[anantu2001]

Hi All,

I want to let you guys know what happened with our Captiva and get your feedback regarding what could have caused the problem.

It happened on the 5th of November at 2.30 PM. I was travelling on the NICE Road in our Captiva and everything seemed alright. I was at about 90 Kmph in 4th gear. I pressed the clutch to change over to the 5th gear, when suddenly the car started to vibrate a lot. Immediately, I took my left leg off the clutch pedal to check what was happening and then all of a sudden (I was in neutral all this while since I could not change the gear) the engine rpm started to rise and black smoke was coming out of the exhaust. I was in shock as I had not seen anything like this before. I then maneuvered the vehicle to the left to stop. The black smoke was still coming out of the exhaust. I then had to shut off the engine because the smoke was too much. I literally could not see anything from my Internal rear view mirror.

After the engine was shut off, the smoke reduced and it was almost like nothing had happened. I got down from the vehicle to see what was happening but could not find out anything. I opened the bonnet to check if everything was ok. Nothing seemed abnormal. Then, I sat down and tried starting the vehicle. To my horror, it didnt start. All the dials on the console were flickering. I was wondering what was happening to the car.

Then, I made some personal calls to inform them about what had happened. I then called a Chevy dealer Kropex, which is on the Hosur road and quite near to the place of the incident. They responded positively and a service team arrived to the spot within half hour. The helpful service guy Nithin checked the vehicle and said there could be a problem with the clutch and turbo. He also tried to jump start the vehicle through the battery of his service vehicle Spark, but all in vein. He then asked us to tow the vehicle till their service station as it can be thoroughly checked there. It was already 4 PM by this time. We called a private guy to tow the vehicle since Kropex doesn't have this facility themselves.

We finally reached the dealer at 5.30 PM. We contacted the service guys and this is where my bad day started turning worse. After talking to a hundred people, I still wasn't sure whether they will take the vehicle in or not. They wanted the car to be dropped outside the compound (on the busy Hosur road). I was telling them that the vehicle isn't starting and its best to leave it inside since it would be difficult for them to get the vehicle inside if the towing vehicle left. But, nobody bothered to listen. The towing guy was getting late and was insisting on dropping the vehicle outside. And, by the time I could return after talking to people, he had already dismantled everything and the vehicle was on its wheels. I could do nothing but to pay him.

The people in Kropex were in their own world, joking, chit chatting and doing all things except listening to a customer. Then after going ballistic, one Mr. Shankar came and talked to me. He was the most uninterested service guy I have ever seen in my life. I started telling him what had happened and he was cutting me in between and asking questions like - "When was the last service done?", "Have you ever come to Kropex before", "This is 30000 kms servicing and we'll change oil this time" etc etc. Basically non sense. I answered all this questions first and then told him what happened. He wasn't very receptive. He only said that they'll diagnose the problem tomorrow and give me a call. I left after hearing that.

6th Nov -

I called Mr. Shankar at about 1 PM. He told me that they still haven't touched the vehicle and that he'll call back soon.

I called again at 6 PM and the answer was the same.

7th Nov -

I called him at about 11 AM. He told me that they have taken the vehicle and said he would get back in a couple of hours. He never called back.

I called him at 6 PM again and finally they had found something. He said that they are getting a back compression from the engine and they have to register a complaint with General Motors(GM) before opening the engine. He also said that they will send the readings to GM over mail and it would take 4 to 5 days before getting their response. When asked why it should take so long, his reply was that it was standard procedure.

8th Nov - (Today)

Called him today morning to hear the same thing. I asked for a stand-by vehicle for which he refused immediately. He said Kropex doesn't provide these kind of services and its better to contact GM on this matter. This is the latest.

I am in need of help about whom to contact in GM to take this matter forward. Kropex is slow and is not responding to my questions.

First, I will give out information about the vehicle and then ask my doubts to the experts here.

Vehicle make: Chevy Captiva Extreme
Engine: 2 litre turbo-diesel, 150 BHP
Kms run: 28,500
Vehicle purchase date: 28th December 2010.
Servicing: All services are done at Chevy authorised service centres. No service schedule missed.

The warranty for the engine as told by the service guy is 50000 kms or 2 years. Now, this means the vehicle is still under warranty.

My doubts:

1. What does back compression mean? I know I can go to google, but its better explained in simple terms on T-BHP.
2. How can a vehicle with only 28,500 on the ODO develop these kind of serious problems?
3. I guess this problem is not normal. Or is it?

I am writing this in so much detail because I want all this information to be logged and present here in case of any problems at the dealer end. I also want this thread to throw light upon what could have happened and what are the necessary steps to be taken by me in future.

Awaiting your reponse.

Regards,
Anant

[revintup]

First of all, get some proof regarding the date the problem cropped up first. Your warranty is getting expired soon and we dont need any complications arising later on.

You do have some sort of official slip, right?

GM seems to be handling issues better than VW/Skoda so I believe they will take proper care of the car. All the best with the car.

[anantu2001]

Thanks revintup. Yes we had registered the complaint with them and they have officially taken the car for servicing giving us an acknowledgement.

Yesterday the service guy said that there is back compression and today he is saying that there is compression leakage. Do both these mean the same thing?

Further, Kropex says that they need permission from GM to open the engine and to overhaul it. We have contacted GM customer service directly regarding this issue and to also provide us a stand-by vehicle. Mr. Manmohan Bhaskar of the "Customer Assistance Centre" has responded immediately stating that he will ask the regional manager to intervene and take necessary steps. He has also copied the mail to Kropex.

This is the latest update. Hope things get sorted out.

Regards,
Anant

[dhanushs]

Hi Anantu,

In just ~28,000 kms I'm sure you wont be needing an engine overhaul, even if the services weren't done on time.

This is a clear case of wrong diagnosis. Please change the workshop to a more reliable one IMMEDIATELY.

By back compression, I think they mean the engine is losing compression into the crankcase. As I mentioned earlier, 28,000k is too less for this to happen. My guesses would be turbo or fuel issues. If not, as you have mentioned as the lights went flickering, this might be an electrical issue, which might have affected the FIP/ECU etc..

[subratasenn]

If this is an engine issue that would be really strange to happen at 28,500 km. Another one lakh km more, it would have been possible.

Having said that, if this is an engine issue and the vehicle is under warranty, why just a simple overhaul? Why wouldn't GM replace the engine free of cost? They seemed to be keen on changing the engine to of an Optra of a fellow T-BHPian when the car developed this kind of a problem.
Check this thread http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ra-magnum.html

Now, if they were insisting on an engine replacement on that car, you should be getting your engine replaced in warranty free of cost, not a simple overhaul. Ask GM about this.

[itwasntme]

I have had a similar 'completely uninterested in my car' experience with Kropex with my Cruze.

My advice is that unless Chevrolet Customer Care gets proactively involved ASAP, please arrange for a tow truck and take your vehicle to Trident for a second opinion.

[anantu2001]

Originally Posted by dhanushs

Hi Anantu,

In just ~28,000 kms I'm sure you wont be needing an engine overhaul, even if the services weren't done on time.

This is a clear case of wrong diagnosis. Please change the workshop to a more reliable one IMMEDIATELY.

By back compression, I think they mean the engine is losing compression into the crankcase. As I mentioned earlier, 28,000k is too less for this to happen. My guesses would be turbo or fuel issues. If not, as you have mentioned as the lights went flickering, this might be an electrical issue, which might have affected the FIP/ECU etc..

Thanks dhanushs for your feedback. Yes, they said it is a case of compression leakage. Even I am wondering how such a new vehicle can develop these kind of problems. Can it happen that there might be some manufacturing defect which is showing up now?? I'm just thinking out loud..

Originally Posted by subratasenn

If this is an engine issue that would be really strange to happen at 28,500 km. Another one lakh km more, it would have been possible.

Having said that, if this is an engine issue and the vehicle is under warranty, why just a simple overhaul? Why wouldn't GM replace the engine free of cost? They seemed to be keen on changing the engine to of an Optra of a fellow T-BHPian when the car developed this kind of a problem.
Check this thread http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ra-magnum.html

Now, if they were insisting on an engine replacement on that car, you should be getting your engine replaced in warranty free of cost, not a simple overhaul. Ask GM about this.

Thanks subratasenn. Yes, in our mail to GM we have asked for two things. One is a stand-by vehicle and the other most important thing is replacement of the entire engine since it is under warranty. Why should anybody accept an overhauled engine which has run only for about 28,500 kms.

Thanks for the link. I will read it right away and look up for things which can help me build a strong case for replacement of the engine.

Originally Posted by itwasntme

I have had a similar 'completely uninterested in my car' experience with Kropex with my Cruze.

My advice is that unless Chevrolet Customer Care gets proactively involved ASAP, please arrange for a tow truck and take your vehicle to Trident for a second opinion.

Yes itwasntme, they are least bothered to attend to customers. Till date, they haven't called themselves to update us. It is always us who calls them to get an update. Will check the possibility of taking an second opinion. Thanks.

Its been 6 days now, and after writing mails to GM, talking to Kropex numerous times, we haven't received any positive feedback. Nor is GM replying to mails, nor have we received a stand-by vehicle, nor do we know what the actual problem is. We will be visiting Kropex today, and if we do not get any response, we would move the vehicle to Trident for a second opinion.

Thanks,
Anant

[Guna]

Originally Posted by itwasntme

I have had a similar 'completely uninterested in my car' experience with Kropex with my Cruze.

My advice is that unless Chevrolet Customer Care gets proactively involved ASAP, please arrange for a tow truck and take your vehicle to Trident for a second opinion.

Kropex seems to be an incompetent service station. I had a terrible experience as well. They asked me to bring my car with a broken exhaust and when I eventually did, they refused to fix the problem (as a policy they would not do quick fixes like welding) and nor could they locate the part in the system for ordering the part. I had to drive back wit the broken exhaust pipe.

[Jaggu]

Back pressure means there is some compression leakage, can be due to a bad piston ring combo or a worn out cylinder. They need to first check if there was any oil deprivation, which is usually the case if there was a sudden appearance of the issue.

Regarding engine smoke, it can be caused due to a blown turbo plumbing also. Apart from any fuel rail issues.

Do you remember how much the RPM raise to?

[anantu2001]

Originally Posted by Guna

Kropex seems to be an incompetent service station. I had a terrible experience as well. They asked me to bring my car with a broken exhaust and when I eventually did, they refused to fix the problem (as a policy they would not do quick fixes like welding) and nor could they locate the part in the system for ordering the part. I had to drive back wit the broken exhaust pipe.

Thanks Guna for your feedback. Fortunately, GM is now responding positively and have agreed to change the engine in the coming days after few tests on the old engine.

Originally Posted by Jaggu

Back pressure means there is some compression leakage, can be due to a bad piston ring combo or a worn out cylinder. They need to first check if there was any oil deprivation, which is usually the case if there was a sudden appearance of the issue.

Regarding engine smoke, it can be caused due to a blown turbo plumbing also. Apart from any fuel rail issues.

Do you remember how much the RPM raise to?

Thanks Jaggu. Yes, this was a sudden incident with no clues what so ever. If I remember correctly, the engine RPM was close to 5000 rpm. But, at that instance, I was more shocked to see the smoke in the rear view mirror than to observe the engine rpm. Must be between 5000 to 6000 rpm.

Regards,
Anant

[Jaggu]

Ok 5000 Rpm not good at all, hope it was not a malfunction at throttle leading to this and inturn causing damage to block, piston, rings. Do you have any further updated from Chevy?

[subratasenn]

I wanted to ask one question here, don't know whether I sound stupid or not. A car is identified with its engine and chasis numbers. What happens if an engine is changed in this kind of a scenario when you are changing the engine? Is the RC smart card corrected, or the engine number has nothing to do with the engine at all?

[Catalyst_delhi]

Originally Posted by anantu2001

Thanks Guna for your feedback. Fortunately, GM is now responding positively and have agreed to change the engine in the coming days after few tests on the old engine.



Thanks Jaggu. Yes, this was a sudden incident with no clues what so ever. If I remember correctly, the engine RPM was close to 5000 rpm. But, at that instance, I was more shocked to see the smoke in the rear view mirror than to observe the engine rpm. Must be between 5000 to 6000 rpm.

Regards,
Anant

5000RPM looks a tad too high. I am wondering if the VSS(vehicle speed sensor) or some tech similar was faulty and was providing too much diesel thinking the car was going at 5000 RPM. 5k RPM in my ikon would be almost redline in a petrol. In a diesel I would expect 4k to be a safe number.

I think you should go read codes first , check all plumbing and FIP and also test compression.

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by subratasenn

=== A car is identified with its engine and chasis numbers.===Is the RC smart card corrected, or the engine number has nothing to do with the engine at all?

Yes you need to endorse the new engine number in the RC if the block (usually the place where the number is), is changed.

[Leop]

'the dials on the console were flickering'; did this happed every time you tried to start the engine or only the once? If there is a compression leak, have they identified which cylinder or cylinder(s)? Have they given you the reading? Generally, a compression leak in a single cylinder should not stop an engine from starting. Have they agreed to change the ecu and engine wiring as well?