of the turbo will be spinning it even after its work is over and oil supply should be on for it to keep it from failing.. This in deed a problem. How about this idea. Can we mod the oil circuitry by routing it to be supplied by an electrical pump instead of the engine. And, provide an electroninc delay to switch this off after a while after the engine is switched off. To me it looks simple. Any comments? Last edited by GTO : 28th January 2013 at 22:54. Reason: Adding link to turbo article
	() Thanks

4th April 2006, 16:23	#2
NikN BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 65 Thanked: Once View My Garage	Turbo Timers Ahoy ! The number one cause of turbo failure is oil "coking". Oil "coking" occurs when a turbocharger is not properly cooled down and the oil that normally lubricates the center cartridge heats up and forms solidified oil deposits. A turbo timer allows an engine to idle for a preset time after the ignition key has been turned to the off position and removed. --- By allowing a turbocharged engine to idle, oil continues to pass through the turbo until it has cooled down to the point where oil "coking" will not occur. In 1982 HKS was the first company to offer a commercially available turbo timer, and has since been the leader in turbo timer technology. Sourced from the HKS website... I have one installed in my benz and scorpio.. works great.
	() Thanks

4th April 2006, 16:24	#3
Boom Shiva BANNED Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,055 Thanked: 18 Times	Just get yourself a turbo timer bro. It's a little unit that keeps the engine idling for a couple of minutes after you switch off the ignition. Should fix all your problems.
	() Thanks

4th April 2006, 16:30	#4
DRC BHPian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cockpit Posts: 911 Thanked: 64 Times View My Garage	Guys I am not trying to solve my problem... I do not have a turbo engine at all But, we are talking about the turbo timer which keeps the engine ON. My thought is to why the engine should be on why not some small electric pump doing the job. Why do we have to run an entire engine of several horses to run a small oil pump?
	() Thanks

4th April 2006, 16:34	#5
NikN BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 65 Thanked: Once View My Garage	Severe battery drain ? just a thought. my benz is dead again with a flat lined battery. :( or some other damn fault. i wouldnt even think of running something offa battery when it isnt charging. too exp to charge / replace the batteries .. i would say let the damn engine run for a minute; its cheaper ? any ideas on alternate power sources ?
	() Thanks

4th April 2006, 17:20	#6
DRC BHPian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cockpit Posts: 911 Thanked: 64 Times View My Garage	OK Point taken, Concern 1: fear of battery drain.. any other thoughts gurus
	() Thanks

5th April 2006, 00:46	#7
TruPsi Newbie Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Charlotte, NC USA Posts: 4 Thanked: 0 Times	Oil pumps on most car are tied to the motor via the timing belt or timing chain. At that point the entire motor must be rotated in order for the pump to operate. -Brian
	() Thanks

5th April 2006, 00:56	#8
kb100 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Bangy Boy! Posts: 1,555 Thanked: 21 Times	I Have a turbo - and I always make it a point ot idle for at least 30 secs once I start... and the same when I shut down... and idle at least for more than a couple of minutes after every hard session of driving - highways etc.. I feel there are a lot of ppl out there who have no "turbo-manners"... and they walk around spreading word not to buy a vehicle because its prone to 'Turbo Failure' after 40k kms!!
	() Thanks

5th April 2006, 01:15	#9
karthik247 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: BLR, HYD Posts: 2,710 Thanked: 30 Times	Idling is THE best daily solution to make ur turbo last. No harm in idling for arnd 30s after starting and before stopping. I think switching on the AC 'immediately' also has its problems, is it really true?
	() Thanks

5th April 2006, 12:31	#11
DRC BHPian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cockpit Posts: 911 Thanked: 64 Times View My Garage	Again, I am trying to discuss an innovative solution to a limitation. I know it is best to idle for a while before switching off, but untill we have a solution something better. To be more specific, if we can develop a system which uses some other means to run the lub to turbo other than the engine, how could we do. My thought is an electric pump. How should it be designed. 1. All lub running on electric pump, 2. Hybrid Tandem electric and engine, electric kicking in when engine shuts off 3. Keep the engine running by some elctronic gimmick (this exists) If we were to design an electric/hybrid what is the kind of pressure we have to build. How much power is required, How to build redundacy so that electric failure does not screw up the turbo, Come on guys, think out of the box. I appreciate you all follow the good practice written in the manuals
	() Thanks

5th April 2006, 14:56	#12
Boom Shiva BANNED Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,055 Thanked: 18 Times	I guess you could stand over the turbo with a can of oil and gently croon it to sleep You did say, "think out of the box"
	() Thanks

5th April 2006, 20:48	#14
Deeps Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2004 Location: Delhi/Noida Posts: 1,116 Thanked: 170 Times	How about keeping the revvs below the activation point of the turbo for the last 2-3km before you reach the destination? Will this be sufficient to cool down the turbo without having to idle for a minute or so? This is city driving. ignore highway driving for a moment. NikN, your MB didn't come with with an OE turb-timer? And how much do these cost to get retro-fitted?
	() Thanks